Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Why dont you open your own burger joint and pay your employees 10 bucks an hour?

Im not big in the restaurant industry but I will say this look at McDonalds first quarter earnings. It was around a billion dollars. The way I see it if McDonalds paid their employees an extra dollar an hour it would cost around $223 million a quarter. That still leaves them with huge profits and making the average pay for your entry level worker at around $8.50 an hour or so. Not exactly living wages but that extra $50 or so a week does make a difference to poor people like that.

So if you woke up tomm and EVERYWHERE paid 4/hr for unskilled work and college educated people averaged 7 bucks a hour youd be cool with that?

After all this is america these businesses can pay what they want.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So your telling the toilet scrubbers to stop complaining?

Haha what a joke. This thread is utterly pointless.

Why dont you rich folks stop complaining? You have everything yet you still have to open your mouth and talk bad on those who have nothing.

You deserve to clean toilets for a living buddy, then you will see the Truth of reality for once.

What are you trying to say about toilet scrubbbers?

I work in a hotel in NYC where "toilet scrubbers" (they do other things too besides scrubbing toilets) make $19-$24 per hour.

The point the original poster was trying to make is that if you can't afford to live on minimum wage then do something about it, like get a better job or don't have children you can't afford.

here is the real reality of it in Canada

they make $1300 approx a month minimum wage is around 8.00$ an hour
food is free from the local meals on wheels charity
clothes is free from charity
medical bills free
dental free
vision care free

they live in an apartment with 3 or 4 others who share the cost

and in the end have enough for a trip to Vegas once a year
The rest of the year they moan about needing more.

People on state assistance or Welfare get 550 a month salary
free medical
free vision
free dental
free food
free clothes
and they too moan that it is not enough

Originally posted by solo1
here is the real reality of it in Canada

they make $1300 approx a month minimum wage is around 8.00$ an hour
food is free from the local meals on wheels charity
clothes is free from charity
medical bills free
dental free
vision care free

they live in an apartment with 3 or 4 others who share the cost

and in the end have enough for a trip to Vegas once a year
The rest of the year they moan about needing more.

People on state assistance or Welfare get 550 a month salary
free medical
free vision
free dental
free food
free clothes
and they too moan that it is not enough

Hmmm.... do they moan to you personally?...well...here in Washington state the assistance program gives $318 per month...medical is paid for however getting the referrals to hospitals that can perform needed treatment takes time - so one has to have patience...I am on the waiting list for section 8 housing and that takes time sometimes years to get into - right now I have friends who are sheltering me, and bless them for that....I am very high functioning - my disability is physical not mental- and those who have less functionality are higher priority as it should be...Vision and dental is not covered...I do receive food stamps - $150 per month and that is perfect for one person...I full expect my situation to change for the better eventually...and in any case I stay productive - click my signature link - My Music - thats my skill - and the CD is available by the way...I'm on keyboard and vocals

I know others who are in the same boat as me and I can tell you we do not moan...we are thankful and grateful that someone gives a rats A$$ ...you should get to know some of us...


[edit on 26-7-2008 by realshanti]

reply to post by Rockpuck


I learned economics from the economists. Sometimes, there are simple economic facts of life. Inflation is a economic fact of life. Cyclical recessions are a economic fact of life. Minimum wage harms everyone is a economic fact of life.

The difference here is those who support the minimum wage do so under the guise of trying to "help" people when in reality all they are doing is hurting them. But, as the population is generally too dumb to figure out economics, a majority of people go along with it because having a minimum wage and raising it "feels good." Its a simple solution that appeals to the dumb masses, and they embrace it in all their ignorance.

If anyone cared about the minimum wage, they wouldn't support it. All the data show it hurts everyone from the minimum wage earner all the way up to the top. In the absence of the minimum wage, wages increase across the board. But you see, this is complex. This takes looking at the data, and understanding of the complex factors involved. It isn't politically expedient. It won't get you political capital.

The data do indeed show that raising the minimum wage will raise core inflation to match the increase over time, making the buying power of the increase void. This is because the minimum wage represents artificial market manipulation, which the market combats by inflation.

The fact that most companies pay above minimum wage proves absolutely nothing. Minimum wage in fact impacts almost no one, but there are certain sectors of the economy where it is more prudent to pay minimum wage instead of paying people what they are worth. It takes a certain combination of the skills involved in the job and low profit margins to make minimum wage something that an employer chooses to pay. They pay it willingly though, because the dirty secret is that if no minimum wage were in place they'd have to pay so much more.

Supporting the minimum wage is siding with the corporations. Its falling directly into where they want to be. They know minimum wages cost them less than not having one.

Private profits, socialized debt is a mantra that is simply false. Its used by populists to stir up fear and anger in the masses. The reality is that debt is always socialized when it reaches a breaking point. In the free market if a company reaches a certain level of debt it goes under, spreading its impacts to all corners of the market. That is the way the free market works. Currently instead of letting the debt spread to all corners and take everyone down at once, the government has decided the cost to bail someone out is less than the negative economic impacts that would occur. Concurrently, profit is shared in the free market - it is not private. High profits expand throughout the economy and increase standards of living.

By the way, current inflation is around 3-4%. 15% is a number doom and gloomers only hope and pray for, its a number they want to believe to further the doom and gloom narrative. Certain ITEMS may have that kind of increase, but that is not inflation - its supply and demand and its only in certain narrow sectors. Raising the minimum wage will cause it to go 5-6%, or more.

I find it so funny that those supporting the minimum wage try to act like they are being passionate humanitarians, all the while supporting Big Business policies and a policy that directly and indisputably represses the poor. If anyone is being humanitarian here, it is those who go against the minimum wage.

Id just like to point out for arguments sake that in Australia as a 18yr old on the "award wage" (which is the base wage that anyone can earn, including even highschool dropouts) is between $15 and $18 a hour no matter the profession.

During college i worked a 28hour week and made somewhere in the region of $1000/month after tax.

A 15year old in their first job at just about any where will earn around $6.50 a hour.

I hadn't noticed all the posters who said those of us who can see (that minimum wage isn't going to cut out the complaining and is only going to serve in being a catalyst to more problems which in essence will equal more complainers wanting even more handed to them) are only saying these things because we are rich. maybe some on here (I know of at least one) make higher than mid income but just like that one, they worked to get there.

They didn't just wake up one day and they were rich. In fact, aren't there quite a few testimonies of ppl on here that started out with SEVERAL disadvantages but instead of complaining that they weren't being given enough, used that thing in their head for what it was actually made for and turned their life around?

I have been called "one of the lucky one's" or "one of those advantaged ppl" because of my views on these sorts of things and that is a major misconception being made by those who claim to be denying ignorance. I hold to my views because I was NOT one of the advantaged ones, well, not always and unless I help to bring some awareness to the importance of self responsibility, then I will have a harder time maintaining what I have worked so hard for, both for me and my sons bc I will continue to be one of the ones picking up the slack for others.

Now, I kind of wanted to give my perspective on the following post, and although I am not sure that it will help to change other's views, I am at least trying to get someone from the other side of this perspective to answer some questions that are valid questions.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Solarskye

 

Minimum wage is not enough to live on still.

People do not whine and complain when movie stars and CEO's earn the tens of millions of dollars (now come on is anyone really worth that amount of money) but people whine and complain when the people who do the real work, the people who god bless them are there everyday to serve us our McDonald's ( How much does the CEO at McDonald's make?)

The movie stars are being paid by the people that are complaining though. Movie Stars aren't just pulling money out of their arses ya know. I will say that I agree the amounts of money they are making are insane, but that says more about the ppl in our society and where their interests are. They are the ones paying for the movie tickets, the dvd's, the products that are being put out from the movie stars, etc. So, to blame those that would manipulate the public when the public is so easily manipulated and quite honestly doesn't care to step out of that manipulation is pointless.

That is this world. Yes, there are those that manipulate, but they can only manipulate so long as the people below stay ignorant and continue to rely on them, whether it is for entertainment, money, or to call the shots for them.

I actually have been in a seemingly WORSE situation than most of the examples being cited on here as "those poor ppl can't help themselves" types. I was one of the ones that you all would be feeling sorry for. The single mom w/ two kids living in a place barely fit for a dog bc she was left w/ nothing from her ex financially; had no phone; a car that sometimes worked, sometimes didn't; and the nearest job was about 5 miles away (hardly an easy walk in the hill country lol).

The jobs that I had once qualified for 5 yrs prior to the birth of my first son were now unavailable to me because I didn't speak spanish. I applied at Walmart but was told that I would have to be willing to work any hours (which is hard when I couldn't even afford daycare), and on and on I could go w/ the same sob story as many others.

Instead of complaining and giving up to blame society for "holding me down," I started searching for alternative ways to bring in money that would allow me to be here for my kids. I stuck to it w/ determination and hard work. I got ideas from business owner friends (not help financially or anything of the sort, just ideas) to bring in my own money. I don't have to rely on the companies any more to tell me when I will work or how much I will get paid.

You are not going to get rid of the greedy people, and especially not by relying on THEM to "fix" your situations.

Quit having so little faith in those who don't have much. Quit insulting them and acting like your pity is going to do any good for them. Be blunt and tell them "YOU CAN MAKE SOMETHING BETTER OF YOURSELF bc you ARE smart and I DO believe in you!!"

Some of you are very snotty in your presentation of how you view those of us who climbed our way out from the bottom and you are sickening in your view of ppl that have less. You act like you are their hero instead of encouraging them to be their own hero. In essence you are encouraging them to rely on someone/thing else rather than teaching them that they don't have to settle if they just get inventive and quit relying.

Instead of complaining about minimum wages going up start complaining about the folks making so much money they can't spend it all in several life times. Minimum wage at present is still not enough to live on.[edit on 26-7-2008 by ofhumandescent]

this is a statement that I am baffled by. Why would I get so mad at ppl that have so much money that they can't spend it all in several lifetimes? MOST of the ones you are talking about have obtained their money because the ones that you are "defending" keep wasting their MW on these ppl's entertainment and products rather than putting their money into something more productive to get them off the "bottom rung" MW jobs.

Stop holding ppl back by pitying them.. Encourage them to live up to their potential.

I can list out a whole mess of things ppl can do for themselves and make a VERY decent living at. They won't have to rely on anyone to set schedules FOR them...... they would be their own boss. I have a long list because I use my most importabt marketable asset....... my brain!! Should the things I am doing now stop bringing in revenue, I have many back up plans. Teach ppl to be smart, not to continue to live in ignorance by relying on others.


[edit on 26-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by Skipper1975


Odd, you post a link to something that claims to want to bring back Constitutional law, yet you also support raising minimum wage and "ending poverty", both of which the government has no constitutional authorization to do.

reply to post by mybigunit


Getting rid of an extra 22.3% per quarter to give easily replaced employees a raise is a bad business decision. One would think as a business owner you would know that.

McDonalds isn't in business to make their employees lives better. They are in business to make a profit, provide a nice return to their shareholders, and to increase their marketshare in the competitive fast food industry.

No reason to blow an extra 223 mil when you can simply hire people to do the same job for less.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Well said! I was just about to post something similar. You said it better than I could have. Thanks, I so agree!

Justmomma what exactly is it you do i hear all these poeple saying all these ways to make money from home what are they doin fill me in??

I have a education but yes i have a boss too.

Just like those late night get rich programs.... Hey guys making money is so easy order our 60 buck DVD and books and we will tell you how to work from home and make 1000's a week ...

If it was that easy half the nation would be millionaires.

tell me all you smart people what do you do that allows you to sit at home and make all this money. heh




[edit on 27-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

[edit on 27-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

Originally posted by ncuncfan2006
Justmomma what exactly is it you do i hear all these poeple saying all these ways to make money from home what are they doin fill me in??

I have a education but yes i have a boss too.

Just like those late night get rich programs.... Hey guys making money is so easy order our 60 buck DVD and books and we will tell you how to work from home and make 1000's a week ...

Heh of it was that easy half the nation would be millionares.

tell me all you smart people what do you do that allows you to sit at home and make all this money. heh




[edit on 27-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

There are all sorts of things you can do. It is a matter of finding out what services ppl need and doing it. ONE of the things I do, for example is I do the newsletters for ppl ppl like my dad (but he is not the only one). I save them time in formatting and typing up their announcements w/ the items that ppl in these third world countries need and I email them out to those who help to fulfill these needs (these newsletters also include photos and updates on their progress w/ helping the ppl).

That is one example though of many things. People are always looking to cut corners and they are willing to pay for ppl cutting corners for them. A good friend of mine has built up a business that caters to small businesses (for the most part although he is like me and always has many back up plans to help in growing his business). He started this around the beginning of the year and has put so much time and effort into it that he is already having to employ workers at VERY decent salaries.

It is all a matter of figuring out where you are willing to fill in on things for ppl and marketing that. Now, my friend's "work" is an actual business whereas what I have do is find out how to "fill in" the corners for those who feel they are too busy (it gives me more flexibility so that I can actually be a mother to my boys).

Then, so that I don't become so reliable on one thing, I sat and made a list of many different ideas. I don't know where all this will take me.. Just kind of going w/ it and it not only has turned in a profit that affords me necessities AND comforts, but again, the freedom to "be there" for my kids.

That is what I am saying. We are NOT so far gone in this country that we have an excuse to rely on those who we feel will take advantage.. They are able to take advantage because we give it to them by not using our most valuable resource as human beings......... our brains. Hope that helps.


[edit on 27-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by ncuncfan2006


2 words:

Affiliate.

Marketing.

There ya go.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by NorthWolfe CND

 

The population of Americans who are on their 'lazy bums' are probably comparable to the ones from your own country. There are many more hardworking Americans than there are lazy ones. And every country has it's share of drug users, and lazy bums. No one country has a patent on this, expecially not America. Your generalization is appalling.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by space cadet]

If I offended you I am sorry, but:

Just to set the record straight:
1) Nationality - Canadian
2) Official residence/work - Long Island, New York, United States of America (have lived in the USA for more years then in Canada so my loyalties are divided equally).
3) Presently in - Portugal(at this time), UK or Scandinavia[I travel a lot]

I did not make any generalization, next time please post the quote so I know what you are talking about and don't have to assume you don't know how to interpret what you read...

reply to post by realshanti


"...but I'm here to tell you sh!!t happens to hard working people in the real world no matter how well you plan for it...so keep that in mind that you are speaking of actual breathing human beings not unlike yourself..."

I agree that sometimes the sh*t hist the fan, for everybody, that includes the filthy rich...But, on average, it is rare to see a hard working human being go "down the toilet...

In Long Island, New York, where I usually live, I saw many people loose their jobs and even loose their pensions, mainly due to bad investments, but I see most of those people, some in their 50's and 60's, learning new skills in the local education centers and parish support groups, I don't see them quit and whine. These are not the people I am Talking about...
I even know of a former wealthy investment banker that started a gardening business from scratch,which I regularly use, with loans from family and friends, now, 5 or 6 years later, he employs more then 20 people. He had lost everything on the dot.com stock crash, lost his house, his cars, was already retired...but, did he give up? No, he learned new skills and got back on his feet...

Guess he is from a generation that was ashamed not to be able to provide for their families...Ashamed to whine...Ashamed to beg...
But not ashamed to ask for help, in the USA if you need help, and are a trustworthy person, you will get it.

As for the people I am referring to, they are not Human beings, to me, they are no more then parasites and I give them the same regard I give a cockroach...

Originally posted by Charlieslies88

Sorry I just found this humorous and had to single it out... I am pretty sure volumes of text have been written and hours of movies made documenting the unscrupulous way in which Microsoft got its start. While they did not "steal" their millions from anyone, they did nudge quite a few people out of the way on their way up the ladder.

By nudge do you mean make a better product then their rivals, a product most of us bought? I remember MSDOS, no system came even close to it, in those days...like MS Windows, it revolutionized and democratized the information technology. If it not for MS, and Apple, only 10 or 20% of the people would have a PC, when I started we where far fewer, and I am not that old...

reply to post by VDOG.45


Great Post

By the way, if you wanted you could be adding a couple of zeros to your yearly income...you have the right skills to be making 1mill+. To each is own and congratulations on your hard work!!!

Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by Krieger


Before you say "You could hunt or fish or stuff!" Um, yeah, if I shot at an animal it would be a raccoon or a opossum and if I missed, or heck if I hit and the bullet went through, I'd kill someone in another house/apartment.

WTF you doing hunting around houses and apartments anyways?

You get all camo'ed up and go hunting in the suburbs or what?

And how will I get to the woods? No gas attendant working the gas station since we got rid of all minimum wage workers. And I can't buy a gun or bullets or camo because the people who put that on a shelf for me to buy disappeared when we got rid of minimum wage workers. And even if it was there oops, no one working the cash register.

So Slackwire, what will you do? Just rob places for stuff since we got rid of all minimum wage workers so no one left to stock shelves or work cash register machines?

reply to post by NorthWolfe CND


Sure - I hear what your saying - In fact I'm on a waiting list for section eight housing as I mentioned in a previous post and whenever I check to see where I am on the list (I'm at number 30 now) my friend in the system tells me they're busy evicting yet another drug dealer that just moved in ahead me - this has happened several times....I have a good feeling tho that by the time my name makes it to the top of the list I will have moved on to a better situation in any case...I may be disabled but my brain still works fine so I'm working on other avenues of generating income...it just takes a little time and patience and perseverance...