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Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

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posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by dalan.


It is near impossible for a single person to live off minimum wage.


Not impossible in the least. The problem is, ppl think that "living" entails having a nice computer, big screen t.v., home w/ two bathrooms, nearly new car, cell phone, stereo system, etc etc etc.

A single person can not only LIVE off of minimum wage w/ ease, they can put some in savings too!! We are just living in a spoiled society!




posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by forthepeople
 


3.7 mil and you still can't manage to use elementary school level grammar?






Maybe he usually has his secretary to type for him. Maybe he can have one of those cause he pays them a fair wage..



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


Here is my take on what is going on: In an effort to appease the low income people and the ones that have been footing the bill of the welfare programs, our government officials have decided to increase the minimum wage, thereby making it appear that the ones who are making minimum wage can now afford to take care of themselves and the ones on welfare will now get jobs.

Alas, our government officials who have made this choice to raise the minimum wage are not learned in basic economic practices. How can they be when they are the same officials who manage to budget "money" that does not even exist. (The American Deficit is what I refer to).

Did they not learn from the last minimum wage hikes when the cost of living went up further than the wages did? That put MORE people in the low income bracket. When minimum wage was $3.35 per hour, I was a skilled worker making $6/hr. When the minimum wage went up to $5+, I was still a skilled worker making $7/hr. Now, minimum wage is to go up to $7+ and I am still a skilled worker making $12/hr but I pay three times the cost of living from what I paid back when I made $6/hr. I worked my way up to the level I recieve now and I noticed my employer cutting back on the maximum income limits from $22/hr., when I first started with this company to $16/hr. Minimum wage skyrocketed, my wages only doubled and the cost of living skyrocketed with the minimum wage. If that was not enough, now my employer can no longer afford to reward it's loyal employees and unless they hike the cost of their product to the consumer, can not offer new jobs. Bottom line for me is: I worked my butt off for 20 years to double my income just to have the value of it stolen from me by our wonderful government officials who know not what they do!

What does raising the minimum wage do? It is an illusion. What it really does is makes the cost of living go up to match the minimum wage resulting in absolutely no benefit what-so-ever.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by dalan.


It is near impossible for a single person to live off minimum wage.


Not impossible in the least. The problem is, ppl think that "living" entails having a nice computer, big screen t.v., home w/ two bathrooms, nearly new car, cell phone, stereo system, etc etc etc.

A single person can not only LIVE off of minimum wage w/ ease, they can put some in savings too!! We are just living in a spoiled society!


Sorry if you post BS im gonna call you on it. And this is the biggest load of BS i seen in all 22 pages.

Working for minimum wage in my area you would clear $750 a month.. Less than that if you pay for health insurance.


A apartment one bedroom even section 8 would be $350... and who wants to live around drug dealers? But still we will say $350

That leaves $400...

Electric Bill. Just went up 11% in this area. Say $80 bucks.

Leaves $320.

We are not even gonna say you have a car payment. Lets say you own your own car. hmm car insurance and gas under the best of situations for the month easily would take $150. And Im being very generous here.

That leaves you $170 for food, clothes, medications, hygiene products etc. No basic cable tv, internet. No cell phone or land line.

And this is for a single person. 1 kid? heh hang it up...

Sure if you wanna live in a cave without any modern necessities you can make it off that. However we are not in the Dark Ages.









[edit on 26-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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Then what would be a fair "minimum wage" for all of those who want a "living wage" for everyone?

What is the fair, miminum entry level wage for any and all entering the workforce?

If it has to be a "living wage", then just what standard of living do you want for people?

If you are going to argue that the MW right now is not fair, not right, a huge problem, then where would you start everyone out.....the high schooler working part time as a cashier in a grocery store and the adult working full time trying to make a living in an entry level job (someone without a degree, marketable skills, etc.)?



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by ncuncfan2006
Sorry if you post BS im gonna call you on it. And this is the biggest load of BS i seen in all 22 pages.



Don't be sorry to me
. First of all, let's clear up that the post I was replying to said, and I quote:


Originally posted by dalan.
It is near impossible for a single person to live off minimum wage.



So, what we are talking about here is a single person on minimum wage. Single meaning they have no children; no wife/husband; no other living entity but themself with whom they must support. No point in trying to bring in someone who has a dependent as you did further into your post in addressing my reply.






Working for minimum wage in my area you would clear $750 a month.. Less than that if you pay for health insurance.


A apartment one bedroom even section 8 would be $350... and who wants to live around drug dealers? But still we will say $350 . That leaves $400...

Electric Bill. Just went up 11% in this area. Say $80 bucks.

Leaves $320.


OR this single person can pull some of his buddies together and split rent in a nice, but modest home for rent. I did this w/ some girfriends back in my late teens/early twenties. 3 (sometimes 4) of us lived in a very roomy 4 bdr/ 3bthr home in a nice neighborhood for $850/mo which (when 3) came out to (rounded off) $284/mo and when we had the extra occasional roomie, it came out to $213/mo. then we split all the additional bills (including cable and phone) which (let's just say it was the 3 of us) came out to be about an additional $65/mo (that's the higher end though). So, going w/ just 3 roomies, the most we paid was $349/mo in all.

So, after rent and bills that leave $401 ($81 extra in your pocket and you have nicer living arrangements)




We are not even gonna say you have a car payment. Lets say you own your own car. hmm car insurance and gas under the best of situations for the month easily would take $150. And Im being very generous here.


agreed that that is generous, but if someone wants to stick to only a minimum wage job or doesn't want to work an extra job to better their situation, but they want to save money there are other options.

#1. work close to where you live so you can walk which puts another $150 back into your pocket.

#2. take a bus which should at the most be around $40/month but we'll go ahead (for good measure) say it will be $80/mo but still that saves $70 in comparison to your scenario.

#3. or you could car pool w/ a fellow worker (one of my roomies and i worked together and instead of us taking both our vehicles, we rode together). so, perhaps in this scenario w/ you being "generous" using the lower end in your calculation you could at least save around $30.

so now you could have either $551 left over which is $381 more than your scenario AND you are getting your exercise!! *big grin*

or $471 left over which is $ 301 more than your ONLY scenario


or on the lower end of the savings, but still, saving $$ is saving $$, you have $431 left over, $261 more than your ONLY scenario.



That leaves you $170 for food, clothes, medications, hygiene products etc. No basic cable tv, internet. No cell phone or land line.

And this is for a single person. 1 kid? heh hang it up...

Sure if you wanna live in a cave without any modern necessities you can make it off that. However we are not in the Dark Ages.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]


haha!! Sorry, but my scenario gets you into nicer surroundings, you still get cable and phone (or internet) and you have more left over for the hygiene, meds (like you need those weekly), food, clothes (also something you should not have to buy weekly or even monthly bc you don't HAVE to do EVERYTHING the ppl in the magazines tell you to), and other products.

But that is why I make more than minimum wage (in fact, I bring in my own money)..... because I ALWAYS have back up plans to my back up plans!!!





[edit on 26-7-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


A good living wage for a burger flipper or cleaner or whatever should be $10.00 and hour. I feel that is where minimum wage should be right now. Anything below that it you cant survive.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 



So, part timers and full timers should be paid the same, then?

Not trying to be snarky or anything, I am just trying to sort this out in my head. And, figure out what this means for those with marketable skills and/or make above the MW now.....


[edit on 26-7-2008 by skeptic1]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:01 PM
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I figured you would bring roommates into the discussion.
You know how many people ive heard complain about their roommates. Cant get along, wont pay his/her share etc etc

This may work out if you are lucky enough to find good roommates you can trust.

However I was talking about a single person with noone else helping them. Noone to share the bills with roommates or otherwise.

Of course you can be like most illegals and all shack up in a house 3 to a room and pay 100 bucks each for rent.

But truely most people want their own space and privacy and living with certain people can be a chore.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by skeptic1
 


A good living wage for a burger flipper or cleaner or whatever should be $10.00 and hour. I feel that is where minimum wage should be right now. Anything below that it you cant survive.



So far, most of your posts on this board in general I have agreed with. This however, I can not. What do ppl consider essential to living that you would HAVE to be making $10/hr to SURVIVE?

Flipping burgers is hardly a skill that is worthy of having a minimum $10/hr wage. Moving up to maybe floor manager and then manager would seemingly be worthy of raises, but a burger flipper?


This is a job for someone who is STILL IN HIGHSCHOOL!!! There is little to no real thought process required for such a job. Next thing you know ppl are going to start demanding that mothers get income for being mothers (oh, wait, I guess they do that through food stamps and other such programs).

And someone who is for all these MW increases please explain to me what you think is entailed in surviving?

I have just shown how a single person can easily, not only live, but live rather comfortably for less than $750/mo. All it takes is the actual using of one's brain.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by ncuncfan2006
I figured you would bring roommates into the discussion.
You know how many people ive heard complain about their roommates. Cant get along, wont pay his/her share etc etc

This may work out if you are lucky enough to find good roommates you can trust.

However I was talking about a single person with noone else helping them. Noone to share the bills with roommates or otherwise.

Of course you can be like most illegals and all shack up in a house 3 to a room and pay 100 bucks each for rent.

But truely most people want their own space and privacy and living with certain people can be a chore.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]


Easy solution to that then... do something worthy of being paid more!! Or get another job. You should have to WORK harder and use your brain for the comforts in life (although, at the time, I rather enjoyed having the company of my roommates, but I am a pretty easy going person when it comes to getting along w/ others).

Comforts are not essential to living. You want them, figure out how to get them other than asking the gov't to come in and force others to give it to you.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by skeptic1
 


A good living wage for a burger flipper or cleaner or whatever should be $10.00 and hour. I feel that is where minimum wage should be right now. Anything below that it you cant survive.



So far, most of your posts on this board in general I have agreed with. This however, I can not. What do ppl consider essential to living that you would HAVE to be making $10/hr to SURVIVE?

Flipping burgers is hardly a skill that is worthy of having a minimum $10/hr wage. Moving up to maybe floor manager and then manager would seemingly be worthy of raises, but a burger flipper?


This is a job for someone who is STILL IN HIGHSCHOOL!!! There is little to no real thought process required for such a job. Next thing you know ppl are going to start demanding that mothers get income for being mothers (oh, wait, I guess they do that through food stamps and other such programs).

And someone who is for all these MW increases please explain to me what you think is entailed in surviving?

I have just shown how a single person can easily, not only live, but live rather comfortably for less than $750/mo. All it takes is the actual using of one's brain.


I have been asking what standard of living folks want supported by a "living wage". Certain things in this world are luxuries....problem is that too many people see them as necessary and take them for granted.

I mean, should a living wage be the same across the board (all across the country) or should it be based by region? Should the living wage be the same in NY City as it is in South Georgia? I lived fine on $8 per hour for years in South GA (with plenty to spare after bills were paid), but the COL is lower....what do you do in areas where the COL is much, much higher? Raise the LW.....and how is that fair??

[edit on 26-7-2008 by skeptic1]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


Brother I don't know where you got your economic education from, albeit I am sure it was peer reviewed multiple times.. but..

Statements like this:



This is one of those threads that amazes me. The data on this is crystal clear. It cannot get any clearer. It is simply a fact that when you remove artificial wages the average median wage rises and quartile median wages rise across all sectors. This happens every time its tested in the economic models. The inflation impact works both ways - the justification for raising the minimum wage from the populist brigade is always because of inflation, but in doing so inflation gets raised yet again. Its a cycle.


Whether or not the minimum wage has a direct effect on inflation is unknown for sure, it is only in theory that it does. By raising the minimum wage, employers turn around and raise the price of goods creating a devaluation of the Dollar -- one dollar buying less then what it once could -- however, the the ratio from prices raised to wages raised is often not "equal". This is to say is the minimum wage is raised 1 dollar an hour, goods will not rise to the equivalent of, but only to a minor extent. Thus inflation is not "ah, well these poor folks earn more now, let's charge more for hamburgers". Essentially only a few markets are actually directly effected by minimum wage earners, those being big box retailers and fast food. The profit margin is so extensive that if only 10% of the employees of a store earn minimum wage, then the profit difference is non-existent.

This is proven by the fact that many companies willingly pay above and beyond the minimum wage by choice .. the idea being you can hire better workers, better worker relations, happier workers and more productive workers.. which all increase profits.

Also, all wages rise.. be it in the corporate world or in the service and industrial world.. every year the average wage raises as profits increase, it is a sound sign of a good economy.. the minimum wage should be designed (and it is now in my state) to rise with inflation so as to retain it's intended purpose of stopping large corporations from using them for slave labor .. most often those making minimum wage earn that because they are in a situation that they cannot defend themselves, they must take what they can get.. hence why America is in love with illegal labor .. it is the modern slave trade.

But yes, raising the minimum wage will cause inflation as more people have more money, but at a 70cent raise, honestly, the impact is not felt by us.

It's felt by minimum wage earners.

No just company pays minimum wage.. as a member of my local chamber of commerce, I know those who do pay their employers minimum wage and it honestly reflects their own personality.. that is crude, rude, arrogant and detached from humanity. Most of the friends I have who own businesses, as Bigunit does, pays a livable wage, because it's not always about personal profit above the expense of the Humans who help operate your business.. and that's what they are, people, not robots to be used, abused and discarded.

For some reason in this country we have taken to siding with the large corporations .. they # up and cost us billions, oh we will accept and pay it off without question, but when it comes to allocating a few million off their ballance sheets so families can eat at night, oh dear God what about the Free market?? Free market my ass, it's the mentality like that which got us into our current situation.

Private profits, Socialized debt.

Besides, current inflation (around 15%) will never be effected by minimum wage.. we only leave our fellow American's in the dust, often those who do not possess the resources to make something better of themselves.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


Look life throws situations at you that are sometimes unavoidable.


One point in case.

I know a 42 y/o female who works as a secretary at a insurance adjusters company. She has been with them 6 years. She does dictations, filing, etc etc.

They pay her a measly 8.25 / hour. The going rate is over $10 for someone with her exp. This damn company is stingy as hell and wont pay the poor woman whats shes worth.

But guess what she cant look another job you know why?

She has Crohns disease she has to get remicade infusions every 2 months or so if she doesnt she is in bad pain and gets sick. These things are $4000 dollars a pop. But the insurance she has at work covers it. She cant quit that job cause it would take to long for insurance to kick in on a new job.. I think she checked into her own seperate insurance plan but it was to high for her at the time i dont know the details.

She would have to miss her infusions and cant..


See life is not always so cut and dry as you people make it out to be.

If the damn place would pay her whats she is worth she wouldnt struggle as much.



[edit on 26-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 



As I have stated before, I am not saying there aren't obvious problems. I just don't see that raising minimum wage will fix those problems. In fact, I dare say it will only continue to elevate those problems.

Did minimum wage increases help your friend or really hurt her? I know that some on here have said that MW increases do not affect the prices, and that is BS. I have already had a business owner friend admit that he had to raise the prices a bit on his products (right after he said that it does not affect it.
).

So, since she is making over MW, right?, then she is unlikely to an increase in her wages, but she may have to struggle even harder now to keep up with merchants raising their prices to compensate for the pay increases they must now give their "lower" skilled employees.

I think it was Einstein who said we can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

I have ideas of other solutions, but others aren't going to want to listen to them or anyone with alternative REAL solutions so long as they are buying into this illusion that the government playing parent to the individual is the solution. People are so dependent on their comforts and conveniences that they are letting the very ones they claim to not trust make the decisions for them.

You have been fed this "scrooge" mentality about business owners when in actuality, most of the small business owners I know are anything BUT scrooges. It is the big coorporations that are deceiving you bc they are making money off your ignorance.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Why dont you open your own burger joint and pay your employees 10 bucks an hour?



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 



As I have stated before, I am not saying there aren't obvious problems. I just don't see that raising minimum wage will fix those problems. In fact, I dare say it will only continue to elevate those problems.

Did minimum wage increases help your friend or really hurt her? I know that some on here have said that MW increases do not affect the prices, and that is BS. I have already had a business owner friend admit that he had to raise the prices a bit on his products (right after he said that it does not affect it.
).

So, since she is making over MW, right?, then she is unlikely to an increase in her wages, but she may have to struggle even harder now to keep up with merchants raising their prices to compensate for the pay increases they must now give their "lower" skilled employees.

I think it was Einstein who said we can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

I have ideas of other solutions, but others aren't going to want to listen to them or anyone with alternative REAL solutions so long as they are buying into this illusion that the government playing parent to the individual is the solution. People are so dependent on their comforts and conveniences that they are letting the very ones they claim to not trust make the decisions for them.

You have been fed this "scrooge" mentality about business owners when in actuality, most of the small business owners I know are anything BUT scrooges. It is the big coorporations that are deceiving you bc they are making money off your ignorance.



I seen in big factorys they say they dont have enough money to give people a good raise. But the plant managers get there $100,000 bonuses somehow.

It all boils down to greed.

And if they did away with MW do you think companys will pay 4/hr? Ya
never know.

So you think the government should step out of it all together. Let business have free reign over their employees.

Then it will be like gas prices hey you need fuel, ya need work what can you do? They give and charge what they like and you take it up the arse.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

[edit on 26-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Wow beautiful speech my friend star for you. I agree and there is really not much more I can add to this that I already have in earlier posts. Deny economic injustice.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


min wage needs to be raised..end poverty..end this BS caste system....banish these draconian laws...

oh and we need NESARA or something like it
www.nesara.us...

www.white-knights911.net...

www.luisprada.com...



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by ncuncfan2006
 



This is STILL America, is it not?
They are not being told to work there or they will face being shot in the head are they? I mean, if they are, then yes, that is a major issue to address.

If not, the ppl can sacrifice a bit for the time being to find a better job! Why do we just automatically assume as a society that we are SO entitled not to face hardships? For every story you are giving me, I can give hundreds of stories that others have gone through in way of sacrificing to acheive their dream........ all w/out the help of the government.

Society as a whole is LOOKING for excuses and in reality, those excuses are falling short every single time someone beats the odds and makes something of their life through hard work, determination, and yes, SACRIFICES!

This country was not founded by people who expected things to be handed to them and this country will continue to lose what once made it great by this "give me give me give me" attitude it has grown accustomed to.

[edit on 26-7-2008 by justamomma]





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