Originally posted by Rockpuck


And as Light says, raising the Minimum wage does in fact excel inflation, however, cause and effect often takes several years to "catch up" in a normal economy.

[edit on 7/26/2008 by Rockpuck]

Actually if you look at history it is quite the opposite. Inflation causes us to raise minimum wage not the other way around. The fact is I do understand your and lights point I think anyways. If Im reading you right your saying that it sets a value and if there is no minimum wage people would make more money because it doesnt set that minimum value for the less important jobs. Interesting and thought provoking but I have to disagree. Ill disagree on the premise of look at the wealth gap in the fortune 500 companies for example. The execs make on average 500x their normal employees. So you say to yourself is that fair?

I do own a business (as you know Rock) so I do have room to talk on this. I only make around 3x my average employee and I would never ever think about paying anyone who works for me minimum wage. I believe in paying what is called a living wage for my lower end employees. That is $10.00 and hour. $7 and hour you just cant make it in this world its impossible and if more employers had my mindset where you pay your employees well because its those same employees that come back to buy your products (fordism as it is called) then our country would be in a lot better situation than we are in. We do that and then get rid of the fractional reserve system and bring our manufacturing jobs back here WOW we could really become a great power again.

Wow. Quite a few arguments about getting an education and making something of yourself, then you won't have to work for minimum wage.

I will play along. Lets say everyone in the world decided that was the path they were going to take. They work that job at Burger King and maybe another if needed, borrow money for school, etc. Eventually everyone in the world gets educated equally. No man is smarter than another. So then what happens? We still need people to work at all the undesirable crappy jobs. Only difference is now they will have a college education whle they clean the toilets.

The point is we will always need a segment of the population to work jobs that require little training, what everyone assumes and what I disagee with is that we must have a lower class to achieve this. Most people flipping burgers contribute more to society than those making 10 times what they make. Innovation and education need to be rewarded to some degree, but ultimately wages should be determined by the real worth you bring society as whole.

We have the resources to give everyone on earth a typical American middle class or better existence. Only thing that stops this is the chase for more money. The only way it can work is if we have much parity in wages across all lines of work. Money will just be a measure of what you have actually contributed to society based on total social benefit rather than profit. Invent the cure for aids you will be living pretty large. Flip burgers you won't do near as well, but you will be doing much better than you are now, with that same job. If for no other reason then we either pay higher wages or higher taxes to pay for the social programs taht are neccesary because of the low wages.

We have a LOT of philosophers, physicists, doctors, theologians and such as taxi drivers here in finland. In sweden that is a problem as well. There is a certain limit on education you know, you cannot possibly educate everybody so that everybody gains average income. Economy just doesn't work that way. Prices of goods will always match average income in a certain way.

Not that education is bad, everybody should understand importance of it. However, I suppose that doesn't work in other political systems. Our system is social, so goverment wants to reduce spending by ordering a minimum income so that people get more by working instead of just being around. And no, our social security really isn't a paradise except for those who always eat same kind of very cheap food and buy jsut about everything as used.

Half you guys are soc...
Anti progress???
Lets pay our workers $ 2.00 an hour!

every min wage business follows suit--

Good lord...

If anyone gets rid of the minimum wage - I will personally ruin merchendise- cut holes in sleeves- Lay the largest cloggingest craps--

I will make it my mission to raise cost for every business I encounter consistently

unscrew screws - throw a little olive oil on the floor, my mind is running wild...

If I cannot change your minds, it will cost your a$$.

The anti abortion folks will have nothing on me and my gang!

Once again...

If you rid the country of the people making minimum wage, the country will be destroyed.

You need these people. You think your food just magically appears on shelves? You think that dollar burger just makes itself? You think that chemical spill in the hospital is sucked up by underpants gnomes? You think that video you just rented just magically appeared on the shelf and then in your video player? Do you think everything is done by magic? You have to believe in magic to think minimum wage workers are a burden.

BTW, I make more then Minimum wage, so really it increasing doesn't do me any good. I just realize I'd starve to death without minimum wage workers.

Before you say "You could hunt or fish or stuff!" Um, yeah, if I shot at an animal it would be a raccoon or a opossum and if I missed, or heck if I hit and the bullet went through, I'd kill someone in another house/apartment. And fish? Ha, no minimum wage workers to put the fishing pole on the shelf for me to buy. And no minimum wage worker to work the register so I can buy my fishing license. And stuff? Yeah, I'll find some dandelion greens to eat, until winter comes, then I guess I'll eat cake. If you don't get the joke, well, can't say much for you.

Also, to the people with the welfare people horror stories, KICK THEM OUT or CALL THE POLICE! If the boyfriends aren't paying rent they're squattors and tresspassing. If they are lying about their addresses you can call the state and they WILL GO TO JAIL! My Momma rented the addition on the house, called a mother in law apartment around here, to two welfare getters. She got pissed that they wouldn't work but sold drugs and stuff to make more money and in the end she waited for them to get in their car to go sell more crap, called the police on them, then had me and a couple friends go through and make sure we got rid of anything illegal they left in the apartment before the police showed up. Both got caught with lots of cocaine and both went to their seperate prisons.

Originally posted by Krieger


Before you say "You could hunt or fish or stuff!" Um, yeah, if I shot at an animal it would be a raccoon or a opossum and if I missed, or heck if I hit and the bullet went through, I'd kill someone in another house/apartment.

WTF you doing hunting around houses and apartments anyways?

You get all camo'ed up and go hunting in the suburbs or what?