Obama in Berlin!?, page 10
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reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 03:54 PM by Sweet Paula
reply to post by Quazga

Thank you Quazga! I was about to post here but almost word for word you said it all! Thank you for your honest and forthright statements about this man. I too believe he will be our next President.


"I see America, not in the setting sun of a black night of despair ahead of us, I see America in the crimson light of a rising sun fresh from the burning, creative hand of God. I see great days ahead, great days possible to men and women of will and vision."

Carl Sandburg (1878 - 1967)


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 04:35 PM by sos37
Originally posted by Quazga
Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by Quazga


Could you tell me why McCain is better than Obama?

Thought so.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by Quazga]


Actually that's the first time I've seen you actually list your reasons for supporting Obama so thanks for doing that. My reasons for think McCain is better than Obama are:

* Cap and trade - bad idea that will allow big corporations to buy exemtpions from smaller companies and continue to pollute the environment
* Supports construction of more nuclear and clean coal power plants in this country. Given the energy grid problems we saw during this last decade, especially California with the prospect of rolling blackouts, the country needs more energy generation. This will also create jobs. Obama opposes nuclear power.
* Supports drilling. Sure, we need to get off our dependence on foreign oil, and drilling and refining our own is a way to do this, right? Doesn't this seem like a far more feasible alternative than spending hundreds of billions on some renewable energy technology that doesn't exist yet, then re-outfitting a bunch of vehicles that aren't formatted to use this technology? What about other techs that need oil such as generation of electricity? Wind power is good, but it isn't going to power your car. We need to drill our own oil NOW and stabilize the gas price crunch in the next decade before we concentrate funding renewable sources of energy.
* Obama is pro-choice. I'm one of those rare Republicans that also believes in pro-choice, but only up to a certain timeframe. When a pregnancy has progressed far enough that it becomes partial-birth abortion, I'm out. If there's a chance the fetus can be delivered and will live, then ending the life is clearly murder. Obama supports partial birth abortions. To me this is support for murder of children.
* Universal health care? OMG, this isn't the answer and it will WRECK the nation's health care system! You watch, if this is implemented the first signs of trouble will be with Primary Care Physicians and PPOs start opting out of the programs and go strictly private because the Fed will renegotiate their compensation based on federal guidelines.
* Obama is a socialist and a marxist.

as previously posted here www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 25-7-2008 by sos37]


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 05:09 PM by sos37
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by sos37
Why was Obama apologizing to Germany on behalf of America? Doesn't that spit in the face of the soldiers who fought against the Third Reich in the second world war?


Show me where Obama apologized to Berlin and I will answer the question. I'm not going to assume what part of the speech you're interpreting as an apology to Germany on behalf of America.



Quoting directly from his speech:

"People of Berlin, people of the world. This is our moment, this is our time. I know my country has not perfected itself. At times we've struggled to keep the promise of liberty, the quality for all of our people. We've made our share of mistakes. There are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions."

That's an apology. To a German audience, about American conduct. About America.

We've been been over there twice and have lost hundreds of thousands of men, cleaning up after Germany. Now America may not be perfect, but we sure as hell don't need to explain that to the Germans.

Facts:
* The U.S. rebuilt Germany!
* It's because of the United States that Germany isn't speaking Russian after WW II. Russia actually divided Germany into West and East Germany!
* It's because of the U.S. that the Berlin Wall was taken down (Thanks to Ronald Reagan).

So you tell me, BH, why isn't Barack Obama over there reminding Germany of all the great things that the United States has DONE for them throughout history and asking for their support? Why instead is he apologizing for the shortcomings of the U.S. and asking for their unification?

Doesn't the fact that Barack Obama is telling the crowd what they want to hear at the cost of smearing his own country and the brave men and women who died in WWI and WWII tell you that he is a fair weathered poltician who will say whatever it takes to win favor?


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 05:40 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by sos37
"I know my country has not perfected itself."


So you disagree with this? You think the US is PERFECT?


"At times we've struggled to keep the promise of liberty, the quality for all of our people."


Slavery ring a bell? Bush's trashing of the Constitution? The Patriot Act? Wiretapping? The above sentence is true.


"We've made our share of mistakes. There are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions."


You don't think we've made mistakes? Perhaps invaded sovereign countries without proof?


That's an apology. To a German audience, about American conduct. About America.


That's TOTALLY your opinion. I don't agree he was apologizing to Germans. He was stating facts about the US.


So you tell me, BH, why isn't Barack Obama over there reminding Germany of all the great things that the United States has DONE for them throughout history and asking for their support?


I don't think he needs to remind them. The appearance of US flags and outbursts of applause when he talked about loving the US is good enough for me. 200,000 people showing up to hear him speak shows me that they are aware of America's place in the world and that they appreciate and love this country.


Why instead is he apologizing for the shortcomings of the U.S. and asking for their unification?


Because it's a good idea to be unified with our allies around the world? Maybe? What's wrong with apologizing when you've been an asshat, anyway?


Doesn't the fact that Barack Obama is telling the crowd what they want to hear at the cost of smearing his own country and the brave men and women who died in WWI and WWII tell you that he is a fair weathered poltician who will say whatever it takes to win favor?


Oh dear! Smearing his own country! Wake up! You're dreaming! But thanks for the laugh. Suffice it to say, you are hearing a whole lot that simply isn't there. I'm hearing what he said, you're making things up. Sorry.


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 05:45 PM by kilad
reply to post by sos37


where is your logic, why would he apologize for the help the US gave after the war?

"There are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions."

Isn`t it rather apologizing for what have occured the recent years? Trying to repair the bridge to the rest the world that Bush demolished? Is that a bad thing? Well i guess you don`t give "a rats ass" about the rest of the world, good thinking.


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 06:29 PM by sos37
The first things you quoted and replied with were taken out of context of the argument. Of course I don't think America is perfect and I never said we were.


That's an apology. To a German audience, about American conduct. About America.

That's TOTALLY your opinion. I don't agree he was apologizing to Germans. He was stating facts about the US.


Not just me, there were others in the vocal media who saw this as an apology and I believe it's going to hurt his campaign, particularly with the older veterans.


So you tell me, BH, why isn't Barack Obama over there reminding Germany of all the great things that the United States has DONE for them throughout history and asking for their support?


I don't think he needs to remind them. The appearance of US flags and outbursts of applause when he talked about loving the US is good enough for me. 200,000 people showing up to hear him speak shows me that they are aware of America's place in the world and that they appreciate and love this country.


First, I believe he does as the Germans have had a low opinion of the U.S. for a while now, even back into the Clinton era.

Second, the event was an organized, choreographed event including a rock band, free beer and bratwurst. So yeah, people are going to show up and applause with whatever is being said. Obama could be praising the Dyson vaccuum and they would go just as crazy.


Why instead is he apologizing for the shortcomings of the U.S. and asking for their unification?


Because it's a good idea to be unified with our allies around the world? Maybe? What's wrong with apologizing when you've been an asshat, anyway?


Who says we have? How exactly have we inconvenienced Germany might I ask? What have we done that has caused them any hardship or anything for that matter as to why we would be seeking their forgiveness?


Doesn't the fact that Barack Obama is telling the crowd what they want to hear at the cost of smearing his own country and the brave men and women who died in WWI and WWII tell you that he is a fair weathered poltician who will say whatever it takes to win favor?


Oh dear! Smearing his own country! Wake up! You're dreaming! But thanks for the laugh. Suffice it to say, you are hearing a whole lot that simply isn't there. I'm hearing what he said, you're making things up. Sorry.


Oh I see. You don't see anything good in this country right now, is that it? The United States is pretty much a blood-soaked mess the way it is that doesn't take care of its own people, right?

You think this country is nothing but a huge prison that tells its citizens how to live, how to eat, where to work, what to do, what not to do.

You're not proud to be an American. You wouldn't wave an American flag to save your life, right? Nevermind that there are truckloads of people from foreign countries still desperately seeking citizenship in the U.S., no you were born here which gives you the right to take a dump all over this great nation, correct?

Now I get it. This nation and its people has become one big, huge headache to you.

For the love of God, why my father and my grandfather served in the military to defend the likes of people like you I will never, ever understand. People like you are so ungrateful for the blessings you have. All you care about is YOUR own personal agenda, not the good of the entire nation.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by sos37]

[edit on 25-7-2008 by sos37]


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 06:33 PM by sos37
Originally posted by kilad
reply to post by sos37


where is your logic, why would he apologize for the help the US gave after the war?

"There are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions."

Isn`t it rather apologizing for what have occured the recent years? Trying to repair the bridge to the rest the world that Bush demolished? Is that a bad thing? Well i guess you don`t give "a rats ass" about the rest of the world, good thinking.



You're not understanding. He is making an apology to a country that we have helped so many times in the past and pointing out our shortfalls instead of honoring the men and women, our men and women, who gave their lives to defend Germany from facists.

That's the irony. Why apologize to them when we've done absolutely nothing but help them?

Why not remind them of all the help, of all the ways we have been benevolent to them in the past and ask them to unify with us against terrorism?


reply posted on 25-7-2008 @ 07:09 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by sos37
How exactly have we inconvenienced Germany might I ask?


I didn't say we had. Look, you want to see this as a speech to Germany, but it was a speech to the world. "People of the world - Look at Berlin". You really don't understand the speech at all, do you?

Have you even listened to it? He addressed "people of the world" at least 6 times during the speech.


Oh I see. You don't see anything good in this country right now, is that it? The United States is pretty much a blood-soaked mess the way it is that doesn't take care of its own people, right?


Excuse me? Putting words in my mouth again, I see.


You think this country is nothing but a huge prison that tells its citizens how to live, how to eat, where to work, what to do, what not to do.


I do?


You're not proud to be an American. You wouldn't wave an American flag to save your life, right? Nevermind that there are truckloads of people from foreign countries still desperately seeking citizenship in the U.S., no you were born here which gives you the right to take a dump all over this great nation, correct?

Now I get it. This nation and its people has become one big, huge headache to you.

For the love of God, why my father and my grandfather served in the military to defend the likes of people like you I will never, ever understand. People like you are so ungrateful for the blessings you have. All you care about is YOUR own personal agenda, not the good of the entire nation.


Are you done with your little hissy fit now? If so, I'll just say that you couldn't be more WRONG about me. And attacking me as anti-American because I understood Obama's speech and you didn't doesn't actually reflect badly on me. But it does say a thing or two about you.

Listen to the speech. See if you can decipher the meaning through your hate-colored glasses. If not, I'm sorry, I can't help you.
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