Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Russia ‘Had Laser Cannons Before U.S.’

page: 3
3
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:02 PM
link   
I was always told that the soviets lead the US in Star Wars tech. And that they took Tesla's theories more seriously than the west. They Apparently were devloping that line of tech when we found out just how far they had developed it and we attempted to catch up. Since we had the money to buy out the scientists and ofer them a better life, we snuck them over to the US and a lot of the programs continued here. SO I 've been told that in some aspects of this type of tech we have pulled even or ahead, and in other they are still leading.




posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by manson_322

yes they had superior weaponry , but a very inferior civilian economy , thus they collapsed


[edit on 24-7-2008 by manson_322]



How is it possible to have an "inferior economy" yet have developed superior technology ???

Seems to me, you need a solid Strong Economy , to Afford that kind of weapons development?

No seriously explain this to me, how is it possible?



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:31 PM
link   
reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


thats not true - a laser fired at the moon is 1meter wide on teh moon and 1cm on teh earth - not as serious difusion.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:37 PM
link   
reply to post by buddhasystem
 



Granted it didn't work so well (despite some claims that it did work and destroyed targets), this is just one known installation.


Interesting point but misses the mark... lol



The first applications would have to be limited to anti-satellite, and then primarily to blind optical sensors.


Now blinding lasers, I can believe, that's nothing extraordinary. A 5 watt handheld laser point can burn your retina, which is why in places like Australia here, they're banned as offensive weapons.

Optical apertures work much like the human eye. You shine a light at a high wavelength into the lense and it can actually burn through the sensitive optical system so a tank for example can't see anything.

Far cry from a laser cannon that can shoot down planes though, wouldn't you agree?

reply to post by manson_322
 



no , not by soviet standards ,this type of generator can be put on these soviet planes

IL-76 can carry 40 tons payload

An-124 cargo craft can carry 120 tons

An-225 can carry 250-300 tons

also , supersonic bombers like tu-160 can carry 45 tons ,


IL-76 was operational in 1974.
The Antonov-124 was operational in 1984.
Tu-160 was operational in 1981.
An-225 besides becoming operational in 1988 is the world's largest plane... have you seen this thing? It's a hog with wings, it's designed to carry enormous aid shipments, not lasers, I doubt they would ever consider using that in a military role (It's like putting machine guns on a garbage truck.. lol).

None of these planes could have been used as an airframe for an airborne laser in 1972 as the Russian representative claims.

And all of those planes apart from the Tu-160 are big, slow, noisy cargo jets that would last about 2 minutes in a real war. The Russians weren't that dumb.


clearly, my sources state that development of nuclear pumped laser began in 60's


Yes DEVELOPMENT, may have started but they did not field laser weapons in the 1960's in the Soviet-Sino War or in the 1970's for that matter.

They may have been testing them, but I highly doubt they had actually made working prototypes which had been mounted onto aircraft and vehicles, which were in an advanced state of completion.



and nuclear ractors generate 200+ MW


Could you fit one on a plane though? Or a big truck?


That's my point. YOU CAN generate enough power to power a laser capable of shooting down planes and so on.

BUT the only way that's currently possible is through Nuclear Power, and Nuclear Power has not be refined to the point where it's compact enough to be self-contained on mobile craft, on the ground or in the air.

And it certainly wasn't in the 1960's.


it was in the West that they patented it in 1965??? wasn't it


Yep they did.


A pulsed chemical laser was demonstrated by Jerome V. V. Kasper and George C. Pimentel by 1965[1].

en.wikipedia.org...


they did sell a lot of technologies to USA , not all of them ...


I wasn't talking about selling though, I'm talking about intelligence.
They would have found out sooner or later how develop miniaturised chemical lasers that could be mounted onto vehicles and planes earlier..

Why haven't they still developed any vehicle-borne lasers?
Money certainly isn't an issue, George Bush spends more on defence than the GDP of Western Europe and now with all their secrets out in the open, the Americans should have now found out how the Russians managed to accomplish this in the 60's.

Their lack of development in that area (Directed Energy Weapons) recently suggests to me there was nothing new to gain from the Soviets after their collapse.


the russian expert means they tested similiar system in 1972 , but began full deployment


Pick your words carefully though, there's a big difference between the two.

TESTING could mean it wasn't even mounted onto any mobile platform they were simply doing laboratory research, or it was in the very early stages of prototypical construction.

DEPLOYMENT suggests they had developed fully functional lasers that could actually be used in battle and presumably had been mounted onto a mobile platform with it's own power source.
Now THAT is harder to believe.

If they were simply playing around with chemical lasers in 1972, I can accept that, if they had them ready-to-use for battle mounted onto tanks and planes in 1972, that I don't believe.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 03:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by Lambo Rider
 



So you and your "hypothetical" thinking want us to believe you tather than those sources, about what Russia has,


My reasoning and factual thinking is far more believable than some blog and online forum about Nuclear Missiles.
I don't care who wrote them, 2 websites does not prove to me that something is 100% true.
You want to believe any you get off the Net, fine by me, just don't say nobody warned you though when things you start believing in turn out to be utter garbage.

You think the Americans are the only masters of propaganda? lol

Right the Russians never took a penny off a sidewalk, they wouldn't lie.

"We don't have Nuclear Missiles in Cuba...."

Ring any bells?

Get your head out of the sand mate and reread those sources carefully, I think you need to be a tad more critical of what you take in.

Oh and I'm not a "Yank" there by the way, maybe you need glasses...
See where it says "Location" on my avatar, what's that say?

[edit on 24/7/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]


the moment you said that russia never had better technology than the US and couldnt possibly beat america in research, I stopped taking you seriously. You already forgot all the russian achievements in space?

The thing in the west we love to brag about our latests gadgets and make it look like others are too much in awe and cant possibly compete.
I laughed when i saw the mass media (CNN) covering the russian military parade. Before it started they said how much the russian army was old and outdated and right when the show started, they cut the footage and didnt show the hardware. I switched to a less biased channel and could see that russia actually has a lot of newer better vehicles and equipment than the US does. Too many people here are really clueless.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 03:59 PM
link   
Like any of us knows whos more advanced in what?

THe most advanced stuf is so buried in black ops research..its ridiculous. How do we know based on released info. That could just be disinfo to scare the enemies.

The US doesnt even know how much technology it has. THere are so many divisions and groups...they dont share all their secrets. Sometimes two US groups are developping the same tech. without even knowing of the other. What a waste of money.

Who cares whos more advanced. I guarantee when the US is forced to bring out its whole arsenal....we can really do some sick things to the whole world....and thats not cool.

If all the big countries start nuking, taking out electronics with EMP, and lasering up the joint..........I think the whole world will have to clean their shorts.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 04:12 PM
link   
reply to post by TheOracle
 



the moment you said that russia never had better technology than the US and couldnt possibly beat america in research, I stopped taking you seriously.


Sigh

See this?


And the Russians trailed in the US is just about about every high-tech weapons department.
They simply didn't have the luxury of resources to spend on projects which may not actually develop realistic, practical weaponary.

Where exactly did I say as you claim:
Russia > USA?

I said the Russians were trailing behind the US in most areas I never said they couldn't make better technology, they did, but civilian space programs are a far cry from laser weaponry don't you agree? For the most part the US had the advantage in technology.

Especially when it came to automated systems, computers, electronics and software. Russia developed all that much later.

Next time wipe your lenses, no offence.


I switched to a less biased channel and could see that russia actually has a lot of newer better vehicles and equipment than the US does.


So you can tell that Russian vehicles and weapons are superior to US ones just by looking at them?

My, that's quite a trained eye you have... Were you an aerial spotter in the air force or something?
I think not.

We're talking about Directed Energy Weapons here. NOT vehicles.
Completely unrelated topic. Russia's ground forces are about on par with everything America has to offer, the discrepancy is in all these cutting-edge, advanced projects, to which America has the advantage.

Apples and Oranges. Any country can build 4 wheels, armour and a big cannon; we're talking about directed-energy weapons like chemical lasers which allegedly had the power to knock planes out of the sky... in 1972.
Not too many countries could have accomplished that.
Especially not one with an old-school mentality that believed in the adage of "bigger is better" and were barely able to keep their huge arsenal of tanks and planes actually running, let alone mounting lasers onto them.

Take a look the Russian arsenal today: Evident of years of neglect.
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.jamestown.org...
edition.cnn.com...
www.jamestown.org...


Too many people here are really clueless.


Hah.
Speak for yourself seriously.
You come into this debate half way through, you don't even read my previous posts, you misquoted me, you offer some drivel you saw on television as proof that the Russian arsenal is superior to the American one and then you call me "clueless".
Rich. Real rich.

Read what I posted before carefully, too many things just simply don't add up. It's my conclusion that this article is bs.
You don't believe me fine, don't label me ignorant though, because what you just said sounds like something an 8th grader could write up for a Cold War Relations essay.

Note: Pull head out of sand!

[edit on 24/7/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 05:02 PM
link   
well lets see

T-90> Abrams
KA-52> Cobra
T98> Hummer
Topol M> minuteman
SA400> patriot
SU-25> A-10
and so on

actually a lot of american equipment is 80s technology while the russian counterparts were designed AFTER. Hardly an outdated army.
too lazy to post all the links, look for it yourself in google.

And the military parade was commented by military specialists. The russian showed some pretty high tech stuff, but american media conveniently skipped it after claiming that russian equipment was cold war era and falling into pieces

ATS: Deny Ignorance


[edit on 24-7-2008 by TheOracle]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 05:20 PM
link   
reply to post by onlyhurtsu
 



I agree. I can only imagine what the US has behind closed doors. It is always funny how fast technological advances happen. Some prototype comes out and a few years later the technology has been advanced so far it seem as though it would be impossible. This is probably just part of disclosure. Plus if russian had such high technological advances in laser weapons I highly doubt they would care if we were placing a missle defense system near them. I sure their lasers could just pulvurize our missles. Seeing they are so further advanced in Laser technology. And I do not think that our missle defense systems can shot down laser weapons or plasma weapons.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 05:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheOracle
well lets see

T-90> Abrams
KA-52> Cobra
T98> Hummer
Topol M> minuteman
SA400> patriot
SU-25> A-10
and so on

ATS: Deny Ignorance


[edit on 24-7-2008 by TheOracle]


T-90> Abrams
KA-52> Cobra
T98> Hummer
Topol M> minuteman
SA400> patriot
SU-25> A-10
and so on

Falcon Tech. > all the above
We will see what america has. They are getting ride of all those weapons now. You will be seeing a whole bunch of new weapon systems and missles coming out in the next few years.
Here are a few
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.defensetech.org...
Oh and dont forget about Falcon Technology

www.guardian.co.uk...
www.cdi.org...
www.nytimes.com...

I am not trying to brag about the USA capabilities but seeing you claim all their systems are more advanced then what the USA has. It took them 20 years to develop half those weapons. That updates there arsenal. Wait till the USA updates theirs over the next couple of years. It is going to be scary.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:32 PM
link   
According to Vladimir Terziski, the nazis did have them to



greyfalcon.us...

www.world-famous.com...

archive.alienzoo.com...

According to Vladimir Terziski, the nazis did already landed on the moon in 1942 and on Mars in 1946.
Do you know this man, Mr. Lear?

The antigravity research goes back in early 20th century, and the firsts of major prototypes were build in late 20s. The allied bombers did avoided to bombard football field saucers during the war that were constructed in the crumbling Third reich. So, Sir, what is the possibility that the alien case/Roswell UFO Incident in 1947 is hoaxed? Because in the same year admiral Byrd encountered nazi UFOs in the Antarctica expedition with his army of 4000 man.

P.S. And also according to him, the US and the Soviets have done a joint venture to Mars in 1951 and a base in 1956 But according to you all of this happened 10 years later. So, where is the truth?

And maybe you can tell me if this were japanese saucers build with german materials



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:35 PM
link   
and sorry for putting Mr. Lear in there


but you guys here keep up the good work that you all are doing


have a nice day



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 08:30 PM
link   
Chemical based laser tech is actually quite primitive laser tech.


As for the US "playing catch up".


Now there are three parts to that video. Does anyone honestly still think the US is playing "catch up" in regards to laser technology?



To the Orical (You are horribly uneducated on the matter) and Mr. Monsoon (Who parrots soviet propaganda so nicely, and stellar is a horrible source for you to use. When he is presented with facts that contradict his biased view, he simply stops responding).

Soviet equipment has always come in a distantsecond when facing superior American made equipment, History does not lie, but rather reinforces this fact.

As for military dominance, the US holds a clear distinct advantage over anyone in the world (currently). It is my believe, amongst many others who share the same view, that the US forces of 2015-2020 will make the worlds militarys obsolete against avastly superior US forces. Instead of parroting what I have said in the past (I lack the patience), I will post the video of the superiority I speak of.


Google Video Link


In the end, it will be "Full Spectrum Dominance" over any adversary, both now, and in the future.

(The above video was made using quotes entirely from DARPA, which ironically have since been taken down. All in all a good video that speaks incredible volumes as to the absolute power the US forces will command in the coming decade.)

[edit on 24-7-2008 by West Coast]

[edit on 24-7-2008 by West Coast]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 08:36 PM
link   
"If you want peace, prepare for war."

Anyone who doesn't believe that that is true, I'll leave you to think about it a little longer.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 08:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by West Coast
Chemical based laser tech is actually quite primitive laser tech.


As for the US "playing catch up".


Now there are three parts to that video. Does anyone honestly still think the US is playing "catch up"?



[edit on 24-7-2008 by West Coast]
Yes

1. "The Soviets built high-energy laser devices in the 1980s and generally placed more emphasis on the weapons applications of lasers than did the West. The tactical laser program had progressed to the point that by the mid-1980s, U.S. analysts anticipated that laser weapons would be deployed with future Soviet forces."
1. www.dia.mil...

"We have right now, I believe, one weapons-grade laser operating in the United States. The Soviets have at least ten we have identified and there may be more. At Los Alamos right now our scientists are working on developing a very compact particle accelerator. This is vital work toward the development of something you have all heard about, a particle beam weapon of some kind. At the heart of that system is a Soviet invention dating back to the 1960s called a radio frequency quadrapole. Years ago, the Soviets mysteriously decided that there would be no more literature, open or semi-open, on this or any similar development. Such information suddenly disappeared from these vaunted scientific exchanges that we hear are so important. Of course, the Soviets exchange very little information that is vital to them in these so-called exchanges, anyway."
2. www.heritage.org...

"Particle-beam weapons inflict damage in a similar way. They emit beams of particles, perhaps hydrogen or deuterium ions, at near-light speed. Details remain sketchy, but the principle is essentially the same as in an ion-propulsion system (New Scientist, 21 November 1998, p 22). A working particle beam is believed to have been on board the mysterious Soviet "battlestar" Polyus-Skif, which was launched in May 1987 but crashed during take-off. Polyus-Skif also carried a prototype laser for destroying satellites. In the US, research on particle-beam weapons continues at the High Energy Research and Technology Facility on Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico."
3. www.jamesoberg.com...


"In 1983 flight trials of the approximately 60t laser device commenced on an Ilyushin Il-76MD heavylift transport. At the same time research was being carried out on the propagation of laser beams in the atmosphere.

Starting at the end of the 1960s, the Russians also developed ground-based nuclear laser systems for combating spacecraft. Unlike the American x-ray lasers, they could be used several times over. The programme was terminated after the USSR announced a unilateral moratorium on trials of the space defence system and the puzzling deaths of the two project managers in the mid-1980s.

The mobile Pamir-SU electro-generator, with an output of 15MW and a mass of around 20t, could supply power to long-range lasers and ultra-high-frequency weapon systems. It could be used both on the Earth and also in space. In 1994/1995 this equipment was sold to the USA"
4. www.flug-revue.rotor.com...

5. www.uscc.gov...

"U.S. Fears Satellites Damaged
Peter G. Neumann
Sun 24 Jan 88 14:10:34-PST

Subtitle -- Soviets used lasers to cripple equipment, sources contend.

Washington, by Richard Sale (UPI, 24 January 1988).

U.S. intelligence agencies are convinced Soviet laser attacks have damaged
supersophisticated U.S. spy satellites deployed to monitor missile and
spacecraft launches, administration sources said."
6. catless.ncl.ac.uk...



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 09:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lambo Rider

Originally posted by West Coast
Chemical based laser tech is actually quite primitive laser tech.


As for the US "playing catch up".


Now there are three parts to that video. Does anyone honestly still think the US is playing "catch up"?



[edit on 24-7-2008 by West Coast]
Yes



I am sure you think that, forgive me, but I am curios as to how you of all people, Mr. Lambo rider, would honestly know any better?

According to your sources, there is no solid evidence that reinforces such an argument.

I think Ret. Colonel John Alexander (former program director of LOS ALAMOS National Laboratory, according to him, the US has been working on such weaponry for the past several decades as well.) would know better than you.
Forgive me If I take his word over yours.




[edit on 24-7-2008 by West Coast]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by Lambo Rider

Originally posted by West Coast
Chemical based laser tech is actually quite primitive laser tech.


As for the US "playing catch up".


Now there are three parts to that video. Does anyone honestly still think the US is playing "catch up"?



[edit on 24-7-2008 by West Coast]
Yes



I am sure you think that, forgive me, but I am curios as to how you of all people, Mr. Lambo rider, would honestly know any better?

According to your sources, there is no solid evidence that reinforces such an argument.

I think Ret. Colonel John Alexander (former program director of LOS ALAMOS National Laboratory, according to him, the US has been working on such weaponry for the past several decades as well.) would know better than you.
Forgive me If I take his word over yours.




[edit on 24-7-2008 by West Coast]
There's a differencen between "working on them" from having them developed and deployed, which my links are stating, so what was that your saying.



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 12:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by Lambo Rider
There's a differencen between "working on them" from having them developed and deployed,


The technological infrastructure did not exist during the 80's (mere tests, does not make an effective deployable weapon system), making your claims of deployable 'soviet lasers' highly suspect to further scrutiny.



which my links are stating,


Without delving to much into your questionable links, they state that the soviets "blinded" US satellites, (damaging censors, etc), something the US and Soviets were known to be doing to one another at that time (something the Chinese have been accused of doing today. etc).


In regards to your initial claim, (I would add a rather ignorant claim) the questionably links state nothing of the sort. Or need I remind you of your claim which was rather outrageous. You were the one who said the US was "behind". So do proceed to clarify why you think the US is behind?

Also, in regards to your sources, they are not very substantial either, so you should help yourself out by providing better data that is substantiated proof to what you claim.



so what was that your saying.


I am sure that those four "lol" smiley's helped to reinforce your "solid" argument. /sarcasm

tee hee


[edit on 25-7-2008 by West Coast]



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 12:18 AM
link   
I fully beleive that the Soviets were TESTING laser weapons, but by no means capable of using them with any real effect.

The US was rapidly superior in technology than the Soviets. That's why they relied on quanity and size. Their bombs were big and their army huge, but they weren't "advanced".

Of course, the Space Race is another story, but we "won" that anyway after a decade or so.



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 12:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by August Sonereal
I fully beleive that the Soviets were TESTING laser weapons, but by no means capable of using them with any real effect.

The US was rapidly superior in technology than the Soviets. That's why they relied on quanity and size. Their bombs were big and their army huge, but they weren't "advanced".


Once the F117 was revealed, the soviets knew they could no longer compete with the United States, the US won the cold war due to superior technology.

Another reason why the soviets collapsed was because there military was to big. The soviets favored a rather primitive military mind set, in that, they had a vast standing army, and vast armored carriers. This mindset proved to be expensive, and obsolete.

Ive always said Russia was a partial superpower. And thus, was not a true one.


Of course, the Space Race is another story, but we "won" that anyway after a decade or so.


The soviets were ahead at first, but this all ended when the US decided to put a man on the moon.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by West Coast]





new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join