Mini 14, Bushmaster or Kalashnikov...which makes the most sense for all around survival weapon?

Thought some of you guys might get a kick out of this.

Talk about reliability and durability, good god. I love that sound.





[edit on 8/1/08 by BlackOps719]

[edit on 8/1/08 by BlackOps719]

Great way to ruin a $10,000 plus rifle. those barrels don't change out easy and its a full blown project to repair one. Must be nice to have that kind of coin where you can throw away thousands in minutes.

On a side note USGI frang .223 is up to $460 per 1,000 as of this morning and $499 for winchester delivered. Makes that $199 7.62x39 look pretty good.

reply to post by Illahee
Oops, my bad. Guess it's been a while since i've looked at different manufacturers of ammo.

reply to post by Anuubis


No big deal. Unless you watch this stuff all the time the whole climate shifts. There is so much warehouse stock piled up its unreal, but the people that own it just meter it out onto the market a little at a time to keep the prices up. Look at all the Uzi and Sten parts that are showing up 20 years after we thought they were gone. The tripled and quadrupled while we weren't paying attention but they are back and lots of them.

reply to post by Illahee
Good ole american greed

reply to post by Anuubis


All the big three ammo makers, Federal,Winchester and Remington, make reloadable 7.62x39mm ammo and bullets. I bought 500 Lapua cases years ago and still haven't gone through 100 cases yet. I've loaded some cases 10-12 times. As long as you full length resize and keep loads below the max pressures by at least a grain or two of powder.

I've been reloading the SKS round for about 15 years. I do it to get the maximum accuracy and best terminal performance. This means using heavier bullets. SKS and AK's use a twist of around 1-9.5" which will stabilize bullets up to 220 grains in weight. I've loaded both cast and jacketed bullets. The case is big enough to drive the 220 grain cast bullets to 1600 fps which is about as fast as you push most cast bullets without getting lead build-up on the gas port. Jacketed bullets as heavy as 200 grains can be pushed to 2000 fps but 150-180 grain soft and hollow point bullets are more plentiful and can be driven 2100-2200 fps level without excess pressure. They are accurate and effective out to 300 yards on all manner of large game. I load 220 grain cast bullets to 1000 fps(subsonic) and they will still cycle the action. It's a quiet hunting load that will still take down wild boar out to 100 yards without alerting other hunters 200 yards away. .308 caliber, 180 grain round nose, soft point bullets can be driven to about 2100 fps and can take down just about any antlered game out to 200 yards. It is a great all-around hunting load that close matches the .30-30 Win. in power.

.223 Winchester is just too small a caliber for hunting game larger than about 120 pounds past 100 yards. Even with heavy premium bullets in the 60-80 grain weight class(requiring the 1-7.5" twist rate barrels are considered a minimally effective on whitetail deer and completely ill suited for wild boar. They are great for small game but I'll take the old Russian warhorse SKS round anyday for hunting over the knitting needle .223's

reply to post by crgintx
My mini-14 isn't for hunting large game, it's for fending off two legged predators. For big game i have a 30-06, 30-30 win, .50 cal. muzzle loader, three 12 ga., four bows and a crossbow. To make your brass last longer only resize the neck if it only gets shot in one weapon. By resizing the whole case you constantly stretch and shrink the metal and will eventually cause micro fractures that could cause them to tear in half when ejected. If you only size the neck your cases will perfectly match the chamber and you'll get better accuracy and at least another 5 reloads out of them.

Originally posted by Anuubis
To make your brass last longer only resize the neck if it only gets shot in one weapon. By resizing the whole case you constantly stretch and shrink the metal and will eventually cause micro fractures that could cause them to tear in half when ejected. If you only size the neck your cases will perfectly match the chamber and you'll get better accuracy and at least another 5 reloads out of them.

This is a fact folks. if you reload and use the same brass in the same gun you can make it go a long ways if you listen to this sage advice.

reply to post by Illahee
Thank you. My dad taught me that thirty years ago.

reply to post by Anuubis


The OP's intent seems to me about which would be better as a "single" weapon for a survival scenario in the US.

I full length resize only as needed. You should always check you cases for length(stretch) after each firing during your inspection and depriming. I was fortunate that my favorite SKS has a slightly tighter chamber than my other SKS. I'll take a larger caliber over a smaller caliber any day of the week. My exception to this rule is that I greatly prefer the 7.62x25mm Tokarev over the 9mm Parabellum in milsurp auto pistol. I've never had a stovepipe or misfeed with my CZ-52 pistol. I greatly suspect that this is due to the bottleneck design of the Tokarev case. Notice the the new PDW being adopted in Europe, 5.7x28mm FN, is also a bottleneck cartridge. The US Army is fed up once again with the .355"/9mm caliber
and is returning to the .45 ACP.

For all around survival rounds, it's tough to beat the .44 Magnum or .45 Colt(in modern steel weapons). Both rounds are deadly to 2-legged varmints at much greater distances than most folks can shoot accurately. This is true even when fired from a 4-6" barreled revolver. I've seen hot loaded .45 Colt from a handgun knock down heavy steel silhouettes at 500 yards that laugh at .223 from an AR-15. Something about about a 255-325 grain bullet moving at over 1100 fps just seems to do the trick. From a long barreled lever guns, both cartridges literally swat down wild boar that are usually pretty tough critters to bring down.

All this slamming of the .223 have any of you folks who love the bigger calibers ever consider just how close your average target is going to be. On average you are not going to see a bad guy until he is close to you. Same thing with hunting, animals. I am a life long white tail deer hunter. Most of the deer I have taken have been very close range.

Ever see what is left of a noisy squirrel when it is hit with a 30-06. Long story don't ask.

My point is most of the time a smaller caliber is more useful if all you have is a single survival rifle.

reply to post by angryamerican


AA, I wouldn't consider the 7.62x39mm a large caliber. I load a .312 60 grain cast pistol bullets sized to .310 caliber with a few grains of Blue Dot powder to about 1000 fps for small game. It won't cycle the action, so I've got basically a straight pull bolt gun when loading for small game. Falling back on my Ammo experience, I paint the noses blue to distinguish them from my other loads. It doesn't affect their accuracy at all.

Let me paint a scenario here for you: after years of economic decline and over hunting, you're forced into some far back country in search of some decent sized game to feed the rest of your family or fellow survivors. It's early fall or late spring. You've spotted a decent sized deer that we'll feed the group well for a week. You bag the beast and are in the process of hauling it back to the camp/retreat when out pops a rather hungry looking black bear that is a large and aggressive male. You can give up your deer to the bear but you would have wasted a bullet, some of your time and come home hungry. You fire upon the bear with a .223 chambered weapon, possibly hitting it twice before the charging bear knocks you down and proceeds to make a meal out of both you and the deer you just killed. Replay the scenario with an AK-47 and you get the deer and the bear and your group eats well for a month. That is of course if the bear doesn't take you completely by surprise which they are famous for doing to many well armed hunters. The heavier caliber isn't going to guarantee your survival or success when hunting but it will give you bigger margin of error with bigger game like boar, elk or bear. BTW If you're hunting in bear country, you should take a friend with a 12 gage shotgun loaded with slugs.

How flat is a .223? I was eyeballing a a 700bdl, bull barrel .223 today at a gun show. Looked like a great varmit set up. Would a 22-250 be a better choice?
Thanks

reply to post by crgintx
Never shot a Tokerev, but i like my 9mm so was never interested in another small caliber pistol. My next pistol, which will be my primary, is going to be a Springfield XD45 tactical.

reply to post by Pinktip
The .22-250 shoots a lot faster and flatter than a .223 but is 2 to 3 times more expensive to shoot. Oh and get a Savage Tactical, they're a lot more accurate and a lot cheaper.



[edit on 2-8-2008 by Anuubis]

reply to post by crgintx
Man, i dont know where you live but the black bears here in north idaho are not aggresive. I hunt every year and have came across countless blacks and never been charged. About 4 years ago my wife and i went out grouse hunting and seen a beautiful black with a cinnamon face and stood about 20 feet from it while it ate huckleberries. Now as far as everyone arguing about what is the best single survival weapon, there is no such thing. If you carry a small caliber rifle, then carry a large caliber handgun. If you carry a small caliber handgun then carry a large rifle.

Rabies explains them charging ,Up here in the wild wild Canadian frontier ,they run from you. Only in the spring and summer we hear of bears attacking people.Of course thats to protect their young.

Let me tell you Black bears can run .

machine guns are next to useless for hunting

and if your thinking on using it on people your going to be shot !

Originally posted by solo1
Rabies explains them charging ,Up here in the wild wild Canadian frontier ,they run from you. Only in the spring and summer we hear of bears attacking people.Of course thats to protect their young.

Let me tell you Black bears can run .

machine guns are next to useless for hunting

and if your thinking on using it on people your going to be shot !

Not always. Most attacks happen when people are in the woods and startle them. It's just a defensive reaction.

reply to post by angryamerican
Urban combat- about thirty yards. Rural combat-100 to 300 yards average.

I will say it again in a "survival" situation you can't beat a .22 rifle. If it is defense situation that is a different story.

respppectfully

reluctantpawn