"Jesus is a liar"

Jesus Christ never existed. All religion is just based off of pagan sun worship. Thats why so many religions are so similar. Because there all based on the same thing. Worship of the sun. Anyone who hasn't, I reccomend them to watch the movie Zeitgeist, They explain about religion in the first part of the movie.

reply to post by WarBow

...even when he is ruling from Jerusalem as the promised Messiah.

Did it ever occur to you that this is the foretold Anti-Christ?
The promised Messiah already came to Jerusalem, 2000 years ago.
This is the NWO/Neo-Con religion, that you seem to be espousing.
Why do you think I spend all this time writing to contradict this philosophy?
The real Messiah came and glorified God.
The false messiah will come and claim to be God, for his own glory.

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
"Jesus never claimed to be God"??????

You guys don't know your scripture too well....


John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

John 10:30 - "I and the Father are one."

As is true for us all. Who wrote John by the way?


Did you read anything in my post above other than that?

John of course, Jesus told his disciples to record what they saw and heard. I don't see how that is relevant. If John McCain delivers a speech and CNN reports what he said we assume that is what McCain said even though we didn't hear him utter the words himself. The gospels are a testimony of what the disciples saw and heard. It's their testimony.

And I was not singling you out, this thread is littered with posts from people claiming Jesus never claimed to be God. That's gross ignorance of the scriptures.

If Jesus never claimed to be God then why was he killed?

Originally posted by AgnosticX
Jesus Christ never existed. All religion is just based off of pagan sun worship. Thats why so many religions are so similar. Because there all based on the same thing. Worship of the sun. Anyone who hasn't, I reccomend them to watch the movie Zeitgeist, They explain about religion in the first part of the movie.

And what about the secular accounts of Jesus Christ?

Are you aware historians other than those in the scripture also attest to the fact Jesus did in fact walk the Earth?

It appears not. Google "secular accounts of Jesus Christ".

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarBow

 

...even when he is ruling from Jerusalem as the promised Messiah.

Did it ever occur to you that this is the foretold Anti-Christ?
The promised Messiah already came to Jerusalem, 2000 years ago.
This is the NWO/Neo-Con religion, that you seem to be espousing.
Why do you think I spend all this time writing to contradict this philosophy?
The real Messiah came and glorified God.
The false messiah will come and claim to be God, for his own glory.

That is not what Revelation says. Jesus himself says there will be a 1,000 year reign on Earth, from Jerusalem. Where Satan is bound in chains and is to spend that 1,000 years in the Abyss, only to be loosed for one last feeble attempt to wage war against God.

And he'll loses aaagain, just like he has throughout his history.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Despite his popularity and unquestioned existence, there is not the slightest bit of physical evidence to support a historical Jesus - no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus.

In addition, there is not a single contemporary (ie secular) piece of documentation that mentions Jesus. All documents regarding Jesus were written well after (AFTER) the alleged life of Jesus by either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

All reliable evidence for the historical actuality of Jesus Christ are purely hearsay.

hear·say

noun 1.unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge

The ONLY reason why I'm posting on this is just to tell you this.....


Until you have a person experience with the Master himself...you'll ALWAYS be a skeptic..

and usually when people post this kind of stuff it's for 1 of 3 things..

~they got burned/hurt in church by someone and now blame God for everthing..
~a family member hurt or abused them.. and they blame God..

~or.. they've never gave God a chance or actually talked to him personally and asked him .. (prayer)

and no I didn't read the entire post.. the title alone was enough..

what does jesus symbolized to any of you, in my opinion after thinking for few days, he probably symbolized life or love or both but i choose life.
jesus died but he is still alive in different frequency, he love you as much as you love your life, meaning your life and jesus are intertwine.
he forgive those who forgive others, meaning he is part of everyone and when you forgive others you forgive yourself as well which is how jesus forgiveness works.
loving your life is part of jesus is good but to love all parts jesus is to love all life.
mayan's calendar is similar to having history written down, what really happen in the past can't be change but lies can be added.
since he came to fulfill, meaning he is the hope in which we believe as we are nearing the time of ascendtion.
just as we see the universe through telescope we see the past(or were we?:puz we are living in a past but we know are here in the present so the least could do is delay NWO.

Originally posted by AgnosticX
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Despite his popularity and unquestioned existence, there is not the slightest bit of physical evidence to support a historical Jesus - no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus.

In addition, there is not a single contemporary (ie secular) piece of documentation that mentions Jesus. All documents regarding Jesus were written well after (AFTER) the alleged life of Jesus by either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

All reliable evidence for the historical actuality of Jesus Christ are purely hearsay.

hear·say

noun 1.unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge

Oh, you like definitions?

pa·tron·ize (ptr-nz, ptr-)
tr.v. pa·tron·ized, pa·tron·iz·ing, pa·tron·iz·es
1. To act as a patron to; support or sponsor.
2. To go to as a customer, especially on a regular basis.
3. To treat in a condescending manner.

Now that that is out of the way..


Secular accounts of Jesus Christ.

Komodo,

Very insightful post...

To second that....JC said, "if you seek me with all your heart, I'll draw you to me!" What an encouraging thought, huh?

Thx for contributing to the discussion!!!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


There was a reason i had put the word after in all caps. All these so called acounts of christ are all after he "died". There are no accounts of christ during his actual "life". Everything about christ in your list were all people who spke of him after his "death", after christianity had already started. You don't have to be mad, but the guy just didn't exist, sorry.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That is not what Revelation says. Jesus himself says there will be a 1,000 year reign on Earth, from Jerusalem. Where Satan is bound in chains and is to spend that 1,000 years in the Abyss, only to be loosed for one last feeble attempt to wage war against God.

Seriously?
Is that what you think?
Let me make up a little scenario and tell me if I get it wrong.

God locks Satan, the deceiver, and therefore human kind can be free to act good and overcome their hatred for God.
A man comes forward and produces plans for righting the problems of the world.
He goes to Jerusalem and takes up a throne on the Temple Mount.
The world sees how great things are, by following the advice given.
They recognize the man's greatness and proclaim him king.
The man says, "Great, and thanks, but I am really God, and you should worship me."

This is the story of the Anti-Christ.
Someone has deluded you in to believing in something that is the opposite of what the Bible teaches.


[edit on 24-7-2008 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by Zaimless
d) The Dead Sea Scrolls contain even more facts that are not being revealed to the public and are being kept hidden from us. Meaning there is more to this story than we know.

A LOT more to the story... The Year 1947... Something BIG happened that year... 1947 is a nexus...

In December 1945, an Arab peasant discovered the Nag Hammadi codices concealed in a jar in a cave in Upper Egypt, near Thebes (Luxor), but it was not until June 1947 that a French scholar, Jean Doresse, recognized what the documents were.

In the same summer of 1947, a Bedouin shephard discovered the first of a massive cache of parchments and scrolls in the cave at Khirbet Qumran, overlooking the Dead Sea, about 30 miles south of Jerusalem.

Primary chronological nexus: the Nag Hammadi Codices (NHC) and the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) emerged from two thousand years of obscurity in the same historical moment.

Concept and work by John Lash www.metahistory.org...

1947
Invention of the holograph

The creation of the CIA and Operation Majestic

Admiral Byrd's 'invasion' of Antarctica (possible NAZI UFO involvement)

Mt Rainier Incident June 1947
The beginning of the modern UFO era is often traced back to June 24, 1947, when businessman Kenneth Arnold sighted "a formation of very bright objects" while flying over the Cascade mountains of Washington State. This was the first time we heard "Flying Saucer"

Roswell Incident July 1947 One month later

1947, including the i, and the famous wave of UFO sightings including the alleged crash in Roswell, New Mexico.

Paris peace treaties are signed between the World War II Allies and Italy, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland: Italy cedes most of Istria to Yugoslavia.

A meteor creates a crater in Sikhote-Alin, Soviet Union.

The International Monetary Fund begins to operate.

Exodus (ship) departs France to Palestine with 4,500 Jewish Holocaust survivor refugees.

Originally posted by OldThinkerTRUTH IS VERY PREJUDICE, 2 AND 2 IS ALWAYS 4.

2 PLUS 2 is 4....

2 AND 2 could be 22

Truth is not absolute... it is relative to the facts... and mankind does not yet have all the facts to decide what is or is not the 'TRUTH".

Originally posted by AgnosticX
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

There was a reason i had put the word after in all caps. All these so called acounts of christ are all after he "died". There are no accounts of christ during his actual "life". Everything about christ in your list were all people who spke of him after his "death", after christianity had already started. You don't have to be mad, but the guy just didn't exist, sorry.

That's not sound logic though.

What does a historian do? Records events of the past. Also, just because the work itself was written after, doesn't mean the knowledge of him wasn't known until the author sat down with pen in hand.

Cornelius Tacitus (AD55-120) wrote that Pilate sentenced this Jesus to death.

He was the foremost Roman historian of his time. The Annuls were written 14 years after Christ's death. Are we to assume this great historian couldn't get his facts straight a mere 14 years after the fact?

No serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus. ~~ Otto Betz

Now, obviously people can question the Divinity of Jesus Christ, but to question if he did in fact even exist at all is astoundingly foolish.

Zorgon, interesting post on the yr 1947...also wasn't the Air Force created that year...what's the connection to Christ's deity debate?

22? I'm too old...I didn't have the benefit of the "new math" taught in public schools these days...just a joke I see you point.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

That is not what Revelation says. Jesus himself says there will be a 1,000 year reign on Earth, from Jerusalem. Where Satan is bound in chains and is to spend that 1,000 years in the Abyss, only to be loosed for one last feeble attempt to wage war against God.

Seriously?
Is that what you think?
Let me make up a little scenario and tell me if I get it wrong.

God locks Satan, the deceiver, and therefore human kind can be free to act good and overcome their hatred for God.
A man comes forward and produces plans for righting the problems of the world.
He goes to Jerusalem and takes up a throne on the Temple Mount.
The world sees how great things are, by following the advice given.
They recognize the man's greatness and proclaim him king.
The man says, "Great, and thanks, but I am really God, and you should worship me."

This is the story of the Anti-Christ.
Someone has deluded you in to believing in something that is the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

All except for this, when Jesus sets up his millennial kingdom on Earth the antichrist will have already been revealed 7 years prior. And he will come to destroy that already revealed antichrist. You are correct though, the FIRST time those events pan out is a counterfeit. The second time it happens it is the real Christ.

The antichrist cannot counterfeit something that will never happen.

Originally posted by AgnosticX...there is not the slightest bit of physical evidence to support a historical Jesus -

Well there is the 'Holy Grail' the bloodline of Jesus and Mary Magdalene

But then... that is another can of Worms

Originally posted by Komodo
and no I didn't read the entire post.. the title alone was enough..

Well you should have as NONE of your 'reasons' apply to anyone in this thread so far as I can tell

This has actually been a very informative and rational thread no matter what 'side' your on... quite an achievement all...

Lets keep it that way shall we?

(that ignore button is close at hand )

[edit on 24-7-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Number 7 on your list josephus, has known to be a forgery for hundreds of years. And all the others on the list refer to christus or chrestus which is a title it means the anointed. None of them refer to "jesus" christ. And there were historians that lived "during" the life of christ, around the same areas he was supposed to have been. Such as:

1.Philo Judaeus 20bc-50ad
2.Phaedrus 15bc-50ad
3.Livy 59bc-17ad
4.Seneca 4bc-65 ad

If someone had such a huge following and was performing miracles, don't you think someone would write about him during his "Life"? Someone that caused so much trouble during his time would have been written about during his life. And 14 years is a long time.