reply to post by OldThinker
You are correct, there is only 2 alternatives-either He was who he said he was or he wasn't. If he was fiction then disregard most of what he
said.
If he was real then pay close attention to what he said, particularly in reference to the 'latter times' DYOR but the best, most readable version
of the Bible I have seen so far is 'The Message'. It is written in modern language, more like a novel, with intelligent forewords preceding each
book. These help to give background and setting for what follows.
And one last word:- don't confuse God with religion, they are 2 different topics.
If one fails to differentiate between the two, that person will deny themselves an opportunity to learn about the past, the present problems and the
final grand solution.
Don't let personal prejudice get in the way of proper research, and don't believe everything you believe-PROVE everything for yourself. If you
can't prove something keep an open mind until you can. Regards from OZ.
"Jesus is a liar", page 4
privacy
reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 11:26 AM by Ggurl777
reply to post by THE-LURKER
But he said he was god and also called god he father so he gave birth to himself.
But he said he was god and also called god he father so he gave birth to himself.
reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 12:01 PM by Quazga
reply to post by OldThinker
Actually, Jesus never claimed to be God.
Keep in mind, that while he was interrogtaed by the Sanhedrin, that he would never deny what his followers said about him in order to save himself. And I think that is the huge piece.
Jesus understood that a persons perspective played a HUGE role in their subjective experience. When the lady poured oil on his head, and his disciples got upset about it, he basically said "Hey if thats how she wants to worship and feel close to God, then let her, she aint hurtin' anyone!"
So it makes sense that since he placed the subjective reality of his followers higher than he placed his own (the real sacrifice in my opinion), that he was not attempting to deal with any "objective reality".
Therefore, he couldn't be accused of being a liar.
Furthermore, it is probably good to point out that he wanted his followers to have as personal of a relationship with the Father, as he had. He tried to tell them that the kingdom of heaven is right here right now, and to be found within each of us, but not many people got that. So he was the Lamb of God, the one who must be sacrificed, the only medium between the collective experience of the objective world, a footstool kingdom, and his individual experience of the subjective world, the Kingdom of Heaven. Truly he is the only way to that.
He danced with reality, as he played out the last few dramas of his own internal struggles through his relationship with his Disciples which eventually became his Apostles, and the World.
When you work with the subjective experience on such an existential level, you are forced to recognize the power that one's perspective and attitude play on one's reality. Specifically through the power of one's self narrative.
So, to say that Jesus was a Liar, is to call all philosophers, psychologists, and exisistentialists liars as well. You might as well add on coaches and teachers too.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Quazga]
Actually, Jesus never claimed to be God.
Keep in mind, that while he was interrogtaed by the Sanhedrin, that he would never deny what his followers said about him in order to save himself. And I think that is the huge piece.
Jesus understood that a persons perspective played a HUGE role in their subjective experience. When the lady poured oil on his head, and his disciples got upset about it, he basically said "Hey if thats how she wants to worship and feel close to God, then let her, she aint hurtin' anyone!"
So it makes sense that since he placed the subjective reality of his followers higher than he placed his own (the real sacrifice in my opinion), that he was not attempting to deal with any "objective reality".
Therefore, he couldn't be accused of being a liar.
Furthermore, it is probably good to point out that he wanted his followers to have as personal of a relationship with the Father, as he had. He tried to tell them that the kingdom of heaven is right here right now, and to be found within each of us, but not many people got that. So he was the Lamb of God, the one who must be sacrificed, the only medium between the collective experience of the objective world, a footstool kingdom, and his individual experience of the subjective world, the Kingdom of Heaven. Truly he is the only way to that.
He danced with reality, as he played out the last few dramas of his own internal struggles through his relationship with his Disciples which eventually became his Apostles, and the World.
When you work with the subjective experience on such an existential level, you are forced to recognize the power that one's perspective and attitude play on one's reality. Specifically through the power of one's self narrative.
So, to say that Jesus was a Liar, is to call all philosophers, psychologists, and exisistentialists liars as well. You might as well add on coaches and teachers too.
[edit on 24-7-2008 by Quazga]
reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 12:39 PM by For(Home)Country
reply to post by scarletm
I don't get it. People all of the sudden think that Jesus was an invalid guy after reading the "Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot." But of course you will! The guy freakin betrayed the man, of course he is not going to have good things to say about him! And Jesus was not an apocalyptic preacher, he simply preached that we must be read for the end, weather it comes now, in a million years, or fifty years ago. Jesus loved and cared for people (and you would find that if you read Mathew, mark or luke, not just Judas Iscariot or w/e) and he healed people based on faith they had in his father. Jesus wasn't trying to scare people, (although many people would say otherwise) but rather warn them. But hey, what do I know?
Originally posted by zorgon
I find arguing about religion to be like trying to nail jelly into a wall, IMPOSSIBLE.
Its not IMPOSSIBLE All you have to do is freeze the jelly in liquid Nitrogen and then you can drive it into a drywall wall easily...
I don't get it. People all of the sudden think that Jesus was an invalid guy after reading the "Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot." But of course you will! The guy freakin betrayed the man, of course he is not going to have good things to say about him! And Jesus was not an apocalyptic preacher, he simply preached that we must be read for the end, weather it comes now, in a million years, or fifty years ago. Jesus loved and cared for people (and you would find that if you read Mathew, mark or luke, not just Judas Iscariot or w/e) and he healed people based on faith they had in his father. Jesus wasn't trying to scare people, (although many people would say otherwise) but rather warn them. But hey, what do I know?
reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 12:49 PM by scarletm
reply to post by For(Home)Country
I am not basing my conclusion on that Gospel alone. I have done much more study than that.
It was that particular book at this particular time that has me THINKING as opposed to blindly believing.
I am not basing my conclusion on that Gospel alone. I have done much more study than that.
It was that particular book at this particular time that has me THINKING as opposed to blindly believing.
reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 12:57 PM by For(Home)Country
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Ahh yes, you do have a valid point. In a sense, it kind of confuses me. See here:
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
Jesus claims to be God, but at the same time, claims to be God's (His father) son.
In this verse, he claims to be the son of man, or as I interpret it, the Son of God:
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
And finally, in one of the most popular verses of all time, we see that God did send his son whom was infact, Jesus:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
So, as we can see, there is much debate over weather Jesus was God's son, God manifested in Human form, God himself, or all of the above.
Ahh yes, you do have a valid point. In a sense, it kind of confuses me. See here:
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
Jesus claims to be God, but at the same time, claims to be God's (His father) son.
In this verse, he claims to be the son of man, or as I interpret it, the Son of God:
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
And finally, in one of the most popular verses of all time, we see that God did send his son whom was infact, Jesus:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
So, as we can see, there is much debate over weather Jesus was God's son, God manifested in Human form, God himself, or all of the above.
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