Wikileaks Proffers Photo Evidence of Bizarre U.S. Torture, page 5
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 28 times


reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 10:05 AM by Azurus
reply to post by Heike




Good post. I agree with you fully, and I think you brought up some excellent points. As disturbing as the photo is, without much evidence linking to what, where, and who and why, it's nothing more than speculation that will probably do more harm than good.



Unfortunately I have seen this picture and many like it during my time serving with the MP unit who was responsible for the security of Camp Ashraf Iraq. Camp Ashraf housed, and I think still does, the Peoples Mujahideen of Iran, a terrorist organization that used to work for Saddam Hussein. Their officially stated goal is to remove the current government in Iran and to replace it with an Islamo/Marxist style government. The US Military is responsible for keeping the thousands of PMOI members under "house arrest" on Camp Ashraf, while simultaneously protecting them from outside parties in Iraq that wish to do them harm. Members of the PMOI defect from the organization, as it is extremely cult like and strict, and must go to the US element on the camp to ask to defect. Unfortunately, the US is not able to let them leave the camp as the Iraqi Government will not let them live in Iraq. This causes the US to keep them in a detention facility...as they cannot leave the camp. The defectors get tired of being stuck in the camp and often stage scenes like this as a way to protest the US not releasing them from Camp Ashraf. Bottom line: the wounds were self inflicted by the detainee (an Iranian/persian ethnicity) and were meant to act as a sign of protest to the MP guards and other detainees in the camp. The MPs have to take official photographs of the incident and conduct an investigation to ensure that no US persons were involved and that there was no evidence of abuse. The photo is from 2004, I forget which date it was originally taken; it is of a PMOI defector in US custody; and the wounds were self inflicted by the detainee (to sew the mouth shut sybolizing his lack of voice over his current state as a detainee).



[edit on 24-7-2008 by Azurus]


reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 01:28 PM by deltaboy
reply to post by LoneGunMan



Then you should not be complaining about torturing them for killing American troops and civilians would you?



reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 02:04 PM by mental modulator
Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to
post by mental modulator



Originally posted by mental modulator

Just thought,,, does outing Valerie Plame embolden the enemy???


Just a thought.... does publishing the fact that we are tracking bin Laden's satphone calls embolden the enemy?


Ya thats working

The man defeated the most well financed military apparatuses in history... I'd say he has been aware of that for some time.

I just think it is extra wise to disrupt and illuminate entire covert operations and networks.


reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 02:16 PM by mental modulator
Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to
post by LoneGunMan



Then you should not be complaining about torturing them for killing American troops and civilians would you?


Hey Deltaboy,,, we are fighting soulless animals -- How can we maintain the argument that we are the just, right and morally superior if we behave like the animals we extinguish?

If our boys do some things that are less then "good"... well thats the way of war!
Nothing new - It brings out the best and worst in mankind everytime.

But when the fat lard ass politicians start to encourage this and lower the standards of the US - well thats the point when I get angry!


reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 03:00 PM by spookjr
reply to post by Maxmars

The technique used here(if the image is real), looks similar to those used by some cultures in the genital disfuguation used as torture, however it also looks like alot of people that you might see in downtown Seattle on a Saturday night. The expression on his face does not say to me ' I'm in pain', it almost looks like boredom. Not trying to be a jerk here but has this image been authenticated at all?
As a former member of the U.S. military I have seen such torture inflicted by terrorist,insurgents and some tribesman against their own but not by U.S. troops or operatives. Doesnt mean it doesnt happen though, just because I never saw it doesnt mean anything.however in my experience our techniques are more "refined".
Lastly if this image is authentic it means that it was leaked to the press by someone who was present at or near the time it was done, that could only be an operative of the agency inflicting the torture, and I doubt they would take a picture and then leak it to the press. That is most definitly not how such people operate.
The use of what appears to be discarded bits of metal tells me that this is not the work of professional types.
I hope we recieve more info about this regardless though.



[edit on 24-7-2008 by spookjr]



reply posted on 24-7-2008 @ 03:27 PM by Maxmars
reply to post by spookjr



The information on this photo is less than acceptable to me (c-val), I suspect it could have been a disinformation leak, or perhaps not. I certainly haven't the expertise to analyze the photograph itself with any kind of authority.

I hold that WHATEVER this is, it is NOT the work of any US military personnel. I would have to hear a personal confession to believe that one. I am also former military and well-traveled enough to know this is not something we do.

But I have to admit, I would have said the same of Abu Grahib, if I hadn't seen the photographic evidence. But then, there really wasn't mutilation going on their, only dehumanizing humiliation and intimidation tactics - to what end we may never know.


reply posted on 27-7-2008 @ 05:07 PM by mf_luder
reply to post by Maxmars



I personally supervise a team of three interrogators and some other personnel and I can assure you - we do not use these types of things in our interrogations. If you are looking at that picture know that it is at the very least NOT the US Military doing it.
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