Budski, by debating the Iraq war here, you are trolling, as you so love accusing other people of doing. It's easy to run away with political bickering, so I'm just letting you know.


I was thinking more along the lines of dressing some guy up, or using a picture from somewhere else.

I think running with this when we have no idea of its validity is childish. Until we can verify, or at least find some reason to believe that its true, I don't think we can say much.

reply to post by Johnmike

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No I'm not - I didn't bring it up, I was responding to others who brought it up.

It's also well within the boundaries of the OP as anything connected with toirture is also connected with the war as a whole.

You just can't help having a dig can you - now if you've got a problem, tell the mods, file a complaint, do whatever you want.

reply to post by budski

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I just can't help myself!

Nah, I'm not going to lecture you on anything, it doesn't matter much to me. I just saw your posts, and since you have a track record of yelling at people for derailing threads... It was just a friendly reminder. I feel bad enough responding, it's drawing the thread even more off topic.

Looks to me like a psycho freak to me. No proof where this photo was taken. Anyone can post a picture and make up any sort of story with it.

I would behead you if you came to MY country and rape torture and kill MY people. Wouldn't you?

Raising young people with violent video games that teach you to torture and rape. Violent TV and music lyrics that desensitizes our youth so that its easy to find more than just a few. Talk to a few of the stranger looking kids, not just talk but act like what they say is cool and they will open up hell to you. Ive talked to them like that...they LIVE for stuff like this.

What did you think all that violent media was for?

Man am I glad this photo is a fake. It's truly disgusting. but the face piercings look photoshoped to me, and the face bleeds a whole lot like when you get a shaving cut. it bleeds a lot. there would be a lot more swelling where the piercings went through. disturbing though, but I believe anti-american propaganda.

I too know a guy who's been unfortunant enough to have to interrogate people, this was in Gulf war 1, in saudi arabia. they don't do anything like that. They do bloody the prisoners up and make their noses bleed, smack them around in a locked room. scare them with knives or do shallow cutting but not like this.


Although real attrocious torture does happen by all militaries that goes un said, but this photo is not one of them. and the only was a photo could be leaked is if the guys interrogating them took digital photos and snuck them back to the states to show their friends. which is how I got to see some authentic pictures, but they weren't even discusting. just a guy who's been smacked around and is a little bloody from having his head slammed into a wall, nothing like this photo.

I am an EMT I have seen many puncture wounds where the object is still in place. The object almost always keeps you from bleeding. You don't bleed until the object is removed. This is a fact.

did not know that. thanks. I'd figure the guy would bleed or sell up from infection. but an EMT sees this sort of injury all the time. very interesting. what do you think real or photoshoped?

Where is the proof this is actually someone being held at Gitmo? An anonymous source posting on Wikileaks is all it takes for people to claim its factual proof?

The piercings look real and fresh. I dont know if other aspects of the photo are real or not but the wounds look just like when someone has a nail or a piece of a car piercing them.

Some points I think we should consider:

1) From what I've read, neither Alex Jones nor Wikileaks seem to have a reputation for either reliability or accuracy.
2) This picture could be a fake. Short of scrounging up a photo analysis expert to examine it, we don't know. If that happens in the future, we can reconsider this point.
3) Even if this picture was obtained from an American military site, that doesn't mean it's 'their' picture. It could have been sent or given to them and be a picture of nearly anyone, anywhere.
4) Even if we assume the picture is real and the person pictured was in the custody of the American military, we still have possibilities to consider:
a) the person could be an informant who was punished for being a 'traitor' and then turned over to the Americans as a warning.
b) the person could have been rescued by the Americans from the place he was being tortured.
c) the person could have done this to himself as a way of sending a "message" of I'm not going to talk.

To be fair and reasonable, I think we must consider and evaluate all of these points before we jump to the conclusion that the American military is torturing detainees in this fashion.

My .02


[edit on 23-7-2008 by Heike]

A photo of a clean cut person in decent clothes with what looks like stitches in his lips and wire inserted through his cheeks. Location unknown. Who he is unknown. The circumstance unknown. Who was involved unknown. No swelling visible. No blood visible. Healthy skin color. Appears well fed.

How does anyone make the leap from that to he was tortured by the US? A complete and utter disregard for the truth I guess. By tomorrow it will be everywhere with whatever story people make up attached to it.

I'm guessing Professor Plum in the Study with the Candlestick personally.

This guy's name is Vladimir Arutunyan. Do a search for him. You will find that the picture is real. He isn't being held nor has he ever been held by the US.Quit spreading lies and nonsense. Don't buy into everything you hear or read. There is far too much nonsense on the internet. It seems some of you want to hate the US and our President you would do anything to discredit them. I'm sure after you do research on this guy he will be a cult heor to some of you. For that you should be ashamed. By the way he mutilated his own face.

Swelling will not set in for a bit if its fresh, and he is not bleeding because the wire is working as a band-aid. I have seen people with the pole from a chain-link fence going all the way through the body and the seat of the vehicle without blood and the patient survived.

Not stating as to how this person got his injuries.

Are you sure about that because this does not quite look like the same man.



[edit on 23-7-2008 by LoneGunMan]

I wanted to add a link to another photo of him that I believe shows him after his extra harware was removed. The story is in vietnamese and the link doesn't always work. Here it is: www.tienphong.vn...

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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That saddens me, that is just disgusting, I can't believe it, and I'm sure there are worst cases. Grrr... these people don't think straight. 2 wrongs don't make a right!

As much as it wouldn't surprise me if the US did do this to one of their prisoners... the guys have a point, we have no information other than someone has metal in his face. No evidence of location, circumstance, etc.

Like I said though, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Prisoners in US camps have been known to have their feces smeared over them, stacked up naked one on top of each other, been electrocuted, been forced to arc their backs for extended periods of time while chained to the floor... tormented in rooms with angry dogs kept mere inches from their faces. ...Dragged through their own urine. ...essentially, some pretty disgusting violations of basic human rights. ... the list goes on.
... and the kicker is, the US doesn't know if they're terrorists or not. They are there so they can find out. The majority of the detainees are just innocent people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It really wouldn't surprise me at all if they were mutilating the prisoners faces as well.

And they wonder why the world opinion of the US is reaching rock bottom.

reply to post by THE-LURKER

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Lurker,

Excellent call! I think the picture in the second link you provided shows conclusively that that is indeed the man in question.

I was going to suggest that it was a picture of a "modern primitive" from the Burning Man festival or some similar gathering but then saw your post.

The thing that made it immediately obvious to me that it is NOT a picture of a prisoner of war is the maroon colored string or shoe lace. A prisoner would never have been allowed access to an item like that which could be used to commit suicide.

Great job Lurker!

-Cypher