reply to post by budski

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Invading another country does not encourage the Iraqis to go kill themselves, or foreign Muslim fighters blowing up mosques and markets amongst the Muslim population they supposedly are defending. Is it really that hard to go and kill American soldiers instead of Iraqi people? Well in a way it does since most Iraqi civilians don't have body armor and drive armored vehicles.

The English and the Allies do and the Americans seem to be killing a lot of them.

reply to post by deltaboy

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Again,
if the coalition hadn't invaded, it wouldn't be happening - is that really so hard to understand?

And please don't give me any of that guff about saddams rule - the iraqi people are suffering far more under coalition occupation than they ever did under saddam.

reply to post by LestatG

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If we are killing alot of them, we seem to be doing a bad job. I don't see any carpet bombings on towns and villages. I expect millions of Iraqis dead. Instead I see insurgents and terrorists doing a better job killing hundreds in one day by blowing up a marketplace.

reply to post by budski

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O yeah it was far better to live under Saddam than under the new govt. Depends on who you asking. Kurds are no doubt really happy, and so are the Shiites. Sunnis...well they are not, especially when most of the Baathists lost power.

Okay, calm down for a second. I have a very important question.

How do we know this photo is real?

reply to post by deltaboy

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I was actually talking about Americans killing the allies not the Iraqis,

To be fair it was a bit of an 'snap' post to make. My point is that American forces make mistakes, and are not all what you make out to be.

However, it is not my place to make a statement like that, I suppose 'mistakes' happen, just seems that you guys make a lot of them.

Peace

reply to post by Johnmike

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As I said earlier the photo is a fake.
Anyone with Photoshop could make this.

I dont know about it being fake, but I agree there is a big question on where this came from and what it really is, or is supposed to represent.

Peace

Are they now? Someone should probably tell them that because they don't seem to have seen that memo from you, a non-Iraqi, that tells them what they should think...
www.globalpolicy.org...



Here's this year's poll... which conveniently did not ask the question about prefering it now vs when Hussein was dictating there:
www.globalpolicy.org... .pdf

Notice that virtually every positive response is even more positive in the 2008 poll vs the 2007 poll. Yes, they want us to leave Iraq ASAP, but no, they apparently do not wish we'd never removed Hussein from his dictatorship.

reply to post by deltaboy

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So tell me why the US hasn't invaded Saudi if they are so much for freedom and against oppressive regimes or any number of african countries, or sri lanka, or pakistan?

Iraqi's under occupation, now have no schools system, very little power for heating or cooking, very limited water supply, a completely destroyed infrastructure and millions dead, wounded or displaced, all so shrub could get his rocks off and prove to daddy he was a man.

And the worst thing is that people still buy into this crap, and by doing so, vicariously support the killing, maiming and bombing of innocents, not to mention the price for future generations in the form of birth defects brought about by the indiscriminate use of DU.

Pathetic.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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I can show you a poll which shows that there are well over a million dead civilians in iraq.

I can show you polls that say US citizens think shrub is great.

Manipulation of the reality does nothing to help these people - but of course that doesn't matter to some people who just want to go "WOOHOO SHOT ME SOME MORE RAGHEADS" and try and justify the slaughter by coalition troops by hiding behind history.

Here's how accurate your poll is:


Yah - that sounds REAL accurate



[edit on 23/7/2008 by budski]

reply to post by budski

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Where do you get your info? No school system what are you talking about? I was there in 2003-2004 my job was security for the reconstruction of schools and hospitals in Ramadi and Fallujah. It is true that the electricity and water have a way to go but once again when we got there most people in Ramadi had power and running water for only a couple of hours a day, now it is on most of the time with limited interruptions.

budski “And the worst thing is that people still buy into this crap, and by doing so, vicariously support the killing, maiming and bombing of innocents, not to mention the price for future generations in the form of birth defects brought about by the indiscriminate use of DU”
So buy saying this do you support the insurgents that are using suicide bombs to kill 1000’s of people a week.

Gentlemen, please. Can you play ping-pong in another thread?

Not that discussion of the Iraqi education system isn't valuable, but it's getting rather off the topic of this particular photo, isn't it?

reply to post by budski

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OK, so you're saying that the global policy organization of the UN can't be believed... this new trend of purely discrediting the source of anything that disagrees with the argument you build, rather than either providing some support for your initial statement or even considering that you could be wrong is... extremely hilariously pathetically amusing. (By "you" I'm not singling you out, Bud, believe me, you're not the Lone Ranger when it comes to denial and dismissal of information sources around here.)

I also am infinitely amused at using the sampling size to discredit the poll when you and I both know if a poll surveying 1,000 Iraqis indicated the Iraqi people considered GWB a terrorist, you'd be shouting it and citing it from the rafters. Now that we've demonstrated that hypocrisy is alive and well (in all of us) can you please provide a poll that shows more Iraqis are unhappier today vs 6 years ago?

If this photo is photo shopped, it’s certainly well done and is in no way obvious. IMO, this photo, real or not, was released for the same reasons that the Abu Ghraib photos were made public. Intimidation. That’s always been the real purpose for torture, to terrorize the general population into not resisting the tyrant. The reference to Hollywood gore porn made earlier is particularly apt I think. As part of the MSM, Hollywood always plays a role in the manipulation of the public psyche. Be afraid and obey folks, you don’t want to end up that that guy now do you?

reply to post by ice1300

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Try doing some research - I've done mine, and I'm not gonna do yours as well.

Once AGAIN for the hard of hearing - none of this would be happening if shrub had not launched an illegal war of aggression against another sovereign nation.

Any bombings are completely the fault of the occupation - congratulations, you've turned iraq into a terrorist factory, just so shrub and his mates could get a little bit richer.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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The point is this:
Pollster going to selected sources in Iraq asking questions with his armed guards standing behind him.

Iraqi civilian (clearly worried he'll be shot) says "of course things are better under the americans"

Seriously though, I think we both know just how useless these polls are, especially in a country which still has no-go area's even for armed troops, and most especially having been done by the stooges of the UN.

Want me to dig out the poll by the Lancet that says well over a million iraqi civilians have been killed by coalition forces?

That was done in exactly the same manner with a larger number of people taking part.


[edit on 23/7/2008 by budski]

reply to post by deltaboy

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I need only say falluja,your lot bombed the hell out of them for fun.Dont tell me you did it for those blackwater pond life killed in their pickup and strung by the bridge.
I dont think the regular army out there likes those dogs of war with no rules of engagment who make their tours harder any more than the locals used for target practice giggles

As for this photo,cant tell if its legit or not to be honest.that prisoner may well have been tortured by the Iraqi army and the photo taken by a an amercian to be used as evidence against them.I think most of us here have heard the Iraqis use extreme measures to get infomation out of these captured people,sure the Americans have got some harsh tactics on getting info out of them but I'm not sure if this comes from their manual
If another photo comes up with drill marks on his feet then I would guess he has been treated by his country men!
If another shot comes to light showing his wedding tackle exposed and a grinning trailer trash pig girl grinning while pointing at the old boy then we will know who did it!

I don't buy it for a minute. In fact, a lot of people pay good money to have this done to them! Check the following links.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...



GRAPHIC

www.youtube.com...