America's Middle Class Can't Take Much More Punishment

reply to post by desert

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I think we were set-up, so-to-speak, but that's another story and spilled milk, BUT...

The question is: How fast do we adapt? What's the goal? Our program obviously needs overhauled.
For some reason former Communist countries still want to fight. But this time, they know how we beat them.

It's a hard pill to swallow getting beat at your own game, now... Where's that legendary American, ingenuity, stalwart patriotism, spirit stuff?
Can we overhaul the system without clawing each other's eyes out? Without being wholly subject?

Can we even all get behind the American Ideal, now, in its pure form?

Equality, autonomy, free markets, fair-cut, stand up, two-fisted, get-the-girl (or boy), color blind, inclusive, infectious, and groovy.

I'm not being poetic, really. CAN WE DO IT? Pull it out the fire.

reply to post by desert

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Desert,

That article you linked was the lecture in a nutshell, what's missing is the explanation of how the research was done, all of her data came from a govt. agency that tracks how much people spend on what...it has been keeping records for - I think- since the 1890's, but would have to verify.

Anyone who would rather read text than listen to the lecture ought to check out the link in your post above.

What was the hippie idea of people all living together in a commune?
Its said that more and more people are staying single these days. Dating is harder, and its just cheaper or more practical to live with family or friends if your fortunate enough.
So you could say its those people that are blind and ignorant to the facts. and had to go out and support that new development by buying a new house.
Its those people that feel the need to build a family, that need independence to fill some type of void. In doing so they themselves could have caused these higher prices.

I dont mind paying for whatever because I dont have any needless bills or expenses. All my money goes into my bank account. these other people that need to spend...WILL spend because they have no choice.

Young people, get a local job no matter what it pays and stay close with your family and friends. The glamour of hollywood isnt within your means.

reply to post by Mailman

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I don't follow your reply.
Build a family to fill a void with independence?

Are you saying people just doing what people normally do are to blame, and that it's silly to blame them?
OR?

It sounds like your views on the value of social connectivity are contradictory. Or am I confused?

I had to retype what i wanted to say here a few times. but you could say yes, people doing...what people normally do are to blame. Couldnt you agree?
The population is bursting at its seams, we are starting to see global natural implications of this. and yet people still go on trying to live like their movie stars.

you also missed a few key words in your qoute.

Just what this thread is implying middle americans taking punishemnt. My response is to those that are blindly supporting a sytem, that doesnt seem to be supporting them. But they dont even know it. they are too busy with other things. they will just pay it.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by Mailman]

Thank you for the clarification and I have no objections to your observation. Truly, we're alive just like other alive things. Consequently, we do do things that living things do. consume, produce waste, etc. compete.
Ah. Competition. Now, is Competition an unavoidable intrinsic life function?
I think this very question is, in broad terms ,a very real area of research/inquiry.

Well, you seem to have answers at least in part. So what is the carrying capacity of earth for us? I've heard figures ranging from 100 million up to 12 billion. Comfort is another question, albeit an important one for Americans with our disproportionate sense of entitlement.

Too many people? Well, if we could really quantify sufferring, I'd say it is, among other negatives, at an alltime high. Course, there's just more folks around to be sufferring than before.

Population reduction may be an fact. And I have a hard time imagining serene, painless, universally amicable population reductions.
Not that it couldn't be done, I have a hard time imagining it. Sense of entitlement and consistently reactionary. So medieval, really. gjbmbchc

[edit on 25-7-2008 by djerwulfe]

This is a subject that's very important to me, as in the last 4 years I've gone from living comfortably to barely scraping by on a month to month basis. I am a small business owner on the front lines of the "War on the Middle Class."

It all started several years ago when my health insurance premiums went from an affordable $100/ month to an UNGODLY $1500/month. Naturally, I canceled my health insurance and shopped around for cheaper coverage. All I could find was coverage for major medical ONLY for $250/month. I did without doctor visits, dentists, and perscriptions for several years (no big deal).

Then, my business liability insurance went from $75 dollars a month to $150/month. No big deal, part of doing business. I just raised my prices to pay for it.

Next step downward, my property insurance was dropped due to a possibility that I may be hit by a hurricane at some point in the future. The only insurance I could find was twice as much as I was paying. "Okay," I thought,"I'll just have to grin and bear it."

Next, I had a minor heart attack (due to stress), and had to start taking heart pills (and I'm only 38). I no longer have perscription coverage, so I started paying $55/ month for pills. 6 months later, one of my pills went to $150/month.

Further in the downward spiral, the housing market crash hit. My business went down over 50%. People had always paid me in the past by taking money out of their equity. Now that equity is gone (unless you have owned your home for a long time). I went from making~$1500 a week to
$500 a week if I'm lucky.

"What's next," I wondered. My answer, energy prices. My average gas bill for my commercial mini-van in the last 3 years went from $20/week to $50/week (more If I'm working in another county, which I have to now to keep working).

I have gone from upper middle to lower cass in a matter of 4 years. I lost my house, and now live in an apartment. In order to pay the bills, my girlfriend and her daughter moved in (which is has worked out well ).

Now I am in my second year of college, some of which is paid for by our tax dollars. The rest of it, I got a student loan for. I have decided it's going to be better in the long run to work for someone else as a software engineer than to struggle with my business. I'll keep it up until I graduate, but my American Dream is dead, killed by big business and our politicians who only care about their special intrests (insurance companies, oil companies, wall street tycoons, etc...).

If there had been some kind of ACTUALL REGULATION on insurance companies, etc... this never would have happened. Business would have declined after the housing market crash, but it wouldn't have been as bad if people's insurance here in Florida hadn't doubled (or in some cases quadrupled) in the last 5 years.

I don't expect handouts from the government, but I DO expect them to do their job, and reign in big corporations when they RAPE the middle class.

reply to post by pjsconcrete

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PJ...
I wish I could help you.....but I'm in the same boat.
I hope things get better for you real soon.

Grafilthy

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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draconian laws work by a caste system...you have the rulers..the priests..then the workers

they the NWO want to dominate peoples and resources and enforce draconian law around the planet..

also by demoting the middle class and removing jobs they can force people to join the military to help continue domination..




to save the human race we need to have NESARA or something like it
www.nesara.us...
www.white-knights911.net...
www.luisprada.com...


take care

All I know is the only way I've been able to make ends meet in the last couple years was when I was in the Army. Had great health care for the family, nice paychecks. Look at the average federal worker and compare their pay and benefits to someone on the outside who does a similar job.

The system is squeezing people who are not a part of it. It's feudal in a sense, federal, state, and local levels pushing down regulations and taking money by force from the masses.

reply to post by smokingmonkey

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Yea and they make for an effective lobby.

Nothing like an interest group whose interest are to extract more money and gain more power over the regular population. On top of that, they really don't do much in the first place ex: American public education.

Well... It is because they have been organizing this for a long time.

Via The Club of Rome:

en.wikipedia.org...

You will see Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands is a member of
the Club of Rome, and the Bliderberg Group.

en.wikipedia.org...

US government officials who attend these meetings without
permission are actually breaking the law called the Logan Act,
but they don't really seem to care.

Ppl wonder why they cooperate, its because they are well paid
to do so, and the kind of money and power they have they
get a lot of cooperation.

They also seem to have some attraction to mock human sacrifice.

en.wikipedia.org...

My feeling is they are looking forward to the days when they
don't have to fake the human sacrifice anymore.

In fact, they seek realism so much they playing a recording
or a human scream in anguish at the ceremony.

So I'd say they have some common ground with each other,
and thus their mutual cooperation.

Some of them paid $50,000 cash 28 years ago to have carved
in stone their ultimate goals.

en.wikipedia.org...

6.1 billion dead is the part I take real issue with.

I'd say anyone willing to drop that kind of cash 28 years ago
felt pretty strongly about their points, and I am guessing they
prolly had a fair amount of money left over after saying it.

The only countries I see standing up to them is Iran and Russia
at this point, it looks like China is well bought off.

This can all change, but I see the war coming soon with Iran,
and possibly with Russia.

Russia's first strike weapons will be the KH-102 Stealth Nuclear
Cruise Missile fired from Bombers, Ships, Subs, and possibly
ground installations it is around 200 Kilo-tons.

www.globalsecurity.org...

Iran's biggest threat is regional, and will most likely be chemical
weapons is my guess as it does not want to biological weapons
to affect its own population.

The warning I have heard is to watch for a few middle east leaders
to die in rapid succession in les than a week, when you see that begin
head away from the cities with your bug out bags and get in a cave
if you can.

I wish you all the best of Luck !

Well these government reports leave out the layers of tax on
everything.

What I mean by that is, the taxes at all layers from raw goods
to finished purchased product.

I do not pretend to know them all, but they have a list of most of
them here.

www.thepowerhour.com...

But every item you buy as a finished good is taxed MANY times
before it makes its way to you, this runs up the cost of labor
and production as well, and those also increase the finished price.

That is why a loaf of bread used to cost 10 cents in my lifetime.

I remember when gas was under 50 cents a gallon, and my hair is
mostly not grey.

I remember my aunt buying a 3 bedroom brick home, with a
double car garage in the late 70's for $35,000.

The country has lost its course, and the ppl driving the ship are
drunk and blind, or just thieves that lie semi-well.

As a former member of the military I sincerely feel sorry for how
bad some ppl have it, but after I got out it was very hard to find
a decent job and they were given to friends,family, etc etc.

Nepotism basically.

It is not for lack of training, I learned advanced electronics
and radar systems, but most of our electronics has been shipped
overseas and unless you have a degree AND know someone
they are gonna hire the Visa workers or ship the job overseas.

The DOT COM boom made things pretty nice for awhile, lots of work
for techies for a few years, then the DOT COM crash came,
and I was still able to find work for awhile.

After 911 I did find some contract work for the military, now
all I can find is short term gigs that are 1099 where they don't
cover the SSI or anything, its all on you, and the pay is low
with that figured in.

I have some money saved up thanks to being cautious, and
my house and vehicles are paid off, both very used and abused, lol.

I am not about to go out and put my rear on the line to try and
boot the bandits out of DC for more of the same treatment I have
received.

I am afraid I have done my service to this country, and the ppl
that sat on their rear at home watching sports and NASCAR being
armchair quarterbacks can go show me their skills.

I have packed and prepared to head away from the cities when
WW3 breaks out and the Russians cut loose with the Stealth
Nuclear Cruise Missile with a 5,000km range.

The way things are it won't be real long now...

Top Brass Defends Russia's Right to Preemptive Strike:

www.mnweekly.ru...

Iran says it intercepted terrorist attack on Russian consulate:

en.rian.ru...

Russia takes measures to protect its facilities and citizens in Iran:

en.rian.ru...

Putin Calls U.S. `Frightening Monster,' Urges French Solidarity:

www.bloomberg.com...

Some photos and more info on the baseline for the new model:

en.wikipedia.org...

The KH-102 Stealth Nuclear Cruise Missile:

www.globalsecurity.org...

This is a radar invisible 200 Kilo-ton nuclear missile, that flies low and
hugs the terrain, its TERCOM system is a hyper accurate terrain
navigation system.

My caches are buried near caves in the part of my state that will
receive the lowest amount of fallout based on the strike maps.

I suggest other ppl prepare as well, we are in for a bumpy ride.

I was really worried when someone hired a 3rd world hit man
to try to kill Putin, I thought it was going to come pretty quick
after that.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

So the temperature is rising in more ways than most ppl know.

Plan accordingly.

www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...

Good post! Wow, when I reread this, djerwulfe, I found it quite meaty. I will respond to each paragraph. Try to keep it brief.

We have to remember that WW2 CREATED JOBS for Americans IN America (many of them women btw), giving a huge boost to, for example, aircraft industry, and helped start US aerospace industry. This is not what is happening today...except if you're in Blackwater etal but the jobs are in Iraq. And what the hell jobs are going to spin off from Blackwater?? Will we become a NATION of mercenaries?

I was just in a CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) project built during the Depression. Still standing and still in use, in America. Google it for more info, but it was "a work relief program for young men from unemployed families". If business couldn't provide jobs, these "socialist" programs helped save us.

Yes. Times get tough and we change lifestyles, that's the tangibles, but Americans also need intangibles like "hope".

Yes, huge corporations live in their own orbit. NOT ALL corporations are bad. What has happened has been the dehitching of corporations from corporate responsibility and ethics. Corporate oversight and accountability have been lessened to de facto nothing. Personal take on the phrase "No rules" is of a different mode than corporations having no rules. Corporate heads make great profits, we suffer great grief.

I would have thought that the spectre of communism was dead, having had to have been replaced (for the military industrial complex to take advantage of) by another spectre (terrorism?). We seem to need to have someone to fear, as fear is a great promoter of sales.


OK, now for my new thoughts...

Citizens NEED to write their elected officials, tell them you're mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. Keep it brief ("I'm middle class and don't have/falling behind on money for basic needs", "Americans need renewable energy NOW", "We can't drill our way out", etc.)--and, look, even a telephone and car/transportation are considered "basic" needs nowadays

Look, when Washington got a relatively few emails about Janet Jackson's breast (at a time when our soldiers were coming home with missing limbs!) they ACTED. Email, email, email. First be a voter, but email anyway.

Hell, email corporations, too! Castigate the bad ones, praise the good ones.

Enough of Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid.

Lastly, a global economy is a given, but it doesn't have to mean the American worker has to lose out. We can use American ingenuity for a new and different economy, one working on new energy technology and infrastructure to make the world leap ahead in the area of energy and not hog it for ourselves.
Tell Washington, tell corporations what you want. Don't let them tell you what you get. The middle class needs help and guidance to survive, for if it doesn't survive, neither will America.

No, this whole premis is nothing but bull s**t.

The government was ELECTED by the people of this country. The "middle class" is NOT heavily taxed at all, in fact compared to most of the world, their taxes are laughably low.

China and the other oil producing countries are NOT financing America's wars, in fact, they are siphoning money out of the USA at a horrible rate.

And the real facts are that if the Democrats and the rapid environmentalists had not forced this country to stop drilling for oil, had not stopped the building of any refineries in this country for 30 years; had not stopped the building of nuclear power plants (and made them so prohibitively expensive to build) we would be energy free of those countries now.

And, if a bunch of Muslim fanatics had not decided to destroy two of the largest buildings in the world, and had not killed over 3,000 American citizens in that act, we would not be at war with any Muslim anywhere.

Keep in mind, that those idiots actually believed that by doing this, they would make the American people so afraid that they would immediately accept the Muslim religion and become one of them.

And only pusillanimous cowards write the kind of drivel that this thread is all about.

No, this whole premis is nothing but bull s**t.

The government was ELECTED by the people of this country. The "middle class" is NOT heavily taxed at all, in fact compared to most of the world, their taxes are laughably low.

China and the other oil producing countries are NOT financing America's wars, in fact, they are siphoning money out of the USA at a horrible rate.

And the real facts are that if the Democrats and the rabid environmentalists had not forced this country to stop drilling for oil, had not stopped the building of any refineries in this country for 30 years; had not stopped the building of nuclear power plants (and made them so prohibitively expensive to build) we would be energy free of those countries now.

And, if a bunch of Muslim fanatics had not decided to destroy two of the largest buildings in the world, and had not killed over 3,000 American citizens in that act, we would not be at war with any Muslim anywhere.

Keep in mind, that those idiots actually believed that by doing this, they would make the American people so afraid that they would immediately accept the Muslim religion and become one of them.

And only pusillanimous cowards write the kind of drivel that this thread is all about.

reply to post by Blaine91555

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Excuse me, please, Blaine, you claim to be middle class. Let us go back 20 years ago. Would you have considered what you have now as just middle class or perhaps back then the wages you currently earn and the material items you posses would be considered well-to-do. The middle class IS the working class.

I am a remnant of the real and true middle class. My current wages are comparable to that of my father's 20 years ago. He had a very nice home, new cars, and enough money in the bank to cover just about any kind of emergency. $35,000/yr, 20 years ago was middle class and I as a young woman just starting out made $3.35/hr working in a factory. Now I make that same kind of money that my father once had doing a skilled job that I had to attend tech school to get, yet I cannot make ends meet. He paid $8 a week for family health insurance back when a doctors visit was $20. Full coverage car insurance was $250 a year with a 16 year old driver in the home. A gallon of milk was less than $1 and a gallon of gas was a mere $0.65.

I quadrupled my wages through hard work, becoming a skilled worker and the government took that away from me. In order to pay the newly hired workers triple what I started out with, the company had to lower my income potential. Instead of the $0.50 raises each year for an outstanding job performance, I get a 2% cost of living increase because I am at the maximum "allowable" pay scale. When I first began my career, the cap on wages did not exist. Add to the maximum wage cap, I now have to do the work of what used to be three jobs held by three different people.

Then to make things even better, my very first power bill for an apartment with lights and television on 24/7 was a mere $16. Today, my power bill (with conservative use) is a whopping $89. What used to be $10 a week in gas for me to commute to work now costs $114. The beautiful, home near by sold 20 years ago for $30,000 just went back on the market for $242,000 just a few months ago and there really has not been any major changes to the home other than a paint job and new roof.

There was a time when a young single person could live on minimum wage. I did when I first started out. Unfortunately, for my two children, the option is not there and they are forced to still live at home. Years ago, rent was only a quarter of your paycheck. Today it is half! Yes, the minimum wage workers are suffering, but so is the middle class. 20 years ago, a degree offered a young person a career and pushed him/her into the affluent professional class. Today, a young person needs a degree for a lousy, entry-level working class position.

There is no working class like it used to be. The government has broken the backs of these poor souls year after year, taking more and more from the middle to serve the needs of the rich and the poor.

You consider yourself middle class? Would that be a professional by any chance?