Who made eating pork and swine flesh lawful for Christians?, page 14

posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 04:43 PM

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Originally posted by queenofangels_17
Wrong. That was God's words which Jesus taught to his disciples.

Oh yeeah

The Mark quote is clear example of how they edited the words of Jesus to fit the pagan followers. I gave you the unabridged version but you prefer the lie to ease your conscience.

Frecked. Get away, you are up to no good. I present a verse, unlike you, and you say the bible was invented to obscure your vision of truth? Sorry. You "quote" from your own mind. Your quote isn't found in the bible unless your uncle is Satan. And I feel I know my devils enough to have 'em grunge about you trying to make things more difficult than they already are. I change you change? and it all ends up in perfection at last.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
And appart from other places in theGospel and in Acts when Peter has a vision at Jaffa where he is told to eat whatever his heart fancies, the answer to this you find in Genesis 1:11. How can something God says is very good be unclean? Give me one good reason other than the smell and the danger of swallowing spikes that for example shrimps should be concidered unclean?

This vision refers to people not food. Recall how Peter said he never ate unclean food? So the disciples have knowledge of clean and unclean foods. Now, if after the vision somebody came knocking on the door bearing bacon and pork chops... I would concede that the vision refers to food.

As for your question of shrimps... if God made it unlawful to eat, man does not have to find the reason why. He knows His creation better than anybody, He knows best what is good and bad for them.

No peace!

Your problem is that you don't think for yourself. Your average burger is about 30 % swine. Bowine pig pork. Your problem is that you think you have a problem when or if you have eaten pork. The thing is the only reason God gave these rules to the old people -- They didnt have freezers. Its OK to smash the skulls of children and kill the fetus inside a still living pregnant woman with a reguar knife and noone lives except you? Well, your God orders it. Infact he is my main god too, but I'd go for Ba'al when it comes to being friendly in war. At least they didnt kill women old people or children.

Anonymous ATS

posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 01:30 AM

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Anonymous ATS

posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 02:18 AM

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orangetom1999

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:51 AM

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reply to post by 4x4fun

4x4fun,

You have some serious problems with your post on page 13 of this thread.
I do not believe most Believers know the difference or know what is wrong with your post ..simply by the lack of responses to what you have posted.

1)Christianity contradicts the Jewish Holy Scriptures.

When I see this my alarm bells and radar automatically go up several notches. One must be very careful here because what many Jews think is holy is Talmud..not Torah. Most Christians do not even know of the existence of the Talmud ...much less know much about the Torah...throw in the Tanakh and they are confused. Also most Christians do not know that there are Jews called Karaites who do not follow the Talmud.
There is very much ignorance among Believers about the Jews and even about Christianity. Sad but true. It is very easy to default through with many of them...unchallanged....unquestioned.

The conduct of the Jews/Hebrews in the Olde Testament times is clearly that they were themselves often disobedient to the Torah they claimed to be keeping ..sometimes in all parts..when the record shows differently. They were warned over and over about their disobedience..even sent prophets to warn them..and the Hebrew leadership killed God's prophets sent to warn them. This is a contradiction.

Many of the Christian Church's today are following exactly this same pattern as did the Hebrews.

2)Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority a majority of the worlds Jews

A good percentage of the worlds Jews do not live in the nation today called Israel..they live here in the United States. Big problem here. Also ..a good percentage of the Jews living in what today is called Israel are not believers in the Torah as in the Law of Moses...they are secular..even atheists. The are devout believers in Israel..but not in a religious sense as in the Olde Testament times. This is knowledge carefully kept from the bulk of peoples ..especially here in America.

3) The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain in effect forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. Deut.13 1-4

The Hebrews/Jews ..particularly the Jewish leadership had already done this over and over by the time of Jesus walk on this earth. He rebuked them for this ..as did the prophets before him for being disobedient to the Torah. We have a clear example of this in the woman brought before the Pharisees ..caught in adultery ..in the very act. The Law of Moses stated that they "both " shall be stoned. The Pharisees brought only the woman caught in the very act of adultery. This indicates that the Pharisees were disobedient to the Law of Moses which they boasted of keeping in all parts. You cannot catch a woman in adultery in the very act..without also catching the man. This is a textbook example to illustrate that the Hebrew leadership were disobedient to the Law of Moses given on Mt Sinai by God.
The Hebrew leadership by this example showed that they were following another god and another olde testament..not of the Law of Moses..and that they had done this privily while attempting to pass this new template off as the Law of Moses when it was no such thing.

There are numerous examples of this changing of the Law of Moses for the "traditions of men." in the Olde Testament.

4)Of the New Testament in John 9:14-16 it is recorded that Jesus himself was in violation of the Sabbath and it's commandments and he got busted for it publicly.

Jesus Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. He is the Sabbath. The Word itself means Rest, Peace, Life..among many other names. The New Testament Sabbath is a person..not a day. We Rest in Him every day. Sabbath=Peace, Rest etc etc. That is what the very word Sabbath means. We do not observe days times months and years...as is the tradition of men.

[ii]5)Jesus was not a decendant of King David.

There are three lineages of Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

From Matthew..the lineage of Jesus Christ is recorded as Christ the King.
The Royal line from Abraham..in accordance to the promise made to Abraham.

Mark records Jesus Christ the servant..no lineage in this book as the lineage of servants are not recorded by custom.

Luke...in the 3rd chapter we see the lineage of Jesus Christ as a man with a lineage going back to Adam. Interestingly enough we see this lineage recorded backwards as compared to the lineage recorded in Matthew.

In the book of John we see the Lineage of Jesus Christ the High Priest...when he takes on his ministry after being baptized by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. This is where his Church and ministry begins..his Priesthood...when he was about 30 years olde as is required under the Olde Testament Law.

IN both his Humanity and his Kingship..Jesus Christ is of the line of David.

6)The word for "young lady" in the Jewish Scripture was mistranslated as "Virgin" in the New Testament.

This is a very moot point and one so often made by our intelligences today in discrediting the Bible Texts..it is also so predictable.

The point made here is moot in lieu of the statement by Mary herself in speaking to the angel...stating .."how can this be seeing I know no man."
This statement is usually ignored in favor of focusing on the translation..of virgin or young woman. It is a slight of hand. Mary stated herself ..she knew no man. It is very difficult to mistranslate or misunderstand when a woman states she knows not a man...in any language.

7)In Numbers 23:19 The Torah says: "God is not a mortal".

Correct..and it is obvious that Jesus Christ was no ordinary man. Otherwise how could he have silenced the Pharisees so easily...the other Hebrew leadership as well..for they were very learned people.
We are also told that the Word took on flesh and we beheld His Glory. It is obvious by the text ...that this is no ordinary man. He took on flesh for His purposes..not our purposes.

9)He will unite Israel and the whole world

He will not unite Israel...nor the world. The New Testament Israel is His Church ..of every kindred and tongue on the face of the earth.
This world hates Jesus Christ and always has hated him..nothing new under the sun here. Just as they Hated the god of the Olde Testament.
The World has always contemplated replacing God's way with the way of the god of this world. With the traditions of men. Nothing new here. It is still going on today.

10)He did not build the 3rd temple to the specifications specified Ezekiel 37:26-28

This is true and very obvious when one considers that those who knew of the prior temple..before the captivity in Babylon and lived to see the new temple built after the return from this captivity...they wept while most cheered. For they knew that the Lord did not come down to the temple in His Cloud of Glory. Thus meaning the temple was not the same as the older temple. Something very important was missing from the new temple.
The olde timers knew this clearly..the younger ones did not.

11)"God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

He is reigning now...and is King over all the world. God is one right now. His Glory will He not share. Also..he came not for the world but for His people. Of what use is the world to Him...when His temple is the Temple built without hands?? The Temple built without hands is very telling to those who know of what it means and bodes.

But the sad truth 4x4fun is that even many who claim His name do not know most of this and have themselves been switched to the traditions of men as did the Pharisees of olde. There are many Pharisees still amongst us...teaching and preaching the same slight of hand.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 13-10-2008 by orangetom1999]

JaxonRoberts

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 01:01 AM
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OK, first I have to admit that I did not read the entire thread as it would make my eyes bleed, so I'm just going to tackle the OP. The reason that the pig was off the diet in ancient times and therefore put in ancient religious texts is because the pig, when not cooked completely, used to carry the threat of trichinosis which is a parasitic disease, and if it is untreated may cause death. In order to keep this from happening, it was included in religious texts of the time. Since there has not been a case of trichinosis in decades, and we have treatments for it, it is now a useless 'rule'. In other words, mmmmmmmmmm, bacon!

Neo Christian Mystic

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by queenofangels_17

Who made eating pork and swine flesh lawful for Christians?

If you are a Jew who denies the son ov good, you don't believe in God at all, for is not the son God in person? Well, he didn't die for my sins, and Longinus was executed for saving Jesus' life using Cain's spearhead, the same spearhead can used on Abel who was killed for his obvious sins, and he did not walk on water, he lied about the wealthy and many other sins, but through his sacrifice he managed to develop new languages and kept hi sword. Read between the lines and you will kno the whole Truth. Jesus didnot die for anyone's sins, we are all casting our own destinies. Jesus swore to Hashatan and God oaths and laws to set us free. And he paid with his own blood, sweat and tears. Bus isn't he As-King Fu-King anything good in return? Love your enemies, don't steal a dime from anyone and be honest. Love your neighbour with the same løve he showed Magdala's Queen. Thanks to him we could turn Des-Words into tools, so noone could ever overcome us. Just think about it, or get ready to face the irony of destiny. Good luck. *nuss*

[edit on 13/10/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]

TEAMSTER

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
OK, first I have to admit that I did not read the entire thread as it would make my eyes bleed, so I'm just going to tackle the OP. The reason that the pig was off the diet in ancient times and therefore put in ancient religious texts is because the pig, when not cooked completely, used to carry the threat of trichinosis which is a parasitic disease, and if it is untreated may cause death. In order to keep this from happening, it was included in religious texts of the time. Since there has not been a case of trichinosis in decades, and we have treatments for it, it is now a useless 'rule'. In other words, mmmmmmmmmm, bacon!

If you also look at the rest of the dietary laws for the Jews and Muslims you will see that the rest of the taboo foods can also cause severe illness or death if not properly cooked. Milk dishes must be cooked at a lower tempature than beef. The lower tempature of the milk portion will not kill off any nasties that the beef portion might have. Shell fish are off limits becouse they are filter feeders or carrion eaters. Birds of prey are the same way. Back in biblical times there really wasn't a worry about semolina becouse ALL chicken were free range back then.
When the Black Death was wiping out most of Europe there was one group that wasn't affected that much by it. The medieval Jews by keeping their strict dietary laws did not suffer as much as their christian counterparts. Ask anybody who is invoulved in any food service what it is like when the rabbi comes by for his inspection. The FDA has nothing on these guys. You can eat off the floor of a kosher bakery or deli. That is how clean these places must be kept.
As for the original question, it is easier to convert someone if you let them continue their way of life then to try and turn their world upside down. If they want to eat pork and clams, then let them. It is more important that they beleive in Jesus than what they eat.

Neo Christian Mystic

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

...but I'd go for Ba'al when it comes to being friendly in war. At least they didnt kill women old people or children.

Does anyone honestly believe that I wrote this? Just a question. Appart for the Ba'al mention, I mostly agree to "my" "own" "words" here. I have no intention to find whoever wrote this using my account. If it was up to mye Ba'al can go and foook hi-s elv. Good try Hashatan hub hub
. God is One, and the Dragon is gone from the heavens. Atleast that's what it seems. Whird støff.

queenofangels_17

posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

Neo Christian,

I told you the TRUTH.

You can convince yourself that pork is lawful, but that will not make it so.

Your heart is full of disease because of your clear disobedience to God's words.

God's words are the Truth because God is truth. Swine are unlawful because they are unclean, would you like to eat your brother's meat? God has made known that he transformed idolaters and mockers into swines, and He forbade the eating and even the touching of it to believers.

But seeing that you are not one of them, this Law does not apply to you.

Go and eat your bacon and increase the disease in your heart.

R-evolve

posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 06:45 AM
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If god didnt want us to eat pigs he shouldnt of made them out of bacon
, seriously each to their own some cultures eat dogs and many of us find that abhorrent but thats just the way of the world. Personally i could eat bacon and gammon till the cows came home and then id have some beef.

queenofangels_17

posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 07:30 AM
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As for the original question, it is easier to convert someone if you let them continue their way of life then to try and turn their world upside down. If they want to eat pork and clams, then let them. It is more important that they beleive in Jesus than what they eat.

I believe that was the reason why Paul made eating of swine lawful, but they are just deceiving themselves into thinking that it is lawful. Jesus never made it lawful, by his own admission he did not come to break the law but to observe them. These are innovations made by Paul to gain more followers and to conform to the Pagans who are swine eaters and who are uncircumcised.

I tell you the truth, on the Day of Judgment Jesus and his disciples will be a witness against the Children of Israel who corrupted his Gospel, made him who was a mortal man as God or son of God, the ultimate idolatry an unforgivable sin in the sight of God. God will forgive all sins except this.

I am not looking to convert anyone in this thread, no man can convert a man unless it is God's will that his heart be converted. He whom God has sent astray can never be guided by any man, and him whom God has guided no man can send astray.

5:15 O people of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Now hath come unto you light from Allah and a plain Scripture.

5:19 O people of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you to make things plain after an interval (of cessation) of the messengers, lest ye should say: There came not unto us a messenger of cheer nor any warner. Now hath a messenger of cheer and a warner come unto you. Allah is Able to do all things.

The messenger's duty is only to deliver the message clearly. They are not sent as compellers or warden over you.

112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One!

112:2 Allah, the eternally Besought of all!

112:3 He begetteth not nor was He begotten.

112:4 And there is none comparable unto Him.

Neo Christian Mystic

posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

Neo Christian,

I told you the TRUTH.

Uhuh)+( - And so did I. Ever tried guessing? Or daaring?

And I won't take any orders from nobody, other than if it were just and good. Don't you find it a bit foolish to first be against food and then order me to go eat? Somehow this post of your reminds me of the place in the bible where God foretells the brutal massacre where Israel would kill everyone, children, women and old people alltogether. There is no use in pretending to be wise when folly follows idiocy. Good luck...

[edit on 15/10/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Anonymous ATS

posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by Being_From_Earth

trichinosis,pork is notorious for this....makeing it unclean.

Anonymous ATS

posted on Jan, 1 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17

Just a note to remind you to look into the proper context of your quoted verse... The question was NOT about the eating of vile and filthy swine; the question asked by the Pharisees was entirely about WASHING HANDS before eating.

JoeMcDaniel
boldnessinchrist.com

orangetom1999

posted on Jan, 2 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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There is in existence ..a New Testament and an Old Testament.
A testament is a promise..a Covenant. A Last Will and Testament.

A Testament is of none effect unless the testator dies. The death of the testator is the event which puts the promise, the covenant, the will and testament in effect.

It is obvious that no one died for the Old Testament.

Furthermore ...a testament can be changed as often as the testator liveth.

The testament which is of effect is the Last Will and Testament written by the Testator when the testator dies or passes on...gives up the ghost.

So many peoples seem to forget this about a Testament, Covenant, a Last Will and Testament.

Furthermore ..all of the original Apostles were Apostles to the Hebrews. It was Paul who was the Apostle to the Gentiles. The New Testament/Covenant was to go to the Hebrews first ...then the others.
This is why so many claim so much of the Olde Testament connections about the Apostles. It looks to be such but it is not so.

Paul in his Epistles goes to great lengths to explain the relationship of the OLd Testament to the New Testament. We also see Paul in speaking to Hebrews in the Book of Hebrews using more of the Old Testament in explanation as he is speaking to Hebrews who would, by nature, know and understand more Old Testament than would Gentiles.

Notice something of great importants about the Apostle Paul. He is well versed in the Olde Testament..cover to cover. Of all the Apostles ..Paul is amongst the most learned..particularly in the Olde Testament. Having been converted on Damascus Road...Paul is the one to clearly see the difference in the Olde Testament and the New Testament and what it bodes for believers. Paul goes to great lengths to illustrate and teach this difference in his epistles ..particulary in the 4th Chapter of Galatians in the part about the Two Covenants and Abrahams two sons. "For these are the two covenants" as Paul says.

Many peoples seem wont to forget this about the nature of a covenant, a promise, a will and testament.

They also seem wont to overlook this also about the Apostle Paul in an attempt to put us all back under the Old Testament Bondage.
Particularly under Old Testament Bondage is the practice of dietary laws although this not the only form of bondage they tend to promote.

The dietary laws are no longer of effect to God's Believers. Eat all the pork you want or dont eat pork. Your Salvation is not based on the dietary laws..it is based on Blood..the sheding of His Blood. On us being covered by His Blood when we appear before God. Does God see His Blood on us to cover our sins..not dietery laws.

We are still a peculear people but the Olde Testament bondage/Levitical law does not apply to us. Our priesthood is not of Levi..but of Melchizedek.
This should be obvious to those who understand the Word. Paul once again goes to great lengths to explain this too as this priesthood of Jesus the Christ for Remission of sins is our High Priest and not of Levi but of the everlasting priesthood of Melchizedek. Out of Judah and not Levi.

This is why we are taugth to beware of the Pharisees...for they would have us back under the Olde Testament bondage. Pharisees "travel" under many many guises. It is up to us to know the difference..to be educated in the Word and Holy Spirit...to be a workman worthy. To not fall under the leven of the Pharisees...to bondage. Beware!!

The fingerprint so common to most of those who want to bring people back to the Olde Testament Bondage...is a dislike and distrust of Paul"s writings...his epistles. You can eventually see this one coming as you become more versed in God's Word.? Beware the leven of the Pharisees.

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom

[edit on 2-1-2009 by orangetom1999]

TheFretwalker

posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by 4x4fun
Well, I imagine that if Jesus was Righteous in the Lords eyes, he will come again, only he will be risen from the dead as all the righteous in Jerusalem will be on that day. But it won't be to "save" you, it will be to tell you that you shouldn't eat bacon and point you in the direction of the Temple.

Haha! This is awsome!
Best thing I've read here so far.
I saw your 2009 'The Year of the Draft' prediction post and thought you were right about that, and now this.
Wow! I believe you are right. If Jesus was righteous in the Lords eyes, then he should rise again as all the other righteous in Jerusalem are supposed to do, and is foretold in the Original Testament.

Great post!

theindependentjournal

posted on Jan, 3 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17

No one did, it is still unhealthy to eat swine, and that is all the Law was about. Health Laws do not send you to hell, they just send you to heaven quicker!!!

You get sicker and die faster when you eat junk and poison...

Neo Christian Mystic

posted on Jan, 4 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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Well Jesus called the traditional food hygiene laws for hypocracy when he stated that no food was unclean. You can easilly look it up, it has many referances in the NT.

Mark 7:18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean."

Now what here says that pork makes you unclean?

Ant4AU

posted on Jan, 4 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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Here is the plain and simple answer to all the changes made in Christianity. With the Jesus of was sacrificed on the cross it took the place of all of the sacrifices the Jews at the time made to appease God. And with the that it changed most of the Jewish laws such as the unclean animals. The sacrifice of Jesus was a birth of a new religion in which everyone, not just the Jews, could be saved and found worthy in the grace of God. Before Jesus only the Jews were worthy. This is only my opinion so if you believe I am wrong you have a right to and please refrain from flaming.

greshnik

posted on Jan, 4 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Swine is a very clean animal. Also, swine is a VERY INTELLIGENT animal. More intelligent than dogs.

Nothing dirty about pigs. The reason I don't eat pork is - human body is not made to digest meat. We have far to long intestines, and we cannot properly digest ANY meat.

So, I sometimes eat chicken or turkey, and I also eat eggs and dairy (from sheep, not cows).

So, fasting is good for you. Greek Orthodox Christian church is the only church that keeps the fasting as obligatory. No meat is good for you.