the end of the world...a women sits on the red beast (1ST WOMEN PRESIDENT???)

symbolism the bull is not a beast but

The bull is somewhat unique in the world of symbolism in that he is both a solar and a lunar creature. His male fertility, his fiery temperament, and his role as father of the herd make him the masculine sun-god in many cults. Just as the lion is the king and terror of the beasts of the forest, the bull is the king of the farm and the personification of brute strength and power. The lion, the bull, and the sun are popular symbols of life and resurrection. The bull's crescent shaped horns link him to moon worship and symbolism although in some areas the sun is a bull while the moon is a cow. Sin, the moon-god of ancient Ur, was often pictured as a bull.

Its association with the sun makes this animal a god of the heavens, resurrection, and fire, while its association with the moon makes it a god of earth, water, night, and death. This animal's masculinity is not diminished by its feminine lunar connections. However, when ridden by moon-goddesses such as Astarte, its masculine powers are said to be tamed or domesticated.

Bull cults abounded in the ancient world and survive today in such festivities as bullfights and bull-runs. As in Ancient Crete, where dancers leapt over the horns of bulls, these activities are thought to praise the superiority of humans over animals and pit the intellectual or spiritual faculties against brute force and instinct. Oddly enough, the bull being led to the arena is sometimes used to symbolize Christ being led to the cross. There is even a certain movement of the bullfighter's cape called the "Veronica Pass" which is named for the woman who wiped the blood and sweat from Christ's face as He carried His cross to Golgotha.



The bull as a male deity was certainly familiar to the Israelites since many of their neighbors worshipped gods in this form. In addition to the Egyptian bull gods mentioned above, Israelites would've recognized the Canaanite Baal and his sister-wife Astarte who were worshipped in the form of bulls. Baal was sometimes depicted riding a bull while in a standing position. The Babylonian Hadad and Enlil were bull gods. The bull was also associated with Bel and Eabani who might be pictured sporting bull horns and hindquarters. Canaanite worshipers of Molech made huge bronze statues of this god in the shape of a man with a bull's head. These hollow statues were filled with children who were then roasted inside the idols as offerings to Molech (Lev 18:21; 20:2-5; I Ki 11:5-7, 33; 2 Ki 23:10-13; Is 57:9; Jer 32:35; 49:1-3; Zeph 1:5; Acts 7:43). The Israelites sometimes referred God as the "Bull of Israel" or the "Bull of Heaven." When they set up idols for themselves they were in the form of golden calves (Ex 31:1-4;1 Ki 12:28).


In some cultures it is thought that a celestial bull carries the world upon its horns. Unfortunately, this creature occasionally gets rather rowdy and tosses the globe about, catching it upon its horns. This, of course, causes violent earthquakes. In Islamic, Buddhist, and Turkish tradition bulls may carry the world upon their backs as well as upon their horns. According to Buddhist mythology the history of the earth will consist of four distinct ages. As each age passes the bull which supports the earth lifts up one of his legs. When all four ages have passed, the bull will raise his last leg and the earth will fall and be destroyed. In other parts of the world bulls are symbols of the powerful inhabitants of the netherworld.


Bulls were sacrificial victims in many nations. Since their blood was believed to fertilize the earth, the sacrifice of a bull was sometimes associated with the death of winter and the return of spring. In Crete, the worshipers of Dionysus are said to have torn apart a living bull with their teeth as a part of their festivities. According to Jungian psychology, bull sacrifices and bull fights are an acting out of the desire to kill the beast within each of us.

As a former Christian and one who was pounded with the Revelations from childhood on, Ill put in my ideas.

America is niether beast nor woman. Most people, in this time, believe America is the epitome of evil, but a clear glance at history will show it is not. No, if anything, if you read the revelations, America would have to be the good guy because we support and protect Israel unconditionally. We give obscene amounts of money. We side with Israel. In the bible, remeber, israel was gods chosen nation, and in the old testament, it clearly states "bless he who blesses Israel, and curse he who curses Israel". Israel is still gods favorite. That never changed because of his covenant with Abraham and Jacob.

Now, babylon, to anyone who knows anything of histiry, knows that babylon is currently the nation of Iraq. the babylonian empire covered basically the entire oil rich area of the middle east still being faught over, including Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. The kings of the world committed fornication with the Harlot of Babylon. That sounds more like the middle east. Not all the kings on earth have joined nor done biz with the US, but the entire world needs oil, so everyone commits fornication with the middle east.

The Euroipean union is the beast, if one examines prophecy. The original number i believe was 10 nations, before others added themselves? could be wrong. But the EU fits the bill. One only needs to look upon the polcies towards religion and world trade/gov, as well as thier history, to see they very well could fit the bill.

Note also that the EU basically is....yup. You guessed it. THE ROMAN EMPIRE. From the british isles to Turkey, and only a matter of time before middle eastern countires are let in, the EU represents the prophecised return of Rome. Rome could also mean the US, as we are following a scary paralell to the Roman empire, but it could very well mean the EU.

The city of seven hills is Rome. the vatican is close by, but Rome sits on seven hills. Everyone knows this. (Seattle, ironically, once sat on seven hills, till the 1930's when we blew up denny hill and another because it was in our way, were down to 5, so I guess were safe. The space needl;e sits where Denny hill used to be....lol).

Interesting mention of Britian as a lion. I remeber sitting through one painful church service, listening to the preachers end of the world rants, and he was talking about a verse mentioning Tamar and her young lions. he said this was a refrence to Britain and her former colonies, her commonwealth, to include the US, making war with the beast or something like that. Given the fact the right wing Christian BNP is taking over Britain very slowly, and Blair, the pro EU minister, going down like a cheap plane, my guess is Britiain will pull out of the EU, and form some strong link with the commonwealth, and her former colonies and such. From what the preacher said, he said America would fall back under Britain, as we would become weakened, and wed be part of a new British commonwealth. #in A.

Anyways, those who support the beast are those who oppose Israel. Those who support Israel shall wage war with the beast.

Now, you folks see why I left the church and sicne then, have considered christianity to be a heap of BS. All this support Israel crap is enough to make me puke.

However, I do take revelations seriously, in some places, because I believe, that it, amongst many religions of the world, has prophecied comming events. I believe the Mayans, Hindus and pre hindu Aryans, the taoists, the native americans, and a multitude of others, have also accurately predicted events to come. I dont believe it comes from a god, but from phychic types of time travel where people, through the collective conscieness, and time in space, were able to see what was to come, all at the same nexus in history, which is now.

My own personal feelings on revalations?

This is minus any reference to a believe in god or christianity and Jesus.

The EU is the beast, britain will leave. The middle east, Babylon, will grow wealthier, but as time clicks on, oil runs out, once the oil, the whore, has run out, the nations of the world will devour her.

Israel will continue to get a free ride from sugardaddy USA. The UN and the world body will continue to oppress true free speech, and work to demolish religion. They will continue to push the wine on the world, false ideas like consumerism, free sex, self indulgance, sneer at the family and children, push for population control methods, all in the guise of humanitarianism.

The Cathloic church? yeah, they are gonna be a bad part of it.

Rome has already united.

Anyone ever read the Eddas of Norse mythology? The Ragnarok, the twilight of the gods, where everything good and decent amongst humanity goes down the drain, the Norse said the world would be destroyed by fire and ice. In otherwords, nuclear warfare. First, Surt, the king of the fire giants, would burn the earth to ashes. (Nuclear blasts). Then, comes the fimbulwinter, the winter that goes on for three years, freezing the earth and making it unlivable. (nuclear winter).

And then, two people, a man and a woman, alseep in the world tree, would awaken to a new world, ready to be repopulated. Baldur is released from Hels kingdom, and becoems the new king, the sons of the Aesir rejoin him, and everything is peachy king.

One comkon thread in all these prophecies I see theres a happy ending of the sorts, evil is cleansed, and the world becomes a newer better place. Who knows?

But the important thing to do is examine revalations in accordance with other prophecies around the world, it gives a better, less biased, and more complete picture when you do.

dang that was a great post i liked it made me think and go dang that is such a good revalation explanation.

And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: but don't be troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet".

That is about the war in Iraq ( Babylon ) who want Babylon The US why Greed Gluttony ( sins)

The EU the beast ? hmm I dunno the Pope supports the EU.

The battle of Aramgedon will be fought in the lands of Babylon were the eurpraties will dry out.

Also you forgeting a women Clothed by the sun?? Could it be an appirtion of the virgin mary prior to the apoc???

Revelation 17


The Woman and the Beast

1One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries

Many waters represents I think many nations many peoples. THE EU ( o god I live in Berlin)

This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction

who are the five fallen kings? Hitler ? Nero? Saddam(self procaimled decendent of Nebbacenezzer??)

15Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth

COULD These waters mean the world ??? That they will bring her to ruin a world war??

Is prince charles the 8th king according to lineage he is the ROMAN EMPIRES KING

The eighth King who is also one of the seven /the beast who is

wounded by a sword and the unworthy shepherd who is struck with a sword which leaves him with a withered arm and blinded right eye ,

The shepherd who deserts the flock and betrays the ONE TRUE FAITH.


He will be the king / Great Monarch of Europe and the eighth king of a modern day Roman Empire.

Able to head armies, influence matters of world religion and also have all the titles and links to the Antimessiah figure given throughout Holy Scripture.


The beast of revelation, is both described by symbolism of a empire /empires

and also as bieng an individual man and a king .

"I saw a beast that had the body of a leopard ,

the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion" .




This beast on the left-hand side of Charles' coat of arms (pictured above ) has the head and mouth of a lion, the body of a leopard, and the feet of a bear. Typically in heraldry, lions have only three claws per foot while bears will have four or five. This lion has four claws and thus resembles those of a bear. Traditionally in heraldry, the lion has represented England, however Prince Charles' heraldic representation is totally unique in history even differing from that of his mother's, Queen Elizabeth, whose lion has the typical three claws per foot.


(Rev 13:2 KJV) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

(note; the half leopard /lions are unique in english hereldry, according to the heredlic key,

the french termed them leo/ pards (dictinction being half leopard half lions.)

"if any has understanding let him calculate the number of
the beast for it is the number Of A MAN "

This Man is THE VERY CULMINATION of ALL THE POWER THAT IS HIDDEN WITHIN THE SYMBOLISM THAT DESCRIBES ALL THE PAST BEAST EMPIRES that The Prophet Daniel details in his writings.

In daniel's beast kings/kingdoms prophecy we had the leopard beast
the bear beast and the lion beast empires or kings.
The book of revelation gives us A BEAST SYMBOLISM ALSO -
AND IT'S BEAST IS A MONTAGE OF THE SEPERATE BEAST
KINGS/EMPIRES OF DANIELS WRITINGS

-COMPRISED OF THESE THREE ELEMENTS-

LION-
LEOPARD-
BEAR.
The Beast in the book of revelation has a number, this number is a number of A man (not
man in general -note )
But "A" man.(singular)







Also
Revelation 16 says that obsession and preoccupation with the supernatural will be one of the allurements

which Satan uses to deceive the world. The United States is referred to as a Christian nation. It's money declares,

"In God We Trust."

and here is where I get freaked out

more beasts




this one contains nuditiy
THE WOMEN ON THE BEAST

Those pictures have nothing to do with this discussion. Where is the relevence?

By the way, all the information you posted above, where did you get it? Sources? Or did you write it yourself?

im sorry the beast and the lady , beast out of the sea and it does have relavence. read the post carefully

no offence here hunny...cant see the sources

cant u make them links?

and btw...this really looks like its been copied and pasted.

i googled something on this and it came up quite similar!

example....ur first paragraph

The bull is somewhat unique in the world of symbolism in that he is both a solar and a lunar creature. His male fertility, his fiery temperament, and his role as father of the herd make him the masculine sun-god in many cults. Just as the lion is the king and terror of the beasts of the forest, the bull is the king of the farm and the personification of brute strength and power. The lion, the bull, and the sun are popular symbols of life and resurrection. The bull's crescent shaped horns link him to moon worship and symbolism although in some areas the sun is a bull while the moon is a cow. Sin, the moon-god of ancient Ur, was often pictured as a bull.

link

to me thats copied and pasted!

just my opinion!

Sorry Gryf that I didnt cite my sources most are quotes from the book of Rev.

www.bibledecoded.com...
www.ex-sda.com...
bahai-library.com...

i thought english wasnt ur main language...or is ur grammer as bad as mine lol

all ur quotes and all are perfect english while others arent.

and come on...ur word to word in some bits

Originally posted by Kriskaos

15Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth

i think the word "nations" discounts america right there and points to the EU, also theres many more languages in europe than america, also could the great city be brussles(the capitol of the EU)?

[edit on 14-6-2004 by namehere]

I'm not a religious person. I just believe in compassion towards all people. I don't belong to or endorse (or criticize) one religion or another. But I have studied the bible extensively, and this is what I think about the whole beast/end of the world thing.

My theory: 1st beast = E.U. It says the beast will sit upon 7 hills. The territory controled by the Roman Empire was also known by the title of the "seven hills of rome."

It says a woman holding a "cup of sordid deeds" will sit enthroned upon that beast. To my thinking, that = the statue of liberty = the U.S. It does describe this woman as the harlot of the earth, who has commerce with all the nations of the earth, and has grown drunk on the "wine of her lewdness." Unquestionably, the U.S. currently has power over the E.U. There are differences, and sometimes E.U. member states assert their independance, like France and Germany did over the war in Iraq. But it's clear that the U.S. is the sole super power in the world, and ultimately their complaints were trumped by the U.S. and it's plan to "liberate" ( ) Iraq.

However, this state of affairs won't continue if my interpretation is correct. Somehow the events prior to the rise of this "first beast" (the events known as the 7 trumpets or "trumps," and the "seven seals,") will lead to the destruction or weakening of the woman, and the rise of the "beast" to fill the power void. It says the ten horns (kings) of the beast will "turn against" the woman, and "strip her of her finery," and that all the world will lament over her.

I believe the "7 trumpets" events to be infact a single series of events all interrelated, or perhaps even the same event in different phases. A celestial impact of some kind, or a nuclear exchange not extensive enough to destroy all life, but to severely disrupt the current global power balance that will lead to the rise of the "first beast."

This is just a theory, and I don't place TOO much credance in it. And I'm not anti-E.U. or anything. It's not the E.U. but the forces that will manipulate it as they do all governments.

[edit on 14-6-2004 by AceWombat04]

Hehe Gryf sorry Im American but I live in Germany so I spend most of my time speaking German and pretty much the only time I write in English is on the ATS.

Let's get this in perspective. I hope this comes out right when I post it. Put the following list of Daniels and Johns prophecies side by side and you can follow prophecy through history. In Dan 11 it gives the history from Cyrus the Persian until Antiochus Epiphanes of the Macabean period...and on into the future happenings of the great tribulation period.

Daniel's visions were about 'his people' and 'his city', the Jews and Jerusalem.
Daniels prophecies were at the time of the Babylonian Empire and then the Medeo-Persian Empire. Dan 2 and 7 Babylonian rule, Dan 8 Medeo-Persian rule that's why Babylon is no longer mentioned in Daniel's prophecies, they have been defeated.

.............................Dan 2.........................Dan 7.........................Dan 8..........

Babylon...............Head of Gold.................Lion...................Babylon defeated

Medeo-Persia....Shoulders of Silver..........Bear..............................Ram........

Greece.............Chest/Sides of Brass......Leopard..........................Goat........

..........................GAP OF 2000+ YEARSGAP OF 2000+ YEARS.............

Endtime........... Feet &Toes of..............10 horned ......................Little Horn.
Kingdom...........Iron &Clay....................Kingdom..........................................
............................................................Little Horn........................................



In John's revelation the Roman Empire was the oppressor, John is given a broad view of all that had oppressed God's people, not just Jews but all Israel. That's why in these revelations Egypt and Assyria are included. Egypt took all Israel into bondage, Assyria took the northern 10 tribes into bondage.

Rev 13.........................Rev. 17......................................................................

(7 heads) (7 heads) (Beast)
#1 Egypt.......................#1 Egypt....................These...............Once........
#2 Assyria.....................#2 Assyria.................Five..................Was..............
#3 Babylon....................#3 Babylon................Have................of..................
#4 MedeoPersia............#4 MedeoPersia..........Fallen.............these..7.........
#5 Greece.....................#5 Greece................................................................
#6 Rome........................#6 Rome.....................One Is............Now is not.....
..................................GAP OF 2000+ YEARS..................................................
#7 Endtime Kingdom....#7 Endtime Kingdom....Yet to come......Comes out...
..................................................................................................Of the Abyss.


Rev 13
(Beast)
Resembled a leopard....the leopard symbolizes swiftness. In Daniels prophecy the leopard was the Grecian Empire. Alexander the Great, swept over the then known world with nothing stopping him.

Feet like a bear. Feet are grounded in the area of the MedeoPersian Empire. In Daniels prophecy, the bear is MedeoPersia. One shoulder higher than the other symbolizing one of the nations being more powerful than the other, with 4 ribs in it's mouth. Four generals had to be taken down before the 2 nations were joined. Like in the Dan 2 prophecy the feet of Iron and clay mix symbolizes an area, feet grounded in the Roman Empire...but a weaker and looser confederacy of 10 nations (toes)

Mouth like a lion, mouths are for speech. Dan 2 says the lion is Babylon. The Babylonian religion is humanism, beginning with Nimrod, the builder of Babylon and the tower of Babel. The 'I don't need God, I can do anything' mentality of man trying to be God, and christianity trying to make it to heaven by their own efforts and not by the power of the Spirit to change us into His likeness. Humanism is the religion that the whore church and false prophet teach. As you know it has started many years ago. Church is no longer a place where you go to learn the truths of God's word. Also media has decided since "The Passion", that they are the authorities on christianity. PBS, The Learning Channel, Discovery Channel, are teaching bogus christianity. They are all denying the deity of Christ and only speak of His humanity.
I'm tired and need to sleep. I'll try to post here tomorrow with more on 'the little horn'. It's not what you think. In the mean time, read about what happened in Dan 10:12-13, 10:20-11:1
Who is this prince of persia, that could hold up an archangel?....not an earthly prince.



The heads are mountains, in prophecy mountains symbolize nations.

Notice in the previous post that there are more that one thing mentioned...

# 1 There is the geographic area of the Roman Empire symbolized by feet (Dan 2 & Rev 13), the RE is also symbolized in Dan 7 as having iron teeth symbolizing it's devouring of the nations and ingesting them into it's body (it was the largest Empire). Iron symbolizes the Roman Empire. So the 10 toed( iron/clay) kingdom is is the area of the RE, the 10 crowns symbolize the rulers or kings of these nations, the 10 horns symbolize their power. In the middle east there will be a formation of a loose confederacy of 10 nations, out of the 10 will come a little horn (little power) that grew in power and uproots 3 of the nations (Dan 7).



#2 The man who will lead the 10 nations is symbolized by, rider on a white horse (Rev 6), this shows that he is the false deliverer (Christ). The real Christ or deliverer comes on a white horse in Rev 19. He comes with a peace plan symbolized by a bow and no arrow, the 7 year peace plan (Dan 9:27) will be accepted by the nations of the Middle East, and Jerusalem will feel secure. At the mid-point of the tribulation he changes his mind and attacks the other nations in the area including Israel and Egypt. He by-passes Jordan (Edom & Moab) to go after Egypt and will conquer it. He will also put a stop to Jewish religious practices. Notice that this man has a major change of heart at the mid point... Why?

The little horn that is spoken of throughout prophecy symbolizes a power, not human power though but demonic power.
In Dan 9 & 10 an angel comes to Daniel to deliver the message of response to Daniel's prayer. I'm going to paraphrase here...the Arch Angel is saying:
'Daniel, when you prayed 3 weeks I set out to deliver the response to it. But I was held back by the prince of Persia, I couldn't get through. So Michael the the chief prince of the princes came to help me. Now when I go back and fight the Prince of Persia with Michael the prince of Persia will be no more but then the Prince of Grecia will come.'

The princes referred to are angels, the prince of Persia and Grecia are fallen angels or demons. This is no earthy prince that takes 2 Archangels to defeat. It was a demon prince a cosmo crotoros that Paul describes in Ephesians as world rulers or powers. The demon power of the MedeoPersian Empire was bound in the abyss by the Archangel and Michael the chief Archangel, that's why the Grecian Empire took over, and Alexander the Great empowered by the prince of Grecia (demon) could not be defeated. There was no other demon power to fight for control of the area so A the G swept through and took control of all. A the G was noted for going to the Oracles before he would make a move, this is probably where he became possessed. He was a cruel man who even killed his brother for teasing him. When the demon that possessed A the G was bound in the abyss A the G died. Notice in Dan 8 where Alexander is symbolized by the goat and the M/P Empire is symbolized by the Ram, the Ram has 2 horns symbolizing the 2 powers, Media and Persia joined together in one body. The Ram is struck by the goat shattering it's horns and the ram was powerless to stand, the demon prince of Persia had been bound and they were powerless against the prince of Grecia that empowered Alexander. At the height of A the G's power his horn was broken off (prince of Grecia bound). In it's place 4 horns grew up but not with the same power. After A the G died his 4 generals were given his territory. Ptolomy was given Egypt, and Seleusius was given what is now N.W. Iraq, N. Iran, S. Syria, S.E. Turkey, E. Lebanon, and the Jordan peninsula. These are the 2 main players in the history of Dan 11 (which was Daniel's future) where there were many wars and dirty dealings between the Seleucid Kingdom and Egypt. The Seleucid Kingdom was eventually designated part of the Roman Empire.
This little horn comes out of the Seleucid KIngdom. Dan 8:9 out of one of them (the 4 horns) came the little horn. Dan 11 gives the history of Egypt and the Seleucid Kingdom, in vs 20 it speaks of Antiochus Epiphanes of the Macabbean Era then the gap of 2000+ years, in vs 21 it speaks of his successor which is antichrist.
The 10 nations are in the area of the Roman Empire but the one who will be Antichrist will be a leader of a nation that once was in the Seleucid Kingdom...so that narrows it down to Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey, Syria and Jordan (we can discount Jordan since it is the Edom & Moab of Dan 11:41)


The little horn of Dan and Rev is demon power. At the mid point of the Tribulation 200,000,000 demons are released from the abyss, among them is the prince of Grecia that goes to possess and empower the man who is the leader of the 10 nation confederacy and who becomes known as Antichrist.
Notice in Rev. 13...The dragon gave the beast his power, the dragon is named in Rev 20 as that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan. Satan is the boss of the demons, he set himself up as a god with his angels (demons) under him, they are his messengers and they do his will. He sends out the Prince of Grecia to empower the man who then becomes antichrist.
Rev 17:8 'The beast which you saw once was , now is not, and will come out of the Abyss.' It was during the previous 5 kingdoms (vs 10) that oppressed God's people, Egypt, Assyria, MedeoPersia and Greece (the demon was in this time period) Is not...at the time of Daniel when the Roman Empire was the oppressor. Will come out of the Abyss'...and is also the '8th king'. A king or ruler possessed by the demon beast.

Two things are spoken of in the previous verses, one is the power of the beast which is demonic power, the other is the man referred to as the 8th king which is the one that will be possessed by this demonic power.
The power came out of the Abyss.

Jesus when in Gadara was confronted by a boy who was possessed by a legion of demons, the demons asked if He was going to put them in the Abyss before their time.
At the mid-point of the tribulation Satan is bound to the earth (Rev 12), he knows his time is short so he seeks to destroy as many of God's people as he can by deception and destruction.
In Rev 9 the 6th angel released the 4 angels (demons) who are bound at the Euphrates.
In Rev there are also 200,000,000 demons released, described as mounted troops.
In Rev. 17 the beast (demon) will come out of the abyss, at the mis-point of the tribulation.
In Rev 20 Satan is bound in the abyss for 1000 years
Satan will be released from the abyss after the 1000 years for a short time.

I hope this helps in the understanding that the wars being fought are not just nation against nation but also unseen wars between angels and demons. When Pres. Bush says that he believes he is doing God's will, he is doing just that. Some seem to forget just who is in control...God ! He will allow nations to go only so far, then he puts a stop to it. The power that controls them can be demonic or God. The USA was instituted by God as was the British Empire. We seem to see only the evil that these nations embody and not see what they have done that was God's will. Demonic power is forever wrestling with God's power and they are allowed to go so far...that's why Britain and the US are not perfectly good but have some evil that has filtered in. God has given peophecy for the US and Britain, and things are going just like they are suppose to, there will not be another world was, the battle of Armageddon will be fought in the Middle East. The US will never be defeated and neither will Britain. They must go together to fight God's wars. WW2 could not be won until the US joined the battle with Britain. The US could not win the Vietnam war because Britain wasn't with them. The war in Iraq was a cake walk, we watched it on TV, the US and Britain and Allies just took it in no time....a miracle? Yes, God's hand was on them. There will be a period of change in the Middle East that could take many years, out of which will come the 10 toed kingdom.
Satan the deceiver wants everyone looking at the EU so that they wont see what's going on in the middle east. Evil is in the EU for sure, as it is in the whole world. Remember Satan said to Jesus in the temptation that he would give Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, they were his and he had the right to give them to whom ever he wanted. When Adam forfeited the world, Satan became ruler with a limited power over God's chosen people. The chosen are not just Jews, they are all that have faith in God whether Jew or Gentile.
The reality of the whole last days events is that God is in control, so why does everyone want to know When will it happen? Where will it happen? Who are the players?.......instead why not say to the creator, I want to be on Your side, I want to escape this whole mess, I want to rule and reign with You...so You do the work, send me Your Spirit and change me into the likeness of Your Son.

I forgot to mention the wounded head in my last post. It is not a gunshot to the head of the man and then healed. It refers to the demonic power that was wounded when put in the abyss, and then healed when it was released at the mid tribulation point and possesses the man. There will be other miraculous signs that accompany the beast, people love miracles so alot will fall for it.

Upon the head of the woman is a crown of twelve thorns.

The EU flag is twelve stars arranged in a circle or 'crown' pattern. Despite the fact the EU has 25 member states its leaders will keep the flag at twelve stars.

Yup the nation of the Beast is none other than the EU.

I say the US should nuke the hell out of it before it gets any more powerful........(just leave the UK alone, Tony B wont be about for much longer, either because he's voted out of office or by, ahem, other means. Tony better heed the warnings the British populace is about ripe enough now to mount a coup if Tony continues to lie to us.)

[edit on 17-6-2004 by rustiswordz]

[edit on 17-6-2004 by rustiswordz]

Originally posted by baked


The Vatican is a country CIA Factbook

The USA has nothing to do with this. The beast is the EU with Russia or China.

Agreed, the vatican is a country but it does not fit complete discription in Revelation, America does. The Vatican isn't buying so many goods that after she is burned the sailors and traders are crying at sea.

The beast However is definitely the EU and the Anti-Christ will arise out of it.