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what is the deal with Alex Jones
page: 5share:
I listen to AJ regularly and find MOST of his information to be spot-on. It’s the poison pill that you have to look out for. What bothers me most
about him is his over the top histrionics. Particularly on his Sunday show, he’ll yell and scream like a maniac. This seems to me to be designed to
provoke people into rash action, particularly when he pairs it with talk about guns and protecting your family. I haven’t noticed it lately, but in
the past he would have obviously staged calls with people who spoke like hillbillies bashing him and his beliefs. I also have to wonder why he seems
to get away with being easily the most prominent voice in the ‘truth movement’, having Hollywood whoremongers and even Willey Nelson on his show,
without the slightest consequence from the PTB. He claims to have violated Bohemian Grove with impunity, but the two guys who emulated him now sit in
prison. There are many reasons to proceed with caution where AJ is concerned, but I will continue to listen. It’s important to know what the PTB
want you to do and believe. I should add that Genesis hosts two of the men I most trust as sources of info, Dr. Stan Monteith, and Butch Paugh.
PS Don’t feed the trolls!
PS Don’t feed the trolls!
A Short Background for Context:
OP, personally I've asked the same question of Alex and myself. I was raised an avid talk radio listener since as young as I can remember, by my father - a traveling salesman, whose only source of entertainment in the car was radio.
I also went to a conservative Lutheran primary school. There, we learned the Bible - not what or how to think about it, but simply what was therein. As evangelicals, I was taught that the Spirit would reveal to me what was necessary for me to know. What I came away with is the following:
1) Evil Runs The World
2) Only God Can Set It Right, Not Man
To The Point:
Concerning Alex Jones, as with most everyone, I want to think the best - and fault myself when I cannot. I cannot look into another mans heart and know the motives, or the history that made them who they are. However, here are 2 points of many that trouble me:
1) Multiple Joint IWC Bases Exist, Housed in and Around Austin
2) A Large Number of AJ Show Guests Have Intelligence Backgrounds
OP, personally I've asked the same question of Alex and myself. I was raised an avid talk radio listener since as young as I can remember, by my father - a traveling salesman, whose only source of entertainment in the car was radio.
I also went to a conservative Lutheran primary school. There, we learned the Bible - not what or how to think about it, but simply what was therein. As evangelicals, I was taught that the Spirit would reveal to me what was necessary for me to know. What I came away with is the following:
1) Evil Runs The World
2) Only God Can Set It Right, Not Man
To The Point:
Concerning Alex Jones, as with most everyone, I want to think the best - and fault myself when I cannot. I cannot look into another mans heart and know the motives, or the history that made them who they are. However, here are 2 points of many that trouble me:
1) Multiple Joint IWC Bases Exist, Housed in and Around Austin
2) A Large Number of AJ Show Guests Have Intelligence Backgrounds
I posted this to Alex Message board a while back. Alex blasted me on the air, put me down, and belittled me, almost to the point of verbal abuse.
Then I posted the second part, as a follow up, on the board.
Hi Alex,
I have never called into the program, but I'm about to for the first time.
I've been researching for almost 20 years, like yourself. I agree with about 95% of what you have to say. But, there are some topics of discussion that I will happily debate you on.
First off, please don't be angry with me. I love you, and I love what you're all about, Alex. I want to challenge you, and make you take a higher ground stand for the truth.
There are several topics I want to debate you on, however, it will never happen in ten or twenty minutes, so if you want ot have me on, i'll be calling this week to try to get on to talk with you. Please don't curse at me or lose your cool. I'll do my best to show my respect for you and your opinion. Maybe we can have a REAL debate. Provided you don't ban yourself. (No cursing)
If you're not afraid, and if you're not in a bad mood, and if your willing to confront issues that I can and will debate, then let's really take the gloves off, and do some straight shooting arguing.
Topic #1 - Which side are you on? -- According to the book "Scarlet and the Beast" by John Daniel, argueably the greatest conspiracy book ever put together, and not very well known.....There always have been two sides fighting against each other. There are the French Lodges of Freemasonry and the English Lodges of Freemasonry. There are also the Grand Orient "Unwarranted" lodges. There are also the Scottish Rite and York Rite Lodges. The Scottish Rite has a Northern and Southern Jurisdiction. -- I'm curious Alex, which side are you on? I will debate that you represent one side of this two sided coin. -- According to the Book, movers and shakers like Lydon LaRouche are likely but not fingered, members of the Grand Orient Lodges who are "unwarranted" and oppose English York Rite Freemasonry, represented by the bankers, Wall Street, Skull and Bones, and the Eastern Banking Establishment. According to John Daniel, the author, the unwarranted lodges work in stealth and not in "official" ways, to oppose the actions of the other side. In other words, Freemasonry has always been at war with itself, and all factions in the world, are working for one of the two sides, whether knowing it or not. The French Lodges or the English Lodges. Both are at war with each other, being orchestrated only by the higher ups. According to the book, the Priory of Sion split with the Templars under an arrangement called the "Cutting of the Elm at Gisors", and both agreed to go their seperate ways. But this was after the Templars stole the Wealth of Soloman's Gold from the Priory, which was under Soloman's Temple, and the Sion group vowed revenge and to get their gold back. The persecution of the Templars by Philip the Fair, was apparently related to this event. -- My question to you Alex, is .....do you know the difference between the various lodges and sides? and if not, why not? and basically to flesh this whole thing out with you, as much as possible in about 10 minutes or so, if possible. The last 1700 years have been all about the war between these two factions, and somewhere in here, we can find some common ground, and maybe a decent arguement or two.
Topic #2 - No Planes hit the Twin Towers on 911. TV Fakery. Fetzer, Reynolds, and the missing buildings, 19 rector street, the rendering bridge, the cartoon planes. -- I firmly don't believe any planes hit the Twin Towers on 911. Call me crazy, but I have slowed down all the frames. I have watched all the videos. I have analyzed FRAME BY FRAME the planes crashing into the towers, and I have saved the videos and made the comparisons. There are far too many "glitches in the matrix" in this one for me to ignore.
Number 1....the Planes do not explode until they are actually inside the buildings. No plane crash on the face of any buildings, only planes "magically dissappearing into the buildings" in ALL videos. Aluminum does not trump steel. (FACT) -- There are frames with only one wing showing. Frames with the airplane nose coming out from the other side of the building BEFORE you see explosions on the face of the buildings the planes entered in.
Number 2....The cartoons shown to us by CNN and the major networks contains movement flaws. The bridge is "rendered" as in CGI in one of the films. That is CLEAR to anyone who has done ANY animation. the Tower get's closed in on, in the camers view, but the bride seems to be floating by like it's a sailboat or something. THIS IS A FAKE VIDEO!
Number 3....The Cartoons ALL show different angles of the planes crashing into the buildings. One shows a straight flight path, and another shows an angled flight pattern. Clearly, one of them is FAKE!!! (At least one of them, if not all of them) -- How can a plane be shown to fly straight in one video and angled in another.
Number 4....In the video 19 Rector Street, it is clearly proven that the CNN video contains a "missing building". A building that exists in the skylike next to the Towers is MISSING from the CNN video. The Google Earth or Whatever the tricksters used to make the video....lect out this building and they didn't realize it when showing it to the public on TV.
My question to you Alex, is .......what do you have to say to respond to this? I want you to respond to EACH ONE OF THESE ISSUES, WITHOUT DIVERTING THE SUBJECT. I doubt you can and will, but maybe you'll prove me wrong. I hope you will.
Hi Alex,
I have never called into the program, but I'm about to for the first time.
I've been researching for almost 20 years, like yourself. I agree with about 95% of what you have to say. But, there are some topics of discussion that I will happily debate you on.
First off, please don't be angry with me. I love you, and I love what you're all about, Alex. I want to challenge you, and make you take a higher ground stand for the truth.
There are several topics I want to debate you on, however, it will never happen in ten or twenty minutes, so if you want ot have me on, i'll be calling this week to try to get on to talk with you. Please don't curse at me or lose your cool. I'll do my best to show my respect for you and your opinion. Maybe we can have a REAL debate. Provided you don't ban yourself. (No cursing)
If you're not afraid, and if you're not in a bad mood, and if your willing to confront issues that I can and will debate, then let's really take the gloves off, and do some straight shooting arguing.
Topic #1 - Which side are you on? -- According to the book "Scarlet and the Beast" by John Daniel, argueably the greatest conspiracy book ever put together, and not very well known.....There always have been two sides fighting against each other. There are the French Lodges of Freemasonry and the English Lodges of Freemasonry. There are also the Grand Orient "Unwarranted" lodges. There are also the Scottish Rite and York Rite Lodges. The Scottish Rite has a Northern and Southern Jurisdiction. -- I'm curious Alex, which side are you on? I will debate that you represent one side of this two sided coin. -- According to the Book, movers and shakers like Lydon LaRouche are likely but not fingered, members of the Grand Orient Lodges who are "unwarranted" and oppose English York Rite Freemasonry, represented by the bankers, Wall Street, Skull and Bones, and the Eastern Banking Establishment. According to John Daniel, the author, the unwarranted lodges work in stealth and not in "official" ways, to oppose the actions of the other side. In other words, Freemasonry has always been at war with itself, and all factions in the world, are working for one of the two sides, whether knowing it or not. The French Lodges or the English Lodges. Both are at war with each other, being orchestrated only by the higher ups. According to the book, the Priory of Sion split with the Templars under an arrangement called the "Cutting of the Elm at Gisors", and both agreed to go their seperate ways. But this was after the Templars stole the Wealth of Soloman's Gold from the Priory, which was under Soloman's Temple, and the Sion group vowed revenge and to get their gold back. The persecution of the Templars by Philip the Fair, was apparently related to this event. -- My question to you Alex, is .....do you know the difference between the various lodges and sides? and if not, why not? and basically to flesh this whole thing out with you, as much as possible in about 10 minutes or so, if possible. The last 1700 years have been all about the war between these two factions, and somewhere in here, we can find some common ground, and maybe a decent arguement or two.
Topic #2 - No Planes hit the Twin Towers on 911. TV Fakery. Fetzer, Reynolds, and the missing buildings, 19 rector street, the rendering bridge, the cartoon planes. -- I firmly don't believe any planes hit the Twin Towers on 911. Call me crazy, but I have slowed down all the frames. I have watched all the videos. I have analyzed FRAME BY FRAME the planes crashing into the towers, and I have saved the videos and made the comparisons. There are far too many "glitches in the matrix" in this one for me to ignore.
Number 1....the Planes do not explode until they are actually inside the buildings. No plane crash on the face of any buildings, only planes "magically dissappearing into the buildings" in ALL videos. Aluminum does not trump steel. (FACT) -- There are frames with only one wing showing. Frames with the airplane nose coming out from the other side of the building BEFORE you see explosions on the face of the buildings the planes entered in.
Number 2....The cartoons shown to us by CNN and the major networks contains movement flaws. The bridge is "rendered" as in CGI in one of the films. That is CLEAR to anyone who has done ANY animation. the Tower get's closed in on, in the camers view, but the bride seems to be floating by like it's a sailboat or something. THIS IS A FAKE VIDEO!
Number 3....The Cartoons ALL show different angles of the planes crashing into the buildings. One shows a straight flight path, and another shows an angled flight pattern. Clearly, one of them is FAKE!!! (At least one of them, if not all of them) -- How can a plane be shown to fly straight in one video and angled in another.
Number 4....In the video 19 Rector Street, it is clearly proven that the CNN video contains a "missing building". A building that exists in the skylike next to the Towers is MISSING from the CNN video. The Google Earth or Whatever the tricksters used to make the video....lect out this building and they didn't realize it when showing it to the public on TV.
My question to you Alex, is .......what do you have to say to respond to this? I want you to respond to EACH ONE OF THESE ISSUES, WITHOUT DIVERTING THE SUBJECT. I doubt you can and will, but maybe you'll prove me wrong. I hope you will.
Continued....
Topic #3....UFOs and Aliens on Earth, Moon Missions, NASA Etc.
Alex claims that the people who put this information out are trying to confuse and add disinformation to the truth movement and conspiracy related forums.
Alex, you mean to tell me that Bill Cooper, Bill Hamilton, John Lear, Richard Hoagland, David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Jeff Rense, Whitley Streiber, Bud Hopkins, Brad Steiger, Billy Meir, Val Valerian, Dan Burish, Project Camelot, little 11 year old Boriska, David Wilcock, Philip Corso, Gary McKinnon, Steven Greer, Major George Filer, Lt Col. John Williams, Dr. Carol Rosen, Comm. Graham Bethuny, Don Philips, Prof. Robert Jacobs, and the whole Disclosure Project, Robert Morning Sky, Alex Collier, Barbara Marciniak, Bob Lazaar, etc. etc. etc. .......you're claiming they are all agents working on the same team huh?
All working to spread lies and alien information that does not exist for what purpose? To keep us all looking in places for something that does not exist? That's a whole lot of people in on a major plot to disinform the public, consciously.
Well, Alex, your argument that there is a NWO and that hundreds of people work together in collusion to perfect a more controlled population and that they plan to exterminate people etc. That's believable because there is a ton of information on it. But all you have to show that the UFO movement is a government conspiracy of disinformation is the fact that Rockefeller sponsored a meeting of UFO researchers and that The Rockefellers are involved in a related way, somehow and they are also behind the "green" movement so, therefore, you proclaim, that the whole thing is NOT REAL.
Well, at the same time, you are actually dismissing a whole world of spirituality that exists in fact. You claim your a Christian, but you show no tolerance for other people's version of spirituality. The world is not as material and physical as you believe. Matter is NOT solid. There is a ton of space in between. In the same way, there is a ton of information out there that proves to anyone with an open mind, that there is more to reality than there is that meets the eye. In an instance, your dismissing everything non-material.
You dismiss all abductions, unless they are government secret projects. You dismiss all channelings. All contactee experiences. All ideas foreign to the idea that the government is involved. That's closed minded, and reeks of ignorance or deliberate intentional misguidance. I'm not accusing you of doing anything bad intentionally. But you could be severely misguided yourself.
I find it of peculiar interest that you don't allow room for an alternative point of view. Alex does not say anything like "there could be something to it, but i'm not aware of it personally", or "there is truth to it i'm sure, but there is so much disinformation out there mixed in with the truth, that I would be foolish to tackle it and try to prove it to you".....now that is reasonable, but instead, Alex claims it's all government disinformation and the information is all either manufactured, or put out by unwitting dupes of CIA mind control. That argument is ridiculous in my opinion.
So, Alex, ghosts don't exist, bigfoot doesn't exist, UFOs are all government black ops, and all abductions are done by the government or they are hallucinations and never happened....and btw, when you die, that's the end of you, right? No Reincarnation or chance to do it again, or differently, right? Survivalist thinking to the ultimate degree. Food storage, gold, and fight till the end, kill the enemy before he kills you, right? Don't get me wrong...those are all good things to consider, but how about the SPIRIT? What happened to the spirit?
There are 3 kinds of people. One kind speaks nothing but spiritual matters. One kind speaks of spiritual matters and also material matters, and a third speaks of nothing but material matters. Ghosts, Bigfoots, UFOs and other earthy and non earthly anomalies are considered to be spiritual in nature. They are not "the norm" but to accept them as a possible reality is part of having an open mind. Anyone who claims the opposite, is seeking to control you and keep you from having an open mind. That is obvious to me. An open minded person, who is spiritual, will always allow others to have a particular belief, regardless of whether or not its true in their opinion. Why is this? Because the truly open minded and spiritual person, always considers that maybe, just maybe, there is a chance they are wrong, themselves, so usually an enlightened and spiritual person, will preface what they say as their truth with the words, "it is my opinion that ....." or "what I believe is ....." -- That's part of allowance in communication. If Alex were to speak with me or debate me, anyone listening would hear me refer to my beliefs in this way.
Now, comparing this idealogy and approach to your own Alex, what do you have to say about this? Any attempt to dismiss it, is an excuse to avoid it. Do you allow room for others to think the way they want to about spiritual matters? Or do you insist that people think like you and if they disagree then they are all agents working together, along with unwitting dupes? Please elaborate., and give MORE PROOF than Rockefeller involvement in funding a UFO conference, and a few articles about how the CIA can implant thoughts into people's minds, and how they have used alien abduction scenarios in mind control projects. That is all well and dandy, but it does little to disprove the existance of aliens of non-earth based spaceships, when compared with the overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary.
Topic #3....UFOs and Aliens on Earth, Moon Missions, NASA Etc.
Alex claims that the people who put this information out are trying to confuse and add disinformation to the truth movement and conspiracy related forums.
Alex, you mean to tell me that Bill Cooper, Bill Hamilton, John Lear, Richard Hoagland, David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Jeff Rense, Whitley Streiber, Bud Hopkins, Brad Steiger, Billy Meir, Val Valerian, Dan Burish, Project Camelot, little 11 year old Boriska, David Wilcock, Philip Corso, Gary McKinnon, Steven Greer, Major George Filer, Lt Col. John Williams, Dr. Carol Rosen, Comm. Graham Bethuny, Don Philips, Prof. Robert Jacobs, and the whole Disclosure Project, Robert Morning Sky, Alex Collier, Barbara Marciniak, Bob Lazaar, etc. etc. etc. .......you're claiming they are all agents working on the same team huh?
All working to spread lies and alien information that does not exist for what purpose? To keep us all looking in places for something that does not exist? That's a whole lot of people in on a major plot to disinform the public, consciously.
Well, Alex, your argument that there is a NWO and that hundreds of people work together in collusion to perfect a more controlled population and that they plan to exterminate people etc. That's believable because there is a ton of information on it. But all you have to show that the UFO movement is a government conspiracy of disinformation is the fact that Rockefeller sponsored a meeting of UFO researchers and that The Rockefellers are involved in a related way, somehow and they are also behind the "green" movement so, therefore, you proclaim, that the whole thing is NOT REAL.
Well, at the same time, you are actually dismissing a whole world of spirituality that exists in fact. You claim your a Christian, but you show no tolerance for other people's version of spirituality. The world is not as material and physical as you believe. Matter is NOT solid. There is a ton of space in between. In the same way, there is a ton of information out there that proves to anyone with an open mind, that there is more to reality than there is that meets the eye. In an instance, your dismissing everything non-material.
You dismiss all abductions, unless they are government secret projects. You dismiss all channelings. All contactee experiences. All ideas foreign to the idea that the government is involved. That's closed minded, and reeks of ignorance or deliberate intentional misguidance. I'm not accusing you of doing anything bad intentionally. But you could be severely misguided yourself.
I find it of peculiar interest that you don't allow room for an alternative point of view. Alex does not say anything like "there could be something to it, but i'm not aware of it personally", or "there is truth to it i'm sure, but there is so much disinformation out there mixed in with the truth, that I would be foolish to tackle it and try to prove it to you".....now that is reasonable, but instead, Alex claims it's all government disinformation and the information is all either manufactured, or put out by unwitting dupes of CIA mind control. That argument is ridiculous in my opinion.
So, Alex, ghosts don't exist, bigfoot doesn't exist, UFOs are all government black ops, and all abductions are done by the government or they are hallucinations and never happened....and btw, when you die, that's the end of you, right? No Reincarnation or chance to do it again, or differently, right? Survivalist thinking to the ultimate degree. Food storage, gold, and fight till the end, kill the enemy before he kills you, right? Don't get me wrong...those are all good things to consider, but how about the SPIRIT? What happened to the spirit?
There are 3 kinds of people. One kind speaks nothing but spiritual matters. One kind speaks of spiritual matters and also material matters, and a third speaks of nothing but material matters. Ghosts, Bigfoots, UFOs and other earthy and non earthly anomalies are considered to be spiritual in nature. They are not "the norm" but to accept them as a possible reality is part of having an open mind. Anyone who claims the opposite, is seeking to control you and keep you from having an open mind. That is obvious to me. An open minded person, who is spiritual, will always allow others to have a particular belief, regardless of whether or not its true in their opinion. Why is this? Because the truly open minded and spiritual person, always considers that maybe, just maybe, there is a chance they are wrong, themselves, so usually an enlightened and spiritual person, will preface what they say as their truth with the words, "it is my opinion that ....." or "what I believe is ....." -- That's part of allowance in communication. If Alex were to speak with me or debate me, anyone listening would hear me refer to my beliefs in this way.
Now, comparing this idealogy and approach to your own Alex, what do you have to say about this? Any attempt to dismiss it, is an excuse to avoid it. Do you allow room for others to think the way they want to about spiritual matters? Or do you insist that people think like you and if they disagree then they are all agents working together, along with unwitting dupes? Please elaborate., and give MORE PROOF than Rockefeller involvement in funding a UFO conference, and a few articles about how the CIA can implant thoughts into people's minds, and how they have used alien abduction scenarios in mind control projects. That is all well and dandy, but it does little to disprove the existance of aliens of non-earth based spaceships, when compared with the overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary.
Continued.....
Topic # 4....Sovereignty and Law and the Lien process.
No matter what you say, or claim, I have got 14 years of studies in this area of FREEDOM, and YOU DON'T! - I have been to hundreds of meetings of the real patriots and sovereigns. Not the people who sit in talk show booths, but the people who are on the street fighting in the courts for their freedom and yours. These are people who DO BATTLE where battle is done legally and and at it's most violent, without actually killing anyone. That is the real battle. The battle exists in the courtroom, not the radio talk show booth. That is the war of words, and the war for the mind (Mind Control). But what makes a cop back off a person, and leave them alone, and what makes a prosecutor run out of the courtroom, and what makes a judge flee the bench, and what makes the city, county and state actually leave you alone? FIGHTING THEM IN COURT!!!! Representing yourself, taking a stand, and hitting them before they hit you. How is this done? The entire court system is a corporate fiction, and they are acting as government representatives, and they do not have authority unless we give it to them. There are hundreds of ways to keep them off your back, and ways to fight and win in court. It's only when they play dirty, and take our property without doing it properly, that we can use weapons like the lien process to keep them in line. Many people do things wrong, and many people make mistakes, but there is no mistake in using the lien process when it is used peoperly.
The entire IRS system is a Lien process. The affidavit filed, served and notice. The Account. The Charges. The Default Notices, etc. Every time the government takes your body and warehouses it in prison, the lien process is being used against you. The whole time they take your house and car and bank account the lien process is being used against you. YOU, Alex, tell people NOT to use the lien process, and not to represent themselves and not to learn to fight the system in the courts. It sounds to me like you are a sheepherder, or a "Shepherd".
Larry Becraft is probably THE MOST HATED LAWYER IN ALL THE PATRIOT MOVEMENT. He has backstabbed more people and sold out more patriots down the river than any other sellout lawyer there is. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Larry is a traitor to many.
My question to you, is...."Why do you consistently keep people from learning about alternative methods of fighting in the courts? That's Larry Becraft's job!!! -- And you can't use the excuse that you don't want to see people go to jail, because there have been plenty that Larry has helped send to jail with less than justicable plea bargains.
Topic # 5..... Topic # 5.....2012
Alex claims that everything related to 2012 is being used to bring about fear in the population. Yes, he admits, there are weather changes that are happening that are part of natural cycles, and yes, there will be some upheaval, but don't worry about it, it's mostly just the government trying to scare you. That's a bunch of bullcrap, Alex. 2012 is a real event, and nobody knows exactly what will happen. There is some speculation that the reason nobody knows has to do with the idea that if there are 6 billion people on earth, that there will be 6 billion different outcomes occuring at the same time, on different frequency levels. Each person experiencing what he or she expects will happen or experienving what he or she is anticipating or according to their individual belief system.
I would like you, Alex, to speak to the fact of not only the end of the Mayan Calender, which is more well known, but also the Terrence McKennas Time Wave Zero Graph created in conjunction with the I-Ching which is a computer program which ended on exactly Dec. 12, 2012. And the Web-Bot financial analysis software which also ended on Dec. 21, 2012, coincidentally. These are some very interesting times we are in, and there is much to discuss, but simply relegating it all to "government junk science" or anything similar is an excuse to avoid dealing with the real issue, which is all the corresponding information presented everywhere you look, from Yellowstone Supervolcano possibilities, to Solar Flares building up to a climax in 2012, to Project Looking Glass, and the Astral Travelers of the Monroe Institute and more. There is so much to discuss and compare, but if we can only entertain certain ideas, with closed minds, then will may not get very far. We may end up with...."it's a government disinformation plot to keep you from learning about Martial Law, and the Bilderbergs, and the 911truth movement". Right, Alex? Or am I wrong? Please debate me, if you have balls of steel like the legends and fables proclaim.
Topic # 4....Sovereignty and Law and the Lien process.
No matter what you say, or claim, I have got 14 years of studies in this area of FREEDOM, and YOU DON'T! - I have been to hundreds of meetings of the real patriots and sovereigns. Not the people who sit in talk show booths, but the people who are on the street fighting in the courts for their freedom and yours. These are people who DO BATTLE where battle is done legally and and at it's most violent, without actually killing anyone. That is the real battle. The battle exists in the courtroom, not the radio talk show booth. That is the war of words, and the war for the mind (Mind Control). But what makes a cop back off a person, and leave them alone, and what makes a prosecutor run out of the courtroom, and what makes a judge flee the bench, and what makes the city, county and state actually leave you alone? FIGHTING THEM IN COURT!!!! Representing yourself, taking a stand, and hitting them before they hit you. How is this done? The entire court system is a corporate fiction, and they are acting as government representatives, and they do not have authority unless we give it to them. There are hundreds of ways to keep them off your back, and ways to fight and win in court. It's only when they play dirty, and take our property without doing it properly, that we can use weapons like the lien process to keep them in line. Many people do things wrong, and many people make mistakes, but there is no mistake in using the lien process when it is used peoperly.
The entire IRS system is a Lien process. The affidavit filed, served and notice. The Account. The Charges. The Default Notices, etc. Every time the government takes your body and warehouses it in prison, the lien process is being used against you. The whole time they take your house and car and bank account the lien process is being used against you. YOU, Alex, tell people NOT to use the lien process, and not to represent themselves and not to learn to fight the system in the courts. It sounds to me like you are a sheepherder, or a "Shepherd".
Larry Becraft is probably THE MOST HATED LAWYER IN ALL THE PATRIOT MOVEMENT. He has backstabbed more people and sold out more patriots down the river than any other sellout lawyer there is. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Larry is a traitor to many.
My question to you, is...."Why do you consistently keep people from learning about alternative methods of fighting in the courts? That's Larry Becraft's job!!! -- And you can't use the excuse that you don't want to see people go to jail, because there have been plenty that Larry has helped send to jail with less than justicable plea bargains.
Topic # 5..... Topic # 5.....2012
Alex claims that everything related to 2012 is being used to bring about fear in the population. Yes, he admits, there are weather changes that are happening that are part of natural cycles, and yes, there will be some upheaval, but don't worry about it, it's mostly just the government trying to scare you. That's a bunch of bullcrap, Alex. 2012 is a real event, and nobody knows exactly what will happen. There is some speculation that the reason nobody knows has to do with the idea that if there are 6 billion people on earth, that there will be 6 billion different outcomes occuring at the same time, on different frequency levels. Each person experiencing what he or she expects will happen or experienving what he or she is anticipating or according to their individual belief system.
I would like you, Alex, to speak to the fact of not only the end of the Mayan Calender, which is more well known, but also the Terrence McKennas Time Wave Zero Graph created in conjunction with the I-Ching which is a computer program which ended on exactly Dec. 12, 2012. And the Web-Bot financial analysis software which also ended on Dec. 21, 2012, coincidentally. These are some very interesting times we are in, and there is much to discuss, but simply relegating it all to "government junk science" or anything similar is an excuse to avoid dealing with the real issue, which is all the corresponding information presented everywhere you look, from Yellowstone Supervolcano possibilities, to Solar Flares building up to a climax in 2012, to Project Looking Glass, and the Astral Travelers of the Monroe Institute and more. There is so much to discuss and compare, but if we can only entertain certain ideas, with closed minds, then will may not get very far. We may end up with...."it's a government disinformation plot to keep you from learning about Martial Law, and the Bilderbergs, and the 911truth movement". Right, Alex? Or am I wrong? Please debate me, if you have balls of steel like the legends and fables proclaim.
Then after I called in the program , and got crapped on publicly, by Alex, spewing his nasty venomous retarded diatribes.....
Allright, most of this was written before I called in this afternoon. Now I should respond to Alex and what he said to me today.
That was a cheap shot Alex.
I came on the program, in all sincerity, in all kindness, to debate you on the issues true to my heart. My voice is no less important than yours, especially when you consider your thousands of hours of yapping on the air.
Thank you for listening to me about the No Planes theries even if you did only give me a few moments to speak on it.
You NEVER responded, or even finished listening to my second comment and question AT ALL. Or simply, shouted and started getting angry with me when I merely mention Larry Becraft, as if to jump in front of the train to save your best friend. That was totally uncalled for, and you could have at least heard me out, if your going to cut me off, yell at me, and then yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, for the next 14 minutes about all the disinformation agents. (Totally diverting the subject, once again, for which you are becoming famous)......yap, yap, yap, the guy at the rally, the crazy hair, the No Planers being all disinfo agents, and then your standing on your high horse, and saying there will probably be a utube video, and people will accuse you of stifling free speech etc. Sound like Orwellion double speak to me, Alex.
You RUSHED ME through my call, then CUT ME OFF, then used 14 minutes of valuable airtime, which we could have been debating legitimately, and used it to preach from the high mountain, about all the peopole opposing you and how they are all disinformation agents or crazy people. Great use of your airtime, and finances, and making the most of the situation, TO YOUR ADVANTAGE, ALEX. Why not let in some alternative viewpoints from time to time? What have you got to fear?
I'll be sending you the no-planes page I put together recently, and I want you to address each and every issue and I'll be calling back in this week to debate you more.
I'm challenging you Alex. Let's spare, allright. Friendly fighting among fellow researchers, both working towards good causes, in our hearts. Step up to the plate, and let's see if you can hit the pitches I throw you, and i'll do the same. No name calling, no accusations, no screaming, and NO GLOVES! Let's go!
Allright, most of this was written before I called in this afternoon. Now I should respond to Alex and what he said to me today.
That was a cheap shot Alex.
I came on the program, in all sincerity, in all kindness, to debate you on the issues true to my heart. My voice is no less important than yours, especially when you consider your thousands of hours of yapping on the air.
Thank you for listening to me about the No Planes theries even if you did only give me a few moments to speak on it.
You NEVER responded, or even finished listening to my second comment and question AT ALL. Or simply, shouted and started getting angry with me when I merely mention Larry Becraft, as if to jump in front of the train to save your best friend. That was totally uncalled for, and you could have at least heard me out, if your going to cut me off, yell at me, and then yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, for the next 14 minutes about all the disinformation agents. (Totally diverting the subject, once again, for which you are becoming famous)......yap, yap, yap, the guy at the rally, the crazy hair, the No Planers being all disinfo agents, and then your standing on your high horse, and saying there will probably be a utube video, and people will accuse you of stifling free speech etc. Sound like Orwellion double speak to me, Alex.
You RUSHED ME through my call, then CUT ME OFF, then used 14 minutes of valuable airtime, which we could have been debating legitimately, and used it to preach from the high mountain, about all the peopole opposing you and how they are all disinformation agents or crazy people. Great use of your airtime, and finances, and making the most of the situation, TO YOUR ADVANTAGE, ALEX. Why not let in some alternative viewpoints from time to time? What have you got to fear?
I'll be sending you the no-planes page I put together recently, and I want you to address each and every issue and I'll be calling back in this week to debate you more.
I'm challenging you Alex. Let's spare, allright. Friendly fighting among fellow researchers, both working towards good causes, in our hearts. Step up to the plate, and let's see if you can hit the pitches I throw you, and i'll do the same. No name calling, no accusations, no screaming, and NO GLOVES! Let's go!
And THIS IS WHY Alex Jones is a GATEKEEPER of TRUTH
War Between French & English Freemasonry : Jones/Birchers V. LaRouchers
When one reads this line from Eustace Mullins, one would have to wonder if it's true or not, right? Well, it may seem absurd, however, if you read the following below, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
This thread started it, here, thanks to the persistence of stupidity and ignorance among a few posters here.
Is the Birch Society a Zionist Front? - 100777.com...
iresist.com...
Eustice Mullins notes:
The Rockefellers were also active on the "right-wing" front through their sponsorship of the John Birch Society . To enable Robert Welch, a 32nd degree Mason, to devote all of his time to the John Birch Society, Nelson Rockefeller purchased his family firm, the Welch Candy Company, from him at a handsome price. Welch chose the principal officers of the John Birch Society from his acquaintances at the Council On Foreign Relations . For years afterwards, American patriots were puzzled by the consistent inability of the John Birch Society to move forward on any of its well-advertised "anti-Communist" goals . The fact that the society had been setup at the behest of the backers of the world Communist revolution may have played some role in this development ."
From Scarlet and the Beast, a History of the War between English and French Freemasonry.
"While most such distributers are anti-semitic, the largest of these, the John Birch Society, is not and normally eschews anti-semitic literature, but apparently makes a special acception in the case of Nesta Websters writings. In fact, Nesta Webster's conspiriological studies are especially esteemed by the John Birch Society's founder Robert Welch. As recently as 1976, Mr. Welch reiterated his faith in their soundness by characterizing Mrs. Websters books as "splendid sources".
This attitude appears to be largely shared by leading John Birch society reserchers, including Gary Allen and William H. McIlhany II in which the latter gave a spiritted defense of Mrs Webster's scholarship.
There are three accusations made by Richard Gilman to discredit Mrs. Webster's credibility:
1. Her role as the scion of one of Britain's leading international banking families makes her part of the oligarchy conspiracy. .
2. Her penchant for the occult, particularly her theory that she was the reincarnation of the Comptess de Sabran, an 18th century French aristocrat.
3. Her close association with the Britons Publishing Society which was, for nearly half a century, one of the major publishers and distributors of the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" in the English-Speaking world.
A Scion of one of Britain's Leading Banking Families
The editor of Conspiracy Digest (Summer 1980) concurs with Richard Gilman, stating the following concerning Nesta Webster's connection to a leading international banking family. :
"The point to keep in mind is that as a supporter of the British empire, Nesta Webster was at least a defacto supporter of the Round Table conspiracy since British Imperialism was and is it's goal. The interesting question is whether Webster was a knowing or manipulated disinformation agent for the Round Table......[A]s a Director of Barclay's her father was doubtelessly deeply involved [in the oligarchy conspiracy] and very well could have recruited her.
A hypothesis that deserves investigation is that Webster's function was to divert blame for "World Revolution" from British Intelligence "black operations" to the mythical Learned Elder's of Zion and once real Illuminati.
The Conspiracy Digest suggests that Mrs. Webster is a spokesperson for the English Masonic conspiracy, because her books expose the Grand Orient Masonic conspiracy against world governments. Her books do not condemn English Freemasonry but rather praise it, even warning the British that the French Grand Orient atheistic ideals have the potential of penetrating British society through English Freemasonry -- if the brotherhod does nto guard against it.
Furthermore, Mrs. Webster is praised by English Masons, one of whom is 33rd Degree Mason H.G. Wells, a member of the Round Table, who commented on her work in his own writings as follows : "In the "Fate of Homo Sapien" I drew attention to the influence of Mrs. Nesta Webster's "Secret Societies and Subversive Movements" It is a book that all serious people interested in the British situation ought to read and think about, and very few of them do......I believe her influence has spread beyond the circle of the actual readers."
The British Masonic Record also praises "Secret Societies and Subversive Movements" : "This book will give thinking persons much scope for reflection.....[I]t will bring home to many...what the underground subversive movements of today have become."
Continued on next post.....
War Between French & English Freemasonry : Jones/Birchers V. LaRouchers
When one reads this line from Eustace Mullins, one would have to wonder if it's true or not, right? Well, it may seem absurd, however, if you read the following below, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
This thread started it, here, thanks to the persistence of stupidity and ignorance among a few posters here.
Is the Birch Society a Zionist Front? - 100777.com...
iresist.com...
Eustice Mullins notes:
The Rockefellers were also active on the "right-wing" front through their sponsorship of the John Birch Society . To enable Robert Welch, a 32nd degree Mason, to devote all of his time to the John Birch Society, Nelson Rockefeller purchased his family firm, the Welch Candy Company, from him at a handsome price. Welch chose the principal officers of the John Birch Society from his acquaintances at the Council On Foreign Relations . For years afterwards, American patriots were puzzled by the consistent inability of the John Birch Society to move forward on any of its well-advertised "anti-Communist" goals . The fact that the society had been setup at the behest of the backers of the world Communist revolution may have played some role in this development ."
From Scarlet and the Beast, a History of the War between English and French Freemasonry.
"While most such distributers are anti-semitic, the largest of these, the John Birch Society, is not and normally eschews anti-semitic literature, but apparently makes a special acception in the case of Nesta Websters writings. In fact, Nesta Webster's conspiriological studies are especially esteemed by the John Birch Society's founder Robert Welch. As recently as 1976, Mr. Welch reiterated his faith in their soundness by characterizing Mrs. Websters books as "splendid sources".
This attitude appears to be largely shared by leading John Birch society reserchers, including Gary Allen and William H. McIlhany II in which the latter gave a spiritted defense of Mrs Webster's scholarship.
There are three accusations made by Richard Gilman to discredit Mrs. Webster's credibility:
1. Her role as the scion of one of Britain's leading international banking families makes her part of the oligarchy conspiracy. .
2. Her penchant for the occult, particularly her theory that she was the reincarnation of the Comptess de Sabran, an 18th century French aristocrat.
3. Her close association with the Britons Publishing Society which was, for nearly half a century, one of the major publishers and distributors of the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" in the English-Speaking world.
A Scion of one of Britain's Leading Banking Families
The editor of Conspiracy Digest (Summer 1980) concurs with Richard Gilman, stating the following concerning Nesta Webster's connection to a leading international banking family. :
"The point to keep in mind is that as a supporter of the British empire, Nesta Webster was at least a defacto supporter of the Round Table conspiracy since British Imperialism was and is it's goal. The interesting question is whether Webster was a knowing or manipulated disinformation agent for the Round Table......[A]s a Director of Barclay's her father was doubtelessly deeply involved [in the oligarchy conspiracy] and very well could have recruited her.
A hypothesis that deserves investigation is that Webster's function was to divert blame for "World Revolution" from British Intelligence "black operations" to the mythical Learned Elder's of Zion and once real Illuminati.
The Conspiracy Digest suggests that Mrs. Webster is a spokesperson for the English Masonic conspiracy, because her books expose the Grand Orient Masonic conspiracy against world governments. Her books do not condemn English Freemasonry but rather praise it, even warning the British that the French Grand Orient atheistic ideals have the potential of penetrating British society through English Freemasonry -- if the brotherhod does nto guard against it.
Furthermore, Mrs. Webster is praised by English Masons, one of whom is 33rd Degree Mason H.G. Wells, a member of the Round Table, who commented on her work in his own writings as follows : "In the "Fate of Homo Sapien" I drew attention to the influence of Mrs. Nesta Webster's "Secret Societies and Subversive Movements" It is a book that all serious people interested in the British situation ought to read and think about, and very few of them do......I believe her influence has spread beyond the circle of the actual readers."
The British Masonic Record also praises "Secret Societies and Subversive Movements" : "This book will give thinking persons much scope for reflection.....[I]t will bring home to many...what the underground subversive movements of today have become."
Continued on next post.....
an entire page full of ON-topic posts and realy replies to the OP. i could just cry. thank you so much for restoring my faith in humanity's abiliity
to read and comprehend. thanks so much for all your input. i got some real reading to do so thanks.
[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]
[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]
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Now drawing a comparison to LaRouche.....and the Grand Orient...let's see what "Scarlet and the Beast" has to say about Grand Orient Freemasonry.
Lyndon LaRouche
Lyndon LaRouche writes on the Oligarchy conspiracy, which we identified previously with English Freemasonry. I researched Lyndon LaRouche for 4 years, and to my knowledge LaRouche has never mentioned the illuminati or the French Freemasonry conspiracy, which makes me suspect that he is a closet communist. Books published by the New Benjamin Franklin House are from the LaRouche network. His periodicals are Executive Intelligence Review (EIR), Investigative Leads, and New Solidarity.
LaRouche will appeal to Christians because he writes against the high orders of Freemasonry and their occult teachings; against the CFR Trilateralist control of government; against communism and the KGB as tramplers of human rights; against liberation theology in Latin America; aganist genocide; against abortion; against drugs; and for a balanced economy, including a possible return to the gold standard.
But LaRouche is a deciever. He has no understanding of Christianity (Ed Note : The author is a Christian, unbiased in everything I have read from him), especially fundamentals and evengelicals. His publication takes a humanist viewpoint -- almost leaning toward the new age movement.
......"As LaRouche's political base grew, (Ed. Note : Read Media Empire/Infowars, Prison Planet, Prison Planet TV, Info Warroars Network, etc...), he became a dangerous rival to the "power elite". Biding their time, the "power elite" waited until enough evidence was gathered that proved LaRouche was financing his political rise illegally. The time was right during the spring of 1987, when federal agents, acting under orders from federal bankruptcy judge, siezed the headquarters of LaRouche and took control of three of his companies."......
LaRouche's Platform
The Readeer's Digest in 1986 called LaRouche "far right". (Page 91) Newsweek, May 26, 1986, calls him a "right wing activist" Page 63). The Atlanta Journal, May 21, 1986, refers to him as an anti-semitic extremist (page 22a) The New York Times, June 2 1986, informs us that he was a "one time communist" (page 16-y), which makes him "far left".
Who is Lyndon LaRouche? Is he right wing or left wing? To find the answers to these questions, and more, I wrote the Conservative Heritige Foundation. Following is the Summary of the foundation's analysis :
........."After leaving the serviceLaRouche surfaced in 1948 as a member of the Socialist Worker's Party (SWP), a Trotskyite communist group. Although he left the SWP in 1957, he continued to be active in communist circles, and supported himself by working as a management consultant and systems analyst. During the late 1960's, LaRouche, using the name ("Lynn Marcus"), was listed as a faculty member at several of the Marxist "alternative" schools which sprang up at the time. In June, 1968, LaRouche became active with the radical Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) , an arm of Grand Orient Freemasonry, teaching a course at their "Summer Liberation School" organized at Columbia University. From this, he was able to assume a leadership role in the SDS Labor Committee which eventually evolved into the National Caucus of Labor Committee. (NCLC).
During a dispute over support of striking teachers in New York City, LaRouche split with the SDS leadership by taking a position on behalf of the strikers, and broke off the NCLC from the SDS. The NCLC, which remains in existence today, formed the core of what would eventually become the LaRouche network."
LaRouche has managed to attract a small, but fanatical following to his conspiratorial view of the world. (Ed Note : Read: Jones) Despite their small numbers (estimated at from one to three thousand), he has managed to fashion them into a surprisingly broad network of organizations that not only extend to many many major cities in the U.S., but to Europe and Latin America as well.
All of the groups adhere to LaRouches ideology, which holds that a "super elite", which he calls the "Oligarchy", controls world events. Included in the oligarchy are such disparate elements as the Rockefeller family, the British Royal family, the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, the Soviet KGB, National Review, and the Heritage Foundation.
The use of various fronts has been among the LaRouche network's most successful tactics (Ed Note : Read "We are change, 911 Truth, etc."), enabling it to atttract unwitting, well-intentioned citizens to it's cause. Obviously laRouche learned well from his Masonic research, for he uses identical tactics.
Now drawing a comparison to LaRouche.....and the Grand Orient...let's see what "Scarlet and the Beast" has to say about Grand Orient Freemasonry.
Lyndon LaRouche
Lyndon LaRouche writes on the Oligarchy conspiracy, which we identified previously with English Freemasonry. I researched Lyndon LaRouche for 4 years, and to my knowledge LaRouche has never mentioned the illuminati or the French Freemasonry conspiracy, which makes me suspect that he is a closet communist. Books published by the New Benjamin Franklin House are from the LaRouche network. His periodicals are Executive Intelligence Review (EIR), Investigative Leads, and New Solidarity.
LaRouche will appeal to Christians because he writes against the high orders of Freemasonry and their occult teachings; against the CFR Trilateralist control of government; against communism and the KGB as tramplers of human rights; against liberation theology in Latin America; aganist genocide; against abortion; against drugs; and for a balanced economy, including a possible return to the gold standard.
But LaRouche is a deciever. He has no understanding of Christianity (Ed Note : The author is a Christian, unbiased in everything I have read from him), especially fundamentals and evengelicals. His publication takes a humanist viewpoint -- almost leaning toward the new age movement.
......"As LaRouche's political base grew, (Ed. Note : Read Media Empire/Infowars, Prison Planet, Prison Planet TV, Info Warroars Network, etc...), he became a dangerous rival to the "power elite". Biding their time, the "power elite" waited until enough evidence was gathered that proved LaRouche was financing his political rise illegally. The time was right during the spring of 1987, when federal agents, acting under orders from federal bankruptcy judge, siezed the headquarters of LaRouche and took control of three of his companies."......
LaRouche's Platform
The Readeer's Digest in 1986 called LaRouche "far right". (Page 91) Newsweek, May 26, 1986, calls him a "right wing activist" Page 63). The Atlanta Journal, May 21, 1986, refers to him as an anti-semitic extremist (page 22a) The New York Times, June 2 1986, informs us that he was a "one time communist" (page 16-y), which makes him "far left".
Who is Lyndon LaRouche? Is he right wing or left wing? To find the answers to these questions, and more, I wrote the Conservative Heritige Foundation. Following is the Summary of the foundation's analysis :
........."After leaving the serviceLaRouche surfaced in 1948 as a member of the Socialist Worker's Party (SWP), a Trotskyite communist group. Although he left the SWP in 1957, he continued to be active in communist circles, and supported himself by working as a management consultant and systems analyst. During the late 1960's, LaRouche, using the name ("Lynn Marcus"), was listed as a faculty member at several of the Marxist "alternative" schools which sprang up at the time. In June, 1968, LaRouche became active with the radical Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) , an arm of Grand Orient Freemasonry, teaching a course at their "Summer Liberation School" organized at Columbia University. From this, he was able to assume a leadership role in the SDS Labor Committee which eventually evolved into the National Caucus of Labor Committee. (NCLC).
During a dispute over support of striking teachers in New York City, LaRouche split with the SDS leadership by taking a position on behalf of the strikers, and broke off the NCLC from the SDS. The NCLC, which remains in existence today, formed the core of what would eventually become the LaRouche network."
LaRouche has managed to attract a small, but fanatical following to his conspiratorial view of the world. (Ed Note : Read: Jones) Despite their small numbers (estimated at from one to three thousand), he has managed to fashion them into a surprisingly broad network of organizations that not only extend to many many major cities in the U.S., but to Europe and Latin America as well.
All of the groups adhere to LaRouches ideology, which holds that a "super elite", which he calls the "Oligarchy", controls world events. Included in the oligarchy are such disparate elements as the Rockefeller family, the British Royal family, the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, the Soviet KGB, National Review, and the Heritage Foundation.
The use of various fronts has been among the LaRouche network's most successful tactics (Ed Note : Read "We are change, 911 Truth, etc."), enabling it to atttract unwitting, well-intentioned citizens to it's cause. Obviously laRouche learned well from his Masonic research, for he uses identical tactics.
Continued from previous post.
What puzzles most casual observers of the LaRouche operation is just what it is that the organization really stands for, and what it is that it wants. Depending on the moment and the issue, LaRouche can appear to be ultra right wing, ultra left wing, or somewhere in between. There are, however, certain themes that run consistently through the ideology of his network. Among them, so say his accusers, is virulent anti-semitism.
However, many in the LaRouche network are Jewish, such as Anton Chaitkin, author of Treason in America; Richard Dreyfuss; author of Hostage to Khomeini; and David Goldman and Jeffrey Steinberg, co authors of "Dope Inc."
Dr. John Coleman, an anti-Masonic conspiracy researcher and former British Intelligence officer, says, in a letter dated Sept. / Oct, 1986, that LaRouche's publication New Solidarity, is funded by the KGB. So also believes the Heritige Foudation. Coleman adds that New Solidarity "is run by Jews and should be called Jew Solidarity".
In an attempt to make some sense of these allegations, zI spent many telephone hours with the LaRouche network from 1982 ot 1986. In conversation with a particular LaRouche solicitor, who, incidently, was Jewish, I asked, "Why is LaRouche slandered by the Anti-Defamation League as anti-semetic, when so many of you are Jews?" the female solicitor answered, "There are different kinds of Jews." I then asked, "Is LaRouche anti-semetic or not?" She answered, "No, we are anti-Zionist." My final question was, "Is LaRouche Jewish?" She answered, "No".
In another conversation with a LaRouche solicitor from Washington, D.C., headquarters, I asked Do you realize there are two Freemasonries? LaRouche only condemns the British form." The solicitor answered, "There are bad Masons and good Masons." I asked, "Who are the good Masons?" The solicitor answered, "People like Ben Franklin and George Washington".
Realizing that both Franklin and Washington were backed by French Freemasonry, I suspected LaRouche was as well. My final question was, "Is LaRouche a Grand Orient Freemason?", and the solicitor answered, "Yes".
My conclusion is that LaRouche is backed, not by the KGB, but by the Communistic French Grand Orient Lodge. When he made his extended trip to Europe, he must have joined the Grand Orient. His Jewish contingency are Reform Jews, who from their inception have been teied to Grand Orient Masons. Apparanetly, LaRouche's assignment is to bring down America with a Communist Revolution.
Why then, do I use some of hi spublications and documentation for my book?
The answer is simply that LaRouche is a voice from one side of the conspiracy. His battle is with the English Freemasonic oligarchy. His intelligence network is broad, spanning North America, South America, and Europe. (Ed. Note : Read : We are Change U.K.). He has agents that have penetrated the inner shrines of English FreemasonryHis people have done extensive research into the British control of the world's illegal drug traffic. His research sources are reliable, although his political and religious theories are not.
The question may fairly be asked, "How can LaRouche's (Ed. Note : Read Alex Jones) research information be credible, if he is a deciever?"
The answer is simple "through verification". Relying on our investigative background, we use information from laRouche publications that can be verified by one or more unrelated sources. LaRouche is usually ahead of all other researchers by two years. For example, his network exposed the Masonic assassination of Pope John Paul I two full years before other books were written on the subject in 1984. I use his material only after the latecomers confirm. Historical accuracy is determined by how closein time to the event the author is writing. the closer, the more accurate. LaRouche was the first exposer of current events, and more detailed than the latecomers."
What puzzles most casual observers of the LaRouche operation is just what it is that the organization really stands for, and what it is that it wants. Depending on the moment and the issue, LaRouche can appear to be ultra right wing, ultra left wing, or somewhere in between. There are, however, certain themes that run consistently through the ideology of his network. Among them, so say his accusers, is virulent anti-semitism.
However, many in the LaRouche network are Jewish, such as Anton Chaitkin, author of Treason in America; Richard Dreyfuss; author of Hostage to Khomeini; and David Goldman and Jeffrey Steinberg, co authors of "Dope Inc."
Dr. John Coleman, an anti-Masonic conspiracy researcher and former British Intelligence officer, says, in a letter dated Sept. / Oct, 1986, that LaRouche's publication New Solidarity, is funded by the KGB. So also believes the Heritige Foudation. Coleman adds that New Solidarity "is run by Jews and should be called Jew Solidarity".
In an attempt to make some sense of these allegations, zI spent many telephone hours with the LaRouche network from 1982 ot 1986. In conversation with a particular LaRouche solicitor, who, incidently, was Jewish, I asked, "Why is LaRouche slandered by the Anti-Defamation League as anti-semetic, when so many of you are Jews?" the female solicitor answered, "There are different kinds of Jews." I then asked, "Is LaRouche anti-semetic or not?" She answered, "No, we are anti-Zionist." My final question was, "Is LaRouche Jewish?" She answered, "No".
In another conversation with a LaRouche solicitor from Washington, D.C., headquarters, I asked Do you realize there are two Freemasonries? LaRouche only condemns the British form." The solicitor answered, "There are bad Masons and good Masons." I asked, "Who are the good Masons?" The solicitor answered, "People like Ben Franklin and George Washington".
Realizing that both Franklin and Washington were backed by French Freemasonry, I suspected LaRouche was as well. My final question was, "Is LaRouche a Grand Orient Freemason?", and the solicitor answered, "Yes".
My conclusion is that LaRouche is backed, not by the KGB, but by the Communistic French Grand Orient Lodge. When he made his extended trip to Europe, he must have joined the Grand Orient. His Jewish contingency are Reform Jews, who from their inception have been teied to Grand Orient Masons. Apparanetly, LaRouche's assignment is to bring down America with a Communist Revolution.
Why then, do I use some of hi spublications and documentation for my book?
The answer is simply that LaRouche is a voice from one side of the conspiracy. His battle is with the English Freemasonic oligarchy. His intelligence network is broad, spanning North America, South America, and Europe. (Ed. Note : Read : We are Change U.K.). He has agents that have penetrated the inner shrines of English FreemasonryHis people have done extensive research into the British control of the world's illegal drug traffic. His research sources are reliable, although his political and religious theories are not.
The question may fairly be asked, "How can LaRouche's (Ed. Note : Read Alex Jones) research information be credible, if he is a deciever?"
The answer is simple "through verification". Relying on our investigative background, we use information from laRouche publications that can be verified by one or more unrelated sources. LaRouche is usually ahead of all other researchers by two years. For example, his network exposed the Masonic assassination of Pope John Paul I two full years before other books were written on the subject in 1984. I use his material only after the latecomers confirm. Historical accuracy is determined by how closein time to the event the author is writing. the closer, the more accurate. LaRouche was the first exposer of current events, and more detailed than the latecomers."
Personally I like Alex Jones. When you have him alone hes mild mannered, respectful, humble. When hes in anti_NWO mode hes,,,well what you see..a
rabid BULLDOG. However, I think his worked up ranting can go overboard and I think it can shut peoples ears.
Alexs information is pretty dead on and some say he plays the info up. Well he should. There is not enough people in this sinking ship that dont get worked up enough or play it up enough.
Alexs information is pretty dead on and some say he plays the info up. Well he should. There is not enough people in this sinking ship that dont get worked up enough or play it up enough.
Originally posted by fastwalker23
Personally I like Alex Jones. When you have him alone hes mild mannered, respectful, humble. When hes in anti_NWO mode hes,,,well what you see..a rabid BULLDOG. However, I think his worked up ranting can go overboard and I think it can shut peoples ears.
Alexs information is pretty dead on and some say he plays the info up. Well he should. There is not enough people in this sinking ship that dont get worked up enough or play it up enough.
i guess what i am looking for is the evidence that what he says is so "right on." simply because the more i look, the more i find he is proven a liar. so...i dont even have the trust in him i had just weeks ago. so id really love it if anyone can substantiate that he is "right on" about so much, that would be great. i cant find crap to really back him up on much of anything.
reply to post by fastwalker23
Alex is ALL HYPE!
Yes, he tells things that are truthful, but not the complete truth.
Everything is twisted by Alex to suit his AGENDA. What Agenda is that?
I think it works kinda like this.
The Machine: Hey kid, we have something to talk with you about.
Alex Jones: Oh, yeah, I don't have anything to talk to you about, other than letting you have a piece of my mind. I hate what the system is doing to people, and there isn't anything you can tell me to change my mind. I have been researching your game and I know what you're all about.
The Machine: Settle down, young man, we're not here to harass you or bother you, we want to make you a very special offer.
Alex Jones: Yeah, i'm listening, what is it you want?
The Machine: We have been watching you. We have noticed you have some good qualities and you're very passionate. You really want to change the system, dont you?
Alex Jones: Yes, i'm sick of it! I can't stand the abuses, the concentration camps, the gearing up for martial law, the genocide, etc.
The Machine: Your a very articulate young man, and you appear to have a very memory retention as well. That can work well for you.
Alex Jones: Well, I have been studying the issues and they are important to me.
The Machine: Well, you know, people don't make a living hawking conspiracy books and videos. It's not a financially rewarding job.
Alex Jones: Well that's allright, I'm determined, i'll do what it takes, and who knows, maybe i'll become a famous film-maker one day.
The Machine: We already know that you'll become a famous film-maker one day.
Alex Jones: How do you know that? What do you mean?
The Machine: We told you what to dream. You dreamed of a big radio star, who made major films that were seen wide and far.
Alex Jones: And I like to eat in the steak bar. Do you think I will drive a Jaguar?
The Machine: Well, Alex, you know the only people who survive in the game, are the ones that play along with the rules of the game. You know this, don't you?
Alex Jones: Well, I dont necessarily believe that. If they want to kill me, they can do that. But they won't dampen my spirit and my effect on the world.
The Machine: Alex, there are worse things that can happen to you than you being injured or killed. Your family could suffer, and then you'll suffer even more. Now, i'm not saying that will happen, but i'm just proposing, that there are always people who can reach you, and hurt you. What is to stop them from doing this?
Alex Jones: Look, if you're threatening me, you better leave right now buddy, cause you're getting me real mad.
The Machine: Well, I don't want to get you mad Alex. Actually, you see, I came to speak to you to offer you a real serious and promising opportuinity.
Alex Jones: I knew it, of course, they want to stop me. Of course they want to buy me out or pay me off to suppress me right?
The Machine: No, actually we want to do the opposite.
Alex Jones: What do you mean? Is this some sort of a trick or something? You know, you can't fool me. I know all your games. You play people against each other, you rape, kill and destroy people's lives, you're all dirty players, and I can small your dirt a mile away.
The Machine: Well you know Alex, we are not all, "bad" people. Some of us actually oppose some of the ideas of the New World Order. We are not all on the same side, you know. There is great division in the ranks. You have heard of the John Birch Society haven't you?
Alex Jones: Yes, I know of them, they are a pretty good group of people.
The Machine: Well, yeah they are, and believe it or not, they work for us.
Alex Jones: In what way?
The Machine: Well, who do you think helped set up the John Birch Society? The Rockefeller's helped start it off. Oh, you were't aware of that, were you?
Alex Jones: Well, no, I wasn't. That just doesn't make sense. Why would the Rockefellers do that, when they are the ones who are pushing for a one-world government?
The Machine: Well, it's simple really. You're an intelligent person, Alex, I'm sure you'll understand this. The families that are in power that no real challenges in the world. We don't really believe the people will ever wake up even if the truth was placed right in front of them. We have tested this over and over, and we know the nature of peple and what makes them tick. As long as they have their luxuries, they will look the other way.
Alex Jones: Yeah, tell me about it.
The Machine: Well, you see, my friend, some of our supposed enemies are actually our "friends". Our friends not only recieve funding from us from time to time, they get left alone, in the overall scheme of things. Our "friends" get to meet all sorts of famous people, like celebrities and rock stars, and they get to basically do and say what they want. We don't treat our friends bad. After all, we are helping each other.
Alex Jones: Well, how are you proposing that I can help you, and you can help me?
The Machine: Just continue to do what your doing now. Don't change a thing, overall. You can keep talking about the New World Order, the FEMA concentration camps, the United Nations troops, the martial law program, the eugenics and genocide and things like gun rights and your views on god, abortion and the bible. That's all fine with us.
Alex Jones: Really! You are actually encouraging me to do this?
The Machine: Well, to a limit, of course.
Alex Jones: What limites are we talking about?. I dont know if I like the sound of that.
The Machine: Well, we are offering you success, Alex. We are offering you safety. We are offering you financial rewards that the ability to do what your heart and passion desires, with your life, and your activism.
Alex Jones: Well, what are these limits, then. Tell me now!
Alex is ALL HYPE!
Yes, he tells things that are truthful, but not the complete truth.
Everything is twisted by Alex to suit his AGENDA. What Agenda is that?
I think it works kinda like this.
The Machine: Hey kid, we have something to talk with you about.
Alex Jones: Oh, yeah, I don't have anything to talk to you about, other than letting you have a piece of my mind. I hate what the system is doing to people, and there isn't anything you can tell me to change my mind. I have been researching your game and I know what you're all about.
The Machine: Settle down, young man, we're not here to harass you or bother you, we want to make you a very special offer.
Alex Jones: Yeah, i'm listening, what is it you want?
The Machine: We have been watching you. We have noticed you have some good qualities and you're very passionate. You really want to change the system, dont you?
Alex Jones: Yes, i'm sick of it! I can't stand the abuses, the concentration camps, the gearing up for martial law, the genocide, etc.
The Machine: Your a very articulate young man, and you appear to have a very memory retention as well. That can work well for you.
Alex Jones: Well, I have been studying the issues and they are important to me.
The Machine: Well, you know, people don't make a living hawking conspiracy books and videos. It's not a financially rewarding job.
Alex Jones: Well that's allright, I'm determined, i'll do what it takes, and who knows, maybe i'll become a famous film-maker one day.
The Machine: We already know that you'll become a famous film-maker one day.
Alex Jones: How do you know that? What do you mean?
The Machine: We told you what to dream. You dreamed of a big radio star, who made major films that were seen wide and far.
Alex Jones: And I like to eat in the steak bar. Do you think I will drive a Jaguar?
The Machine: Well, Alex, you know the only people who survive in the game, are the ones that play along with the rules of the game. You know this, don't you?
Alex Jones: Well, I dont necessarily believe that. If they want to kill me, they can do that. But they won't dampen my spirit and my effect on the world.
The Machine: Alex, there are worse things that can happen to you than you being injured or killed. Your family could suffer, and then you'll suffer even more. Now, i'm not saying that will happen, but i'm just proposing, that there are always people who can reach you, and hurt you. What is to stop them from doing this?
Alex Jones: Look, if you're threatening me, you better leave right now buddy, cause you're getting me real mad.
The Machine: Well, I don't want to get you mad Alex. Actually, you see, I came to speak to you to offer you a real serious and promising opportuinity.
Alex Jones: I knew it, of course, they want to stop me. Of course they want to buy me out or pay me off to suppress me right?
The Machine: No, actually we want to do the opposite.
Alex Jones: What do you mean? Is this some sort of a trick or something? You know, you can't fool me. I know all your games. You play people against each other, you rape, kill and destroy people's lives, you're all dirty players, and I can small your dirt a mile away.
The Machine: Well you know Alex, we are not all, "bad" people. Some of us actually oppose some of the ideas of the New World Order. We are not all on the same side, you know. There is great division in the ranks. You have heard of the John Birch Society haven't you?
Alex Jones: Yes, I know of them, they are a pretty good group of people.
The Machine: Well, yeah they are, and believe it or not, they work for us.
Alex Jones: In what way?
The Machine: Well, who do you think helped set up the John Birch Society? The Rockefeller's helped start it off. Oh, you were't aware of that, were you?
Alex Jones: Well, no, I wasn't. That just doesn't make sense. Why would the Rockefellers do that, when they are the ones who are pushing for a one-world government?
The Machine: Well, it's simple really. You're an intelligent person, Alex, I'm sure you'll understand this. The families that are in power that no real challenges in the world. We don't really believe the people will ever wake up even if the truth was placed right in front of them. We have tested this over and over, and we know the nature of peple and what makes them tick. As long as they have their luxuries, they will look the other way.
Alex Jones: Yeah, tell me about it.
The Machine: Well, you see, my friend, some of our supposed enemies are actually our "friends". Our friends not only recieve funding from us from time to time, they get left alone, in the overall scheme of things. Our "friends" get to meet all sorts of famous people, like celebrities and rock stars, and they get to basically do and say what they want. We don't treat our friends bad. After all, we are helping each other.
Alex Jones: Well, how are you proposing that I can help you, and you can help me?
The Machine: Just continue to do what your doing now. Don't change a thing, overall. You can keep talking about the New World Order, the FEMA concentration camps, the United Nations troops, the martial law program, the eugenics and genocide and things like gun rights and your views on god, abortion and the bible. That's all fine with us.
Alex Jones: Really! You are actually encouraging me to do this?
The Machine: Well, to a limit, of course.
Alex Jones: What limites are we talking about?. I dont know if I like the sound of that.
The Machine: Well, we are offering you success, Alex. We are offering you safety. We are offering you financial rewards that the ability to do what your heart and passion desires, with your life, and your activism.
Alex Jones: Well, what are these limits, then. Tell me now!
Continued......
The Machine:
1.) We don't want you to encourage the people to rise up through violence or the use of guns. We don't want you provoking people. You can warn them all you want, but don't be provocative or encouraging with dangerous action. We want you to sound the ararms like Patrick Henry, but don't be a George Washington.
2.) We don't want you to encourage the "sovereign" activists through encouraging them to use the court system to fight for their freedoms. We will put you in touch with best insider, Larry Becraft. He is considered a "patriot attorney" and you will refer all IRS and court freedom activists in his direction, where he will corral them all in an orderly fashion. Our man Larry helps people SOMETIMES...and sometimes he needs to make some CASH! He is our man, so work with him.
3.) We are going to pull off a MAJOR event in the near future. We will let you in on some of it and keep you informed of some of the "inside" details, and you will become very popular around this subject, for informing people of theings the government isn't telling them. Your job will be to help us steer the information inthe direction we want it to go in. You see, there is a need to guide certain movements, and you will help us do this, and nobody will ever be the wiser.
4.) We need you to keep a focus on the major issues of the John Birch Society, and we will tolerate a variance from these topics, but the frocus MUST remain on the same topics that the Birch people have been working on for years. The One-World Government, the CFR, the Trilateral Commission, and you can even bring secret societies into the mix. You can talk a little on topics like Zionism and the Catholic Church, but these are the areas you will stay away from, for the most part, and what little information you reveal will be tightly controlled and packaged for the masses.
The Machine: Do you understand your assignment?
Alex Jones: Well, I don't understand why you're doing this, really and what my boundaries are?
The Machine: Alex, we need people to oppose the globalists. We need a visual and audio presence who is challenging our objectives. It is only through this process, when the waters of Chaos are stirred with the ingredients of Order, that society progresses. We have done this for thousands of years. There has to be opposition, and people have to be intellectually stimulated. If we don't have a voice out there opposing us, it will be apparent to the people that we have killed all the opposition, because they will surely know something is wrong, and wonder to themselves, how come no one is speaking about it?
Alex Jones: I see now, I see. This way we both get to do what we want....as long as we each leave each other alone, in our private homes, so to speak, right?
The Machine: Exactly!
Alex Jones: Consider me a part of the team, but don't ever come up to me in public, or I will have to yell at you and make you look real bad, allright?
The Machine: Of course, Alex, my friend. And we will do the same, so please don't take it personally. This will be our little secret.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course, this was a hypothetical conversation that never really happened. Or did it? That's the million dollar question, isn't it?
I don't really know the answer to that, and I will not assume this is what happened, but I believe the reality is very, very close to this.
Why do I think this? Well, I spent some time investigating Alex Jones for myself. Being a conspiracy researcher myself, and having been investigating conspiracies at least as long as Alex Jones, I felt I could take a closer look at the situation and figure out what is behind "Prison Planet" if anything. Were they actually on "our" side (the people), or were they a part of the system (freemasons) in some unknown and unconnected way.
I spent several weeks in the prison planet forum posting thoughts, and writings, and links. I encountered a very strange phenomenon. Everyone was warlike and unfriendly, if you were not in agreement with their theories and findings of facts and conclusions concerning several particular conspiracies like 911 in particular.
Well, I have been in lots of forums on the internet and most of them are full of young kids who like to argue. This was different though. These little kids were intelligent grownups, who were acting like kids, but even more like "agents".
I have also been around lots of conspiracy researchers, and usually, people agree to disagree. I have never been around conspiracy researchers who insist they have the only answer and truth. Until I ran into the 911 Truth crowd. Well, Alex Jones is at the forefront of the 911 Truth movement. These people are fanatics like I have never seen or experienced before. Of course, there are things that we can all agree on, that are evident, like bombs in the buildings. Yes, people heard explosions, but there are lots of things that are unknown or unproven. Now, to insist you have the answer, is either "intentional propaganda", or just plain dumb arrogance. In this case, the insistence, combines with the consistant labeling of alternative theories is condemned as being "agent provacateurs", and/or "project mockingbird", actors.
The Machine:
1.) We don't want you to encourage the people to rise up through violence or the use of guns. We don't want you provoking people. You can warn them all you want, but don't be provocative or encouraging with dangerous action. We want you to sound the ararms like Patrick Henry, but don't be a George Washington.
2.) We don't want you to encourage the "sovereign" activists through encouraging them to use the court system to fight for their freedoms. We will put you in touch with best insider, Larry Becraft. He is considered a "patriot attorney" and you will refer all IRS and court freedom activists in his direction, where he will corral them all in an orderly fashion. Our man Larry helps people SOMETIMES...and sometimes he needs to make some CASH! He is our man, so work with him.
3.) We are going to pull off a MAJOR event in the near future. We will let you in on some of it and keep you informed of some of the "inside" details, and you will become very popular around this subject, for informing people of theings the government isn't telling them. Your job will be to help us steer the information inthe direction we want it to go in. You see, there is a need to guide certain movements, and you will help us do this, and nobody will ever be the wiser.
4.) We need you to keep a focus on the major issues of the John Birch Society, and we will tolerate a variance from these topics, but the frocus MUST remain on the same topics that the Birch people have been working on for years. The One-World Government, the CFR, the Trilateral Commission, and you can even bring secret societies into the mix. You can talk a little on topics like Zionism and the Catholic Church, but these are the areas you will stay away from, for the most part, and what little information you reveal will be tightly controlled and packaged for the masses.
The Machine: Do you understand your assignment?
Alex Jones: Well, I don't understand why you're doing this, really and what my boundaries are?
The Machine: Alex, we need people to oppose the globalists. We need a visual and audio presence who is challenging our objectives. It is only through this process, when the waters of Chaos are stirred with the ingredients of Order, that society progresses. We have done this for thousands of years. There has to be opposition, and people have to be intellectually stimulated. If we don't have a voice out there opposing us, it will be apparent to the people that we have killed all the opposition, because they will surely know something is wrong, and wonder to themselves, how come no one is speaking about it?
Alex Jones: I see now, I see. This way we both get to do what we want....as long as we each leave each other alone, in our private homes, so to speak, right?
The Machine: Exactly!
Alex Jones: Consider me a part of the team, but don't ever come up to me in public, or I will have to yell at you and make you look real bad, allright?
The Machine: Of course, Alex, my friend. And we will do the same, so please don't take it personally. This will be our little secret.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course, this was a hypothetical conversation that never really happened. Or did it? That's the million dollar question, isn't it?
I don't really know the answer to that, and I will not assume this is what happened, but I believe the reality is very, very close to this.
Why do I think this? Well, I spent some time investigating Alex Jones for myself. Being a conspiracy researcher myself, and having been investigating conspiracies at least as long as Alex Jones, I felt I could take a closer look at the situation and figure out what is behind "Prison Planet" if anything. Were they actually on "our" side (the people), or were they a part of the system (freemasons) in some unknown and unconnected way.
I spent several weeks in the prison planet forum posting thoughts, and writings, and links. I encountered a very strange phenomenon. Everyone was warlike and unfriendly, if you were not in agreement with their theories and findings of facts and conclusions concerning several particular conspiracies like 911 in particular.
Well, I have been in lots of forums on the internet and most of them are full of young kids who like to argue. This was different though. These little kids were intelligent grownups, who were acting like kids, but even more like "agents".
I have also been around lots of conspiracy researchers, and usually, people agree to disagree. I have never been around conspiracy researchers who insist they have the only answer and truth. Until I ran into the 911 Truth crowd. Well, Alex Jones is at the forefront of the 911 Truth movement. These people are fanatics like I have never seen or experienced before. Of course, there are things that we can all agree on, that are evident, like bombs in the buildings. Yes, people heard explosions, but there are lots of things that are unknown or unproven. Now, to insist you have the answer, is either "intentional propaganda", or just plain dumb arrogance. In this case, the insistence, combines with the consistant labeling of alternative theories is condemned as being "agent provacateurs", and/or "project mockingbird", actors.
reply to post by conxposer
Your time machine worked:
It took up some of my time to read your post more so than all the others I read today.
Your time machine worked:
It took up some of my time to read your post more so than all the others I read today.
Originally posted by fastwalker23
reply to post by conxposer
Your time machine worked:
It took up some of my time to read your post more so than all the others I read today.
WOW, i am not sure i agree with everything i am reading here but it sure is nice to have all these interesting posts that apply to the OP. I am losing time now too but at least it isnt to the crazy worthless posts it used to be over.
Conxposer I stopped taking you serious when you stated that no planes hit the buildings. What the hell? No wonder Alex shuns you, what do you expect
Alex has got to filter out disinformation like that.
reply to post by LeeHawt
The more I look at things about his lack of attention to zionism and the vatican, the more I am getting curious.
I don't know. If it hadn't been for a lot of things he's talked about, I wouldn't know about them.
Ron Paul war-room
I'm so tired of LIES!
The more I look at things about his lack of attention to zionism and the vatican, the more I am getting curious.
I don't know. If it hadn't been for a lot of things he's talked about, I wouldn't know about them.
Ron Paul war-room
I'm so tired of LIES!
the more i am here, the more i look and read, the more curious i am about what happend at trinidad as well as why he is so secretive about the owners
of his station and his ties to them. most info on the internet about him comes from biased, unbacked sources; both pro and con. i really appreciate
all the insightful feedback. i still dont know how much of his word to take but at least im getting some interesting thoughts on it here. thanks.
[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]
[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]
Originally posted by re22666
the more i am here, the more i look and read, the more curious i am about what happend at trinidad
[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]
Tell us what YOU think happened at Trinidad?
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