Obama and the Constitution

While I believe in the responsibilities of society to care for it's members. The fact is that the constitution did not give the Federal Government the power to impose their will about that subject, and many others upon the people.


In fact had it not been for the horrors inflicted upon what remained of this nation by Abraham Lincoln. It would be a responsibility of state and local government, not Federal to be modern. As it is states are forced to homogenize, in this way the true freedom to have diversity in America has been savagely put to an untimely death.

The price is too high. If the Federal Government did not have it's filthy hands so deeply in everyone's pockets, we would not have such poverty as we see today. It never existed before this Federalist model ran amuck.

You will please note that taxes only become more and more pervasive. It is an inevitability that one day the government will take everything and give us what it sees fit to in return. There is a name for that. But I would bet that all traces of the word become taboo, before we reach that point, should we survive so long.

reply to post by redled


Christian Constitution? Correct me if i am wrong, but the Constitution never once mentioned the words Christianity Christian or Christ. Truth to be told most of the influential founding fathers where against organized religion, and we know this to be true. Some also were deists; like Jefferson Franklin Ethan Allen.
"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquirer into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills." Thomas Jefferson.

Love and Light

reply to post by Kanati


So what is Christian about your country (as opposed to people merely residing in it) other than the fact that you pronounce 'God Blesss America,' all over the shop?

Caring for Iraqi's?

First of all Iraq wasn't even part of the original plan to go war, Afghanistan and Baghdad were responsible for 9/11 - but Bush decided to give the American army the permission to go into Iran and Iraq (since its on the way to Baghdad) and kill innocents there - his reason for this was because the president had proof of WMD's in Iraq - where are they mr.president? The true reason is that the U.S pay the likes of iraq $100 million dollars A YEAR, for their oil! Then they wonder why terrorists are able to attack America? Erm, maybe because you fund the very weapons that kill our brave troops? What we are dealing with here is the arrogance of George W Bush who will not admit that his plan was stupid and he has lost. He has lost the (fake) Global War on Terror, he has lost Afghanistan and he has lost and does not control Iraq. Like the murderous thug he is, the burglar controls Iraq at gunpoint, furthermore Al'Quadia now pose an even bigger threat now than they did before the war.

Seriously you Americans, whoever is ignorant enough to VOTE FOR McCAIN I will blame all of you individually for the entire worlds decline, McCain/Bush (what's the difference?) will just keep drilling away more oil, prices will keep going up, The U.S will be in even more debt to China, greenhouse gasses will be at an all time peak, therefor more natural disasters will mean more hurricanes, more earthquakes, more tsunami's, more chances of more frequent and larger terrorist attacks - if you vote John McCain, you are destroying the earth and mankind for what it once was, and we will enter a new dark era, a new age, that quite frankly I'm too scared to even begin discussing.

Question: “What would or should we do if, in the post-June 30th period, a so-called sovereign Iraqi government asks us to leave?”

McCain’s Answer: “Well, if that scenario evolves than I think it’s obvious that we would have to leave because — if it was an elected government of Iraq, and we’ve been asked to leave other places in the world"......"but I don’t see how we could stay when our whole emphasis and policy has been based on turning the Iraqi government over to the Iraqi people.”

Now that iraq are indisputably asking British and American troops to leave, guess what? Bush doesn't want to leave! U.S. officials had no immediate comment on al-Rubaie's statement. Even when the prime minister asks you to leave, crime is at an all time low in Iraq (which by the way, Bush said they would leave when crime is down, then when it was down, he said that we had to stay there to make sure it didn't go up) - and now we are still there. Bush/McCain just keep looking and making reasons to stay there, it must end now.

"If George Bush and John McCain want to have a debate about protecting the United States of America, that is a debate that I'm happy to have any time, any place, and that is a debate I will win because George Bush and John McCain have a lot to answer for." - Barack Obama

"We can continue to slice and dice this country, or this time, we can build on the movement we started in this campaign, a movement that's united Democrats, independents, Republicans, young, old, rich, poor, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, gay, straight. Because one thing I know, from traveling 46 states this campaign season, is that we are not as divided as our politics suggest." - Barack Obama

When it comes to the war in Iraq, the time for promises and assurances, for waiting and patience is over. Too many lives have been lost and too many billions have been spent for us to trust the President on another tried-and-failed policy, opposed by generals and experts, opposed by Democrats and Republicans, opposed by Americans and even the Iraqis themselves. It is time to change our policy. It is time to give Iraqis their country back, and it is time to refocus America's effort on the wider struggle against terror yet to be won. - Obama

reply to post by slackerwire

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Would it not fall under "promote the general welfare"??? As in well being of the people?

I understand some people are genuinely worthless......but,...

Why is it that you are so repulsed at people needing help? Do you cry every time we provide humanitarian assistance around the country, or the world?
Sounds awful selfish to me.

I read threads like this and it makes me want to cry. And then move out of the US. I just can't comprehend how so many people can fail to even begin to understand the concepts of personal freedom and personal responsibility that were the basis of this country, and which made this country great. I understand where they learn the feces they spout, of our obligation to be slaves to those "less fortunate." The education system is rife with such corruption. But...I guess the idea is so alien to me that I can't grasp how someone would ever want to accept and support such ideals. People talk of the elite trying to make people slaves...seems they don't have to, they have millions of willing slaves already. It quite literally makes me sick.

Originally posted by Grafilthy
reply to post by slackerwire

 

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Would it not fall under "promote the general welfare"??? As in well being of the people?

I understand some people are genuinely worthless......but,...

Why is it that you are so repulsed at people needing help? Do you cry every time we provide humanitarian assistance around the country, or the world?
Sounds awful selfish to me.

key words being "general welfare." it does not say "to promote the individual welfare."

welfare:

a. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being.
b. Prosperity.



if individuals are able to work and maintain what is theirs and take personal responsibility than the general welfare of the united states is one of good fortune and properity.

but when you have the collective working their tails off to support individuals who make excuses for their "lot" in life, you lose the general welfare of the country. the ppl that are working their arses off start slipping bc they can't maintain what they are working toward and the lazy bums still aren't getting what they want from society.

where there is no personal responsibility there is no pride. this country has lost what once made it a proud country.

Originally posted by Kanati
reply to post by redled

 

Christian Constitution? Correct me if i am wrong, but the Constitution never once mentioned the words Christianity Christian or Christ.

Love and Light

right on!! most believed in a god, but most did not believe, as you stated, in organized religion. the reason being is that organized religion supports socialistic views.

i bet most don't even realize that the pledge of allegiance was brought about in the late 1800's by a baptist preacher who wanted to see this country turned into a socialist country.

so, sue me if i don't participate in pledging my allegiance to an idol, aka flag. i don't support socialist nationalism. patriotism has reached an all time extreme that has an underlying motto of "the individual is made up of the nation" rather than "the nation is made up of individuals."

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by Kanati
reply to post by redled

 

Christian Constitution? Correct me if i am wrong, but the Constitution never once mentioned the words Christianity Christian or Christ.

Love and Light

right on!! most believed in a god, but most did not believe, as you stated, in organized religion. the reason being is that organized religion supports socialistic views.

Yeeeaaahhh, most organised relgion believes in helping the other. As for socialistic, America declared independence 50 years before 'socialism' was even coined as a concept. Maybe someone had an insight.......

reply to post by redled


I don't mean this as in insult, just an observation...but you must be either in high school or college. The reason I say that is because you don't seem to have any grasp on how things really work. Idealistic, utopic dreams are all well and good when you're young...but once you know how the world works, you see that socialism and communism just rob those who make something of their lives and steals away not just money, but pride, and dreams. I, as with any free man, will do whatever is necessary to defend myself from those concepts. Two hundred years has changed nothing for free men. As it was, it will always be, "give me liberty or give me death." There is no quarter in the war against those who seek to rob us of our worth.

I genuinely appreciate the mostly intelligent debate, but have to kind of ask why Obama was singled out here. Our current REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION not only created a huge new office for SOCIAL SERVICES, but also COMPLETELY IGNORED the premise of SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! Our tax dollars delivered to the Christian right.

From Wikipedia
The White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (OFBCI) is a department under the Office of the President of the United States that was established by President George W. Bush through executive order[1] on January 29, 2001, and which represents one of the key domestic policies of Bush's campaign promise of "compassionate conservatism." The initiative seeks to strengthen faith-based and community organizations and expand their capacity to provide federally-funded social services, with the idea being that these groups are well-situated to meet the needs of local individuals.

This is what Jimmy Carter had to say about it.
"Individual churches and religious seminaries and other strictly religious organizations have their own lobbyists now in Washington to make sure they get their share of taxpayers' funds. And, as you know, the policy from the White House has been to allocate funds to religious institutions, even those that channel those funds exclusively to their own particular group of believers in a particular religion. Those things in my opinion are quite disturbing," Carter said. "As a traditional Baptist, I've always believed in separation of church and state and honored that premise when I was president, and so have all other presidents, I might say, except this one.
"

reply to post by maybereal11

Obama is singled out because Bush is on the way out, while Obama is looking to take his place, and Obama's policies make Bush look like Thomas Jefferson. We can whine about the past, or we can try to change the future. Bush is the past...I hope to god that, somehow, neither of the presumptive candidates is the future. However, since one of them is likely to be, it's best to know what we're up against so we can plan to counteract all things that violate the constitution as best as we can.

Oh, and if you were trying to equate constitutionalists with the religious right, you're a million miles off base. The religious right tends to be as far from the constitution as the socialist left. That's how we've come to be where we are today.

reply to post by mental modulator


Wow, thats really touching. I'm sure someone with more compassion wouldn't ask this question, but what does your little story there have to do with this thread?

No doubt it's a crappy situation, but it has nothing to do with me, or any other taxpayer for that matter.

Originally posted by Grafilthy
reply to post by slackerwire

 

Preamble

Would it not fall under "promote the general welfare"??? As in well being of the people?



Why is it that you are so repulsed at people needing help? Do you cry every time we provide humanitarian assistance around the country, or the world?
Sounds awful selfish to me.

Allow me to correct your mistakes:

a) You cited the Preamble to the Constitution. That doesn't convey any powers. The general welfare clause you mentioned would be from Article 1 Section 8.

b) General does not mean individual.

c) DO I cry everytime I hear about "humanitarian assistance? Absolutely not. I am angered to see our tax dollars shipped overseas in yet another unconstitutional waste of our money .

D) As posted in quite a few other threads, I will once again post the words from people who actually WROTE and signed the Constitution.

-"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but
an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions." - James Madison, 1792

- "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798

- I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison criticizing an attempt to grant public monies for charitable means, 1794

and now words from another President:

- "I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit." - President Grover Cleveland, 1887

Ya satisfied?

I have a question for the OP

While you see the supports of the government as unconstitutional, do you also see the constraints of the government as equally unconstitutional?

All the constraints on drugs, sex, morality, dangerous activities, public property, and the list goes on forever. You are upset that your money is used to help others but are you also upset that our behavior is controlled and monitored so unconstitutionally?

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Jezus]

reply to post by Jezus


Hell yes. I am completely against unconstitutional laws, such as :

gun control, the pathetic "war on drugs", laws against prostitution, etc etc etc.

The government has absolutely no power to dictate what people may or may not do with their own bodies.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by mental modulator]

oh my god this is one of the best threads ive read in a long time but i know for a fact that obama will be elected and will be shot in the head and live!!! for he is the Anti-christ and the end is near

I have a question for the OP.

What makes Obama worse than McCain? I see them as equally terrible.

It's not like we can count on modern Republicans being fiscally conservative - that breed of Republicans died off a long time ago, it seems.

So, who should we give handouts to - the Blue guys say we should give them to these people who cling to the underbelly of the welfare system like remora on the belly of a soon-to-be-dead shark. The Red guys say we should give the handouts to the corporate stooges and revolving door yes-men.

Which is better, honestly?

I will say this...

At least giving money to the welfare leeches insures that convenience stores, liquor stores, and Walmarts will not go out of business. Giving money to the fat cats only insures one thing - even more cash flying out of the country and into foreign accounts.

I guess I have to choose the leeches, even though both choices are repugnant to me...

I remember reading your post

"life in the US is a joke"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is funny the amount of good will common strangers sent to you and yours. However I doubt that you would genuinely care if someone else posted the same thing- In fact you would probably insult them or remind them they are all alone.

Well now your all alone, you will get to sit there and hate OBAMAS guts as he creates tax payer financed health care, you will have to cry for all your favorite business men as they will be FORCED to pay a higher minimum wage... You will be tasked with patrolling the boarder on your own as more and more Mexicans build nest under your house...
Schools will become increasingly bilingual... Your tax money will be given to lazy africans... And American companies will be taxed twice over....

And the irony will is that Obama will be potus because the public will go to the extreme of your extreme... We have been living in a country of f#$% your neighbor for eight years-open your eyes. The right has had a chance and has done its magic -- Americans can't stand the sociopathy any more and you are not helping!

The rich are richer, the prisons are fuller, the poor are poorer, the military is six times better financed, we have air marshals, wire taps, brand new branches of government,
ten secret military bases, enhanced interrogation, guns are alive and well, low taxes on the rich, shrinking middle class, $4.25 min wage, $.99 hamburgers, aids is thinning out the population, the war on drugs is still going, companies can still charge as much as they want for gas, 300 + cable channels, thousands of star bucks, wal mart is not forced to buy health insurance for their employees, CEOS make tens of millions a year, hospitals can escort money free patients to skid-row, you can still shoot a man if he enters your house, drug companies make billions and give half of it to a hundred people, I am to proud to let you pay for my problems and the rich simply buy political influence...

What more do you want? if you want a nation of ten thousand billionaires and 339,990,000 indentured citizens you'll get it, be patient.

I mean if we go more to the right you guys can re introduce slavery " the freedom workers movement ", organ debt repayment centers, national religion...It won't be your problem then...

Obama isn't going to stop any of this anyhow
- you are way right and you'll get it all...
technology will surpass the ability to change anything.
You might just might have to wait a little longer.



[edit on 24-7-2008 by mental modulator]