Understand the relationship between 2d and 3d and you can apply the same type of relationship to 3d and 4d and get a firm concept of 4d.

Take 2d conceptualized as an infinite plane with no actual height/thickness. got it? ok, now take 3d to be something like a cube, but with all sides extending to infinity? kinda messed up idea but hopefully you get the point. 3d is the context in which 2d is embedded. Imagine that you insert a 2d reality into a 3d reality, you basically are getting a "slice" or "sliver" of that 3d reality. Loosely it's like a magician slicing a person lying in a coffin into pieces with those big square 'blades?'. Another way to think of it is that any 2d reality is a single point along the 3rd or Z axis of a 3d reality. If somehow, you could have all of the infinite 2d realities possible and stack them in some type of ordered progression, you would have a 3d reality.
ya with me?
now, take that relationship and apply it to 3d and 4d. i.e. First, imagine a horizontal piece of paper (as if it were lying on a desk, but no desk). imagine it's sides/edges extend into infinity (like a REALLY big piece of paper, on a REALLY big desk, but no desk.) This is a 2d reality/universe. Our piece of paper is 'the present moment' to the 2d beings living on it. Moving the paper up and down is basically sending their reality forward and backward in time (in 2d reality time). Extending that relationship, what you get is our present/now is akin to a single point on the "4th dimension axis". As a 2d reality is just a single "slice" of a 3d reality, our 3d reality is just a slice of a 4d reality. Thus, if you could somehow have the infinite arrangements of 3d reality, and "stack" them all up, you would have a 4d reality. i.e. if you had all the moments of time to somehow occur simultaneously, you would have a 4d reality. One more way: a 4d reality is everything happening all at once. everything happening simultaneously. A 4d being can see any moment in time in a 3d universe at will/by simply 'looking' at it. (assuming some 4d orientation issues, but for simplicity's sake...). The infinity into the past and future AS A WHOLE is the 4th dimension
So, there you have it. Make any sense to anyone?

Oh yeah, and for the record, light is actually a/the 2d universe, the predecessor of/to 3d matter.
And for those who really like to twist their brain: Light is dead people.

[edit on 7/22/2008 by verbal kint]

makes perfect sense....

I also like to look at the fourth dimension as timespace.

The 3 dimensional arena is space time. Timespace is its exact opposite. In timespace you could travel through time like you could walk to the store and get a pack of cigarettes and an ice cold brew...

wonder what the 9th dimension is like

You explained something pretty well for something that can't be perceived and fully understood by a 3-D being. Now can you explain dimensions 5 through 11?? if there are even 11 dimensions that is.


Would be cool to live in the 4th dimension, eh?




[edit on 22-7-2008 by Monsterenergy791]

Originally posted by Monsterenergy791
You explained something pretty well for something that can't be perceived and fully understood by a 3-D being. Now can you explain dimensions 5 through 11?? if there even 11 dimensions that is.


Would be cool to live in the 4th dimension, eh?

who said anything about being a 3-d being? alter your perception, change your reality. perhaps that is a misconception. Perhaps humans are supposed to be able to perceive higher dimensions. Perhaps that is the point of life, to figure out how to navigate the higher dimensions.
Its funny, if you claim you can access other dimensions, you are deemed insane, schizophrenic if your imaginary realms are coherent to you, which they should be if they are real. The real proof lay in what can one do in the other realms that can affect the accepted realms. Its all relative to perspective, but then again, what is not.

Thanks for the pats on the back. As for gettin our brains around even more dimensions... maybe? Check this out...

There are two 'types' of souls - those headed up the dimensional ladder and those coming down. When you (your being, soul, whatever...) emerges from the dimensional singularity (either 0d or -1d) you are traveling up the dimensional ladder, ever increasing your dimensional awareness, seeking a broader and broader viewpoint of reality. Till you hit 13d. It is at that point that one becomes certain that while complexity or degree of dimension may continue to expand, no new dimensional concepts were to be had beyond 11, only derivatives (even at the prime #s). In fact, even 11d is a derived dimension (though with the uncommon trait of being a dimension of origin - like 1d). However, 11d has the unique quality of being the first dimension to simultaneously be an origin as well as being the context for a complete set of lower dimensions . To be certain (nothing is truly known till experienced), consciousness still moves to experience 13d, and at that point confirms it's ultimate ability to reach a complete understanding of existence (via the experiences of it's manifested souls). And so the journey back to unity commences.

While active within a particular dimension, one does not perceive/remember the previous realities experienced. e.g. a returning soul here in 3d is not conscious of it's journey from 0 to 13d and now back as far as 3d. When in dimension, not only does the soul lose it's history, but it's destination is obscured as well. Only as a soul's final experiences within a dimension are being realized does the soul begin to reawaken to the existence of it's greater journey. I'm not entirely clear on this exact process as I haven't begun to reassimilate any past memories, and have just begun to see where I'm headed.

Interestingly enough though I have received some of the processes involved in moving from 3d to 2d. As I've said before, 2d is light. We perceive the two dimensions as light being both a particle and a wave. How do we enter light? Well, dying for one usually works well (if your "experience assignment" is complete.) Beyond that, the 2d reality must be created. Just as we did moving from 5d/4d to 3d. We are created in our own image. This is why we have 5 digits on each hand, 5 toes, 5 extremities, 5 senses. We are merely 3d vessels created by our 5d manifestations of ourselves (which in turn we had created from 7d). o.k., so how do we make an entire 2d universe/existence? We've already done it. Well at least the fundamentals.

The 2d universe we are creating is not entirely unlike the 'Matrix' concept. Our first successful creations can be found in online gaming. Take a game like SOCOM on the PS2 (the one i'm most familiar with). The controller used can be thought of as being a very primitive version of the pods people were kept in, in the Matrix. Essentially Im talking about multi-player virtual reality. Consider our heavy emphasis on vision in real 3d life. This is related to the fact that 2d is light, and also to why our primary source of input from the primitive 2d universes we've created is visual - your tv or monitor. And look at the universes we're creating: Created in our own image. As interface sophistication increases, the nature of what we're creating will become obvious. Especially once we can be place into "a game" without memory of the outside world. Either by being born almost directly into an interface device or with some type of mind manipulation. Once that is achieved, our 3d persons, well, not so much our persons, but our SOULS we begin exploring this 2d environment we're in. Over time, establishing laws of physics within the paradigm of 'the game', social norms, and generally discovering the nature of what we would be perceiving as 'reality'. The neat part is that if a person did become aware of their 3d self and did not disconnect from 'the game' by manipulation of the host computers or whatnot, that person in the 2d reality could perform miracles, could he not??? small edits of the code here in 3d land could have incredible effects in 2d land...

As a final thought, now consider, 2d is fully populated, it's denizens are not aware of 3d, nor their unconscious existence there sleeping, but harboring the powers of GOD. So life progresses and the 2d people learn to manipulate their environment etc. Ultimately in their 2d reality, they will create the equivalent of tv, gaming consoles, computers, internet, etc. The thing is though, the primary output of those devices will be in 1d - and in someway be observable by these 2d people - ourselves... Ultimately, 2d/us will learn to enter into a 1d world via their version of virtual reality if you will. Once again creating a universe and beings most likely in their own image... From there, only 1 left to go!!!

Boy, this post sure got away from me! Yikes!

ps- earlier this evening, I received a whole new perspective on dimensions that may change the preceding theory. Then again, it may not. I'll try to get to it later tonite. I'm pooped.
Love,
-v

Originally posted by iiinvision
makes perfect sense....

I also like to look at the fourth dimension as timespace.

The 3 dimensional arena is space time. Timespace is its exact opposite. In timespace you could travel through time like you could walk to the store and get a pack of cigarettes and an ice cold brew...

wonder what the 9th dimension is like

If travel in timespace was possible, wouldn't that mean not only time travel in the linear 1d (backward forwards) sense we think of but also (up down) 2d and (left right!?) 3d, meaning all possible time lines or rather realitys?

How would one navigate and perceive such a state do you think?

Right, there are two tricks.

One. Relax, and see a number ladder go up into the dark. Then float in a sea above it. That is (the first level of) infinity.

Two. You can use colours as variables. 3-D is the space we visualise, we can fill it with funky stuff.

Hope those are of use.

Originally posted by Monsterenergy791
You explained something pretty well for something that can't be perceived and fully understood by a 3-D being.

I think the only way it is explainable is simply because we live in the "4th Dimension", i.e. timespace. In the words, the only way we comprehend time is by living within it, as adrenochrome suggested by recommendation.

To move freely through it, by which I mean without interference by it, we need to "transcend" it. For example, to move through space and time without being affected by it, we would effectively need to travel in the "5th Dimension", something we can't perceive. Of course the inherent problem is understanding something without being able to perceive it. The key, I think, is that dimensions are perceived only through the forces that create them. For example, it is true that gravity has a direct relationship to all four known dimensions as we perceive them.

So, it strikes me that understanding dimensions can only come through knowing the forces that create them.

Wow reading your 2nd long post made my eyes go cross lol. seriously though great thread.

I was wondering if anyone could lead me to some "beginner" info. I have heard of this briefly before but I would like to go farther into it now. A lot of the concepts that were mentioned are pretty new to me and a little hard to grasp at the moment. I will check out some of the links later on.


Also to the person that mentioned Flatland. I have had that book in a footlocker for almost 10 years now, but have never read it. I just thought it was kinda cool you mentioned it. I'll have to go and read it for sure now.