US general warns Russia on nuclear bombers in Cuba

Ahh i see this topic has turned into flame war, and attracted alot of big names and patriots . I havent posted for a year now but could not resist to this one Ok back to the topic . The way i see it , it not just a couple defensive missiles at our door steps, who says that they will not convert them into offensive. Moreover no country would like to be circled with missiles defensive or offensive ! both have a major role. We let US put 10 defense missiles today they will put another 100 tomorrow wich will mean Russian striking ability will go down , and there goes the balance ! the US will be able to dictate every bs they want without russia able to respond or apply pressure. After all balance is everything.

PS: Just noticed my ATS points are 666 .

[edit on 26-7-2008 by Russian Boy]

Russia has been complaining for some time now about our missile "defense" systems that are going into some of the "stans" to "defend them from attacks by terrorists". Not too many terrorists are using missiles to attack countries at this time to my knowledge.
If I were the head of Russia I too would be exploring ways to give the US a kick in the ass. This is certainly one way.
Venezuela and Russia are nominal enemies to us and are using any tools they have to give us a tweak. This should not be a surprise.
We should have expected no less. We place "weapons systems" on their continent in the hands of their enemies and should expect exactly the same thing to happen to us on "our" continent.

This is a very dangerous game of chess.

reply to post by Russian Boy


I hope you know these hosted countries as paying for this shield and not the US.Don't you think we would want to put some in Turkey and other countries if thats the case?

reply to post by alienstar

There you go you just answered the big question here
"The locations in the Czech republic and Poland are not the best for intercepting hypothetical Iranian or North Korean missiles, but happen to be very convenient for downing any missiles Russia might launch against America from its territory". Thats why the the missiles are not in turkey. And besides no country is that stupid to launch a missile attack and be destroyed. The USA uses its "black propaganda" to scare its people.

Actually Us is paying for the missiles "In his 2008 FY Budget proposal, Bush asked Congress to approve the allocation of $310 million for the deployment of U.S. missile defenses in Europe, but lawmakers cut the amount by 27% to $225 million."


[edit on 27-7-2008 by Russian Boy]

It does not matter who pays for them.
What is important is that they are there.
Missiles are just a piece of hardware. It is the software programming that determines their use. It may be difficult but is definately doable.

If our relations with Venezuela, etc. were better this would not necessarily be a problem.

We exert and extend our influence how, when and where we can. Russia has always done the same. We should expect no less and not get all crazazy about it when it happens.

FYI- Russia will not station bombers in Cuba. The USA has already made clear the consequences of such an act. What has happened is Russian bomber crews visited Cuba, a small refueling base WITH NO CAPABILITY TO HANDLE WEAPONS has been considered and thats it. Elements withitn the Russian government have exaggerated this in the media in order to get Washingtons attention with regard to BMD bases in Europe which it considers a threat. Russia knows Cuba is an issue the USA is really sensitive about so it is a sure way to bring attention to an issue they feel we are blowing off. Take a look at a map of Cuba. Russia is not likely to station nuclear bombers there.

a. too vulnerable

b. against US/Cuban efforts to reconcile

c. politically unacceptable for the US

At best Russia has a few dozen bombers and they would be immediately destroyed in any conflict. Russia is would be spending a lot of effort for very little gain. If they are going to do something this rash, I would look at places like Georgia an areas along their boarder where they could actually get something out of it besides shot down strategic assets.

-DA

reply to post by alienstar


So America is the only country that can have deterrent capabilities against first strikes?

Russia is not allowed that luxury?
Quit acting like a self-appointed military analyst and be rational.

Sometimes the best defence is a good OFFENCE.

A missile shield, a bomber squadron... what's the difference?

Both of the two responses cripple a nation's chance to successfully launch a first strike.

The Missile Shield knocks out ICBM's in transit, the bomber patrols take out silos/bases where the US nukes originated from.

It's the same thing in principle. Please see that, because about 20 different people have told you this and you just ignored them.

My personal opinion, if the US wants to start up a bit of nostalgic, Cold War tensions then Russia knows full well how to play at that game.

This was a horrible move to begin with... the European ballistic missile shield is just one more way of saying to the East "You know what, we still don't trust you."

If you blatantly display your lack faith in a so called "friend" you best believe their going to respond in kind.
It's all about posturing. Russia's just returning the favour.

This just pushed the US and Russia about another mile apart just when they were seeming to edge a bit closer.

This is just wishful thinking on General Norton Schwartz part.

Hoping for a return to the good ole days of big military conflicts when you could see the nukes comming at you, 'eh general?

There was just an article recently about missle silo crews falling asleep holding nuclear ICBM launch codes in thier hands.

www.cnn.com...

Nice try but the next nuke will go off without warning.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by In nothing we trust]

Yeah!! war!! they have the right we have the right!! war!! effin kill everyone!! war!!! they are better than us we are better then them!! war!! killem all!!!

and everyone in between.

reply to post by Fathom


If your referring to me I wasn't advocating war, I'm however advocating RATIONAL friggin' thinking.

Which a lot of people seem to shut off as soon as anything besides the United States is concerned.

The US wants to turn the clock back here because they realise nobody is buying the "War on Terror"/Islamic Bogeyman propaganda.
That lemon has rotted to it's core and a lot of people are starting to realise it was sour bullsh*t.

So who else has the kind of power, global influence and arsenal of weapons of mass destruction to instil mass panic and confusion into the public?

The same people whom the US used as the pin-up boy for Evil prior to 1991, the Russians.

Missile shields, US bases dotting the Russian border, making friends with Russia's enemies, etc...

It's all a big game of stepping on toes. They WANT the Russians to start flying bomber patrols, they want them to develop more ICBM's and crank out the tanks...

Perfect! Oooh the big bad aggressive Russians, their still Communists at heart, Putin's a nutjob, I knew they couldn't be trusted all along and blah, blah and so forth...

See the BIG picture?

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

See the BIG picture?

Nuke Iran already will ya?



[edit on 27-7-2008 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by alienstar
I hope people don't forget we simply offered to host this shield.We didn't jam it down anyones throat.Poland wanted it.......as did the other.What we get out of it?Blah stupid military responses like this from Russia.Whats the point of having this when its suppose to be the very thing to stop a nuclear warhead...when its the very samething that could lead to one being sent???None of this makes sense.........Sorry its not Russia just exercising its military might either.

The Czech people are something like 70% against hosting the shield.

In Poland it's like 50%.

In neither country, however, will a referendum be held as the puppet governments we have there are more than happy to go against the will of their people.

In my opinion, this will create anti-Americanism in both of these countries in the future.

For now, at least, lets not pretend that these countries are all for this.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Conventional warheads on abm's is NOT bombers with nuclear capabilities.They wouldn't stick those in Cuba unless they were nuclear.That would open up a new arms race or even missile crisis.You stick nuclear devices in Cuba we bring back short ranged icbm's to NATO hosted countries.

reply to post by db330


Sorry i should have put it in better terms.The government of those hosted countries.I think we are opposed to it more here in America then elsewhere.

i think it's funny how some people think you need to be on top of a target to drop a bomb.

also, russia's probably going to enhance its cooperation with cuba (including drilling for oil and gas off florida), but won't station blackjacks or bears there. maybe just a listening post. russian tourists are overflowing turkey, greece, and egypt - maybe some of them can also go to cuba to shore up that country's economy.

this will help consolidate russia's position in latin america.

i think that china and russia coordinate their policies, so expect more of china, too. investments and other good stuff.

monroe doctrine officially dead.

Let me sum up my feelings on this matter:

www.breitbart.com...

The Russians are going to start staging Blackjack and Bear Bombers out of Cuba.

The severity of this issue is not easily seen.

The reason is the planes are just a delivery truck for what they carry.

That still does not speak to the real issue.

People hear bomber and think it has to fly over the land it is going to bomb.

The problem is these planes "ONLY" carry cruise missiles now with a
a range possibly as far as 5,000 kilometers, or about 3,500 miles.

They could be flying around south of Cuba, launch and still hit anywhere
in the US except the most northern states.

Also most people think, ahhh its a cruise missile and we can shoot it down.

The problem with that is during the war with Serbia they shot down an F-117
stealth fighter and reverse engineered the technology.

It is now part of their advanced cruise missiles that carry 200 Kilo-ton nukes.

So you have a Stealth Cruise Missile on a delivery truck somewhere near cuba,
and the Russians are upset about our missile shield, and are willing to
replay the Cuban Missile Crisis scenario to make their point.

The baseline for the cruise missile is the KH-55 from the 1980's.

en.wikipedia.org...

It has been upgrade since then, but we do not fully know for sure its abilities.

That upgraded critter is now officially known as the KH-102

www.globalsecurity.org...

The fact that is has Stealth abilities is now PUBLIC knowledge
in the above article, in paragraph # 5.

Hints at a newer and even better Stealth Cruise Missile the KH-555
are mentioned as well.

So when people laugh about the old planes, think of them as an old
truck delivering a high tech package.

This may be a second Cuban Missile crisis,
but the person in the Whitehouse is not JFK.

Like the 60's nothing may happen, or some religious ppl may
think it is time for revelations to take place.

Some articles showing the Russians level of anger can be found here:

Top Brass Defends Russia's Right to Preemptive Strike:

www.mnweekly.ru...

Iran says it intercepted terrorist attack on Russian consulate:

en.rian.ru...

Russia takes measures to protect its facilities and citizens in Iran:

en.rian.ru...

Putin Calls U.S. ..Frightening Monster,' Urges French Solidarity:

www.bloomberg.com...

Vladimir Putin assassination attempt 'foiled'

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Just another heads up here.

My bug out bag is packed, and my Evac locale to the west is prepped.

Take care,
Ex_MislTech

reply to post by In nothing we trust


Exactly my point.

The whole game with Iran, drawing the Russians into the conflict, their nicely setting up the dominoes and just waiting for Putin and the hard-liners to finally snap and go "You know what? These guys have been on our back for years now, it's time to do something" and that something will be drastic and then the US will milk that cow like no tomorrow as an excuse for war.

Tried and true formula.
A la Saddam:
- Give him the WMD's to wipe out your enemy (Iran).
- Then when he's no longer useful, take him out, using the WMD's you gave him as a pretext for war.
- Go in, pacify, mop up everything, reap some nice Oil revenue.

Originally posted by crusadors
Bombers in Cuba???? Like we wouldnt shoot them down before they got off the airstip! If we have the technology to shoot down orbiting satellites from the sea, we can hit an antiquated bomber 30 miles away.

Anyways, what would you expect. I do not blame Russia, if they didnt talk about it they would lose credibility in the world.

Truth is, America and Russia do not have beef with each other. This is just a powerplay, Russia does not want the world to think they are weak. Russia is a proud country.

You are missing the point:


www.breitbart.com...

The Russians are going to start staging Blackjack and Bear Bombers out of Cuba.

The severity of this issue is not easily seen.

The reason is the planes are just a delivery truck for what they carry.

That still does not speak to the real issue.

People hear bomber and think it has to fly over the land it is going to bomb.

The problem is these planes "ONLY" carry cruise missiles now with a
a range possibly as far as 5,000 kilometers, or about 3,500 miles.

They could be flying around south of Cuba, launch and still hit anywhere
in the US except the most northern states.

Also most people think, ahhh its a cruise missile and we can shoot it down.

The problem with that is during the war with Serbia they shot down an F-117
stealth fighter and reverse engineered the technology.

It is now part of their advanced cruise missiles that carry 200 Kilo-ton nukes.

So you have a Stealth Cruise Missile on a delivery truck somewhere near cuba,
and the Russians are upset about our missile shield, and are willing to
replay the Cuban Missile Crisis scenario to make their point.

The baseline for the cruise missile is the KH-55 from the 1980's.

en.wikipedia.org...

It has been upgrade since then, but we do not fully know for sure its abilities.

That upgraded critter is now officially known as the KH-102

www.globalsecurity.org...

The fact that is has Stealth abilities is now PUBLIC knowledge
in the above article, in paragraph # 5.

Hints at a newer and even better Stealth Cruise Missile the KH-555
are mentioned as well.

So when people laugh about the old planes, think of them as an old
truck delivering a high tech package.

This may be a second Cuban Missile crisis,
but the person in the Whitehouse is not JFK.

Like the 60's nothing may happen, or some religious ppl may
think it is time for revelations to take place.

Some articles showing the Russians level of anger can be found here:

Top Brass Defends Russia's Right to Preemptive Strike:

www.mnweekly.ru...

Iran says it intercepted terrorist attack on Russian consulate:

en.rian.ru...

Russia takes measures to protect its facilities and citizens in Iran:

en.rian.ru...

Putin Calls U.S. ..Frightening Monster,' Urges French Solidarity:

www.bloomberg.com...

Vladimir Putin assassination attempt 'foiled'

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Just another heads up here.

My bug out bag is packed, and my Evac locale to the west is prepped.

Take care,
Ex_MislTech

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


Why do you keep posting this? You have posted this at least 5/6 times that I know of throughout this website.

Mods, please look into this?

Originally posted by DarthAmerica
What has happened is Russian bomber crews visited Cuba, a small refueling base WITH NO CAPABILITY TO HANDLE WEAPONS has been considered and thats it. Russia knows Cuba is an issue the USA is really sensitive about so it is a sure way to bring attention to an issue they feel we are blowing off. Take a look at a map of Cuba. Russia is not likely to station nuclear bombers there.

a. too vulnerable
b. against US/Cuban efforts to reconcile
c. politically unacceptable for the US

At best Russia has a few dozen bombers and they would be immediately destroyed in any conflict.

-DA

This is the last know intelligence estimate of the Russian Air Force:

en.wikipedia.org...

Think of them as flying missile silo, for this: (ships & subs have these)


www.breitbart.com...

The Russians are going to start staging Blackjack and Bear Bombers out of Cuba.

The reason is the planes are just a delivery truck for what they carry.

That still does not speak to the real issue.

People hear bomber and think it has to fly over the land it is going to bomb.

The problem is these planes "ONLY" carry cruise missiles now with a
a range possibly as far as 5,000 kilometers, or about 3,500 miles.

They could be flying around south of Cuba, launch and still hit anywhere
in the US except the most northern states.

Also most people think, ahhh its a cruise missile and we can shoot it down.

The problem with that is during the war with Serbia they shot down an F-117
stealth fighter and reverse engineered the technology.

It is now part of their advanced cruise missiles that carry 200 Kilo-ton nukes.

So you have a Stealth Cruise Missile on a delivery truck somewhere near cuba,
and the Russians are upset about our missile shield, and are willing to
replay the Cuban Missile Crisis scenario to make their point.

The baseline for the cruise missile is the KH-55 from the 1980's.

en.wikipedia.org...

It has been upgrade since then, but we do not fully know for sure its abilities.

That upgraded critter is now officially known as the KH-102

www.globalsecurity.org...

The fact that is has Stealth abilities is now PUBLIC knowledge
in the above article, in paragraph # 5.

Hints at a newer and even better Stealth Cruise Missile the KH-555
are mentioned as well.

So when people laugh about the old planes, think of them as an old
truck delivering a high tech package.

This may be a second Cuban Missile crisis,
but the person in the Whitehouse is not JFK.

Like the 60's nothing may happen, or some religious ppl may
think it is time for revelations to take place.

Some articles showing the Russians level of anger can be found here:

Top Brass Defends Russia's Right to Preemptive Strike:

www.mnweekly.ru...

Iran says it intercepted terrorist attack on Russian consulate:

en.rian.ru...

Russia takes measures to protect its facilities and citizens in Iran:

en.rian.ru...

Putin Calls U.S. ..Frightening Monster,' Urges French Solidarity:

www.bloomberg.com...

Vladimir Putin assassination attempt 'foiled'

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Just another heads up here.

My bug out bag is packed, and my Evac locale to the west is prepped.

Take care,
Ex_MislTech