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Cults and Psychospiritual Manipulation

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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:52 PM
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By Skyfloating


Jehova Witnesses btw, counts as one of the most boring cults out there. Id prefer Scientology over them anyday. My first girlfriend, when I was a teenager, was JW. She´d take me to services and the boredom is still unsurpassed by anything Ive experienced since. If you ask a critical question and look into their eyes it just seems to pass right through them, as if it didnt exist. Oh...and get this: We dont get to go to heaven after death. If Im gonna join a biblical cult, I wanna at least get to go to heaven!


I could not agree more, my neighbors are JW. They are the most unfriendly people I have ever met. Other neighbors of mine have tried to be friendly with them and they simply don't answer questions of any kind. They have been invited to parties and get togethers but they just don't even say anything. We have helped them get their animals off the road many times, and they don't even say thank you or strike up a conversation. It really bothers me. Then I have some of them come to my door with their booklets, and they are almost TOO friendly. When I found out that they ex-communicate family members for certain mistakes, I was done trying to understand them. That isn't something I believe in at all. I didn't know they say we don't get to heaven though, that makes it even worse. What is the point of their religion then? on second thought never mind. I am done with them.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by seagrass]




posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by seagrass
When I found out that they ex-communicate family members for certain mistakes, I was done trying to understand them. That isn't something I believe in at all. I didn't know they say we don't get to heaven though, that makes it even worse.


The threat of excommunication, even loved ones, is how JW keeps members in line. They discourage, and will excommunicate those who marry outside their faith, as well.

It's true, JW do not believe they will enter heaven. That is reserved for the guy who originated the group and, if memory serves, 144,000(???) JW faithful elders. Most of these slots have already been taken.


Anyway, JW believe they will inherit the earth after Judgement Day. They seem quite content with this set up.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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Some of the Indian gurus will tell you up front that they have nothing to teach, but they will gladly accept money or gifts. The followers come, and many leave feeling abused. Some leave feeling liberated. Some never leave.

I think the OP is correct; cults do offer something to the prospective member that they can't find elsewhere. The least PC fact issuing from this is that it is human nature to follow a leader until such time as the follower feels they have "earned" the right to be a leader. This is a choice that could have been made right away, but the follower didn't believe it. The follower needed a way to get from one place to another in his spiritual growth, and he picked one.

Corporate culture in America works along very similar principles.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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I once thought I was part of a cult...everytime my techer yelled recess we would all get giddy and move en masse outdoors...strange.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by seagrass
I could not agree more, my neighbors are JW. They are the most unfriendly people I have ever met. Other neighbors of mine have tried to be friendly with them and they simply don't answer questions of any kind. They have been invited to parties and get togethers but they just don't even say anything. We have helped them get their animals off the road many times, and they don't even say thank you or strike up a conversation. It really bothers me. Then I have some of them come to my door with their booklets, and they are almost TOO friendly. When I found out that they ex-communicate family members for certain mistakes, I was done trying to understand them. That isn't something I believe in at all. I didn't know they say we don't get to heaven though, that makes it even worse. What is the point of their religion then? on second thought never mind. I am done with them.


Well...not nevermind.

This is how cults operate and how they zombify people. With JW you get the impression of everyone being quite dulled down and depressed.

I think this specific cult is especially attractive to people who have resigned in life...given up any hope of actually achieving something, questioning life or having any fun.

When visiting their sunday service, try cracking a joke about something...anything. They´ll look at you like the monsters did in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by TH3ON3
I once thought I was part of a cult...everytime my techer yelled recess we would all get giddy and move en masse outdoors...strange.


I like that one.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 03:15 AM
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Skyfloating...

While I have actively tried the methods of this group I am about to mention, and gotten some pretty crazy results, I seem a bit skeptical.

Have you heard of Falun Dafa? It's a practiced loosely based off several Chinese Religious qigong energy cultivation practices, founded in1992 by Li Hongzhi... apparently a virtual unknown mill worker who suddenly rose to fame once he published Falun Gong.

Falun Dafa

Some things that got me interested:

-It is a qigong energy cultivation practice from China

-It has been violently persecuted and subject to widespread propaganda campaings by the Chinese Government

-It involves five rather simple exercises for energy cultivation

- the exercises I can monitor because I can see my energy field with my eyes closed, and I can feel it also, and it definitely does something to you, because afterwards, my aura is plainly visible with my eyes open... and you can feel energy flowing rapidly through you.

- many of the philosophies about life and the universe in the Falun Gong and Zhuan Falun (the two main texts) are in line with some things I've come to realize as truth.

- you can do the exercises and contemplate the literature on your own. It doesn't involve fees or meetings or groups with "Leaders".

-For the first 7 years of Falun Dafa's public appearance, China's Health Organizations endorsed Falun Dafa because it improved people's overall health, and therefore reduced health spending of the whole nation because it got so popular,

Some things I DISLIKE about Falun Dafa:

- Certain sayings and points seem to be kind of repetitive

- Li Hongzhi considers himself everyone's self appointed "Master"

- there are several cult-like mantras that represent the group, such as: "Truthfulness, Forbearance, compassion" and "Our purpose is to be saviors of all sentient beings".

- The practice discourages mixing any other practices in with it. If one chooes to mix Falun Dafa with any other method or spiritual path, your "Law Wheel" or Falun for short (kind of like a spirit guide I guess... but it's a flat disk with yin yangs and swastikas on it. Not Nazi swastikas) which is automatically formed in your lower abdomen by doing the practices and minding your character to the highest degree.


I don't need this to be a religion, but it seems as though many of its followers become fanatics about it. That would be a huge cult about 100,000,000 million strong.... from poor Chinese farmers all the way up to the people high up in the gov't.

Any more thoughts on the matter of Falun Gong before I pass iut.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Skyfloating...

While I have actively tried the methods of this group I am about to mention, and gotten some pretty crazy results, I seem a bit skeptical.


First off, one way to avoid becoming a cultist is always being able to list good and bad sides of a group. Since you´re able to do that, there´s nothing to worry about and you can reap some benefits of the group.

You know you´re brainwashed when something starts looking 100% black or 100% white. Like: "Non-group members are all deceived idiots". "Everything Mr. Wise says is true".





Some things that got me interested:

-It is a qigong energy cultivation practice from China

-It has been violently persecuted and subject to widespread propaganda campaings by the Chinese Government

-It involves five rather simple exercises for energy cultivation

- the exercises I can monitor because I can see my energy field with my eyes closed, and I can feel it also, and it definitely does something to you, because afterwards, my aura is plainly visible with my eyes open... and you can feel energy flowing rapidly through you.

- many of the philosophies about life and the universe in the Falun Gong and Zhuan Falun (the two main texts) are in line with some things I've come to realize as truth.

- you can do the exercises and contemplate the literature on your own. It doesn't involve fees or meetings or groups with "Leaders".

-For the first 7 years of Falun Dafa's public appearance, China's Health Organizations endorsed Falun Dafa because it improved people's overall health, and therefore reduced health spending of the whole nation because it got so popular,


qigong is great practice in my opinion. It doesnt necessarily have to be attached to a group or cult, but for starters groups/traditions are helpful.




Some things I DISLIKE about Falun Dafa:

- Certain sayings and points seem to be kind of repetitive

- Li Hongzhi considers himself everyone's self appointed "Master"

- there are several cult-like mantras that represent the group, such as: "Truthfulness, Forbearance, compassion" and "Our purpose is to be saviors of all sentient beings".

- The practice discourages mixing any other practices in with it. If one chooes to mix Falun Dafa with any other method or spiritual path, your "Law Wheel" or Falun for short (kind of like a spirit guide I guess... but it's a flat disk with yin yangs and swastikas on it. Not Nazi swastikas) which is automatically formed in your lower abdomen by doing the practices and minding your character to the highest degree.

I don't need this to be a religion, but it seems as though many of its followers become fanatics about it. That would be a huge cult about 100,000,000 million strong.... from poor Chinese farmers all the way up to the people high up in the gov't.

Any more thoughts on the matter of Falun Gong before I pass iut.


Obviously you´ve already detected the cult-like qualities of Falun Dafa. Good for you.

Cults always say "Dont mix our stuff with any other stuff! This is another way of saying "Ours is the only way", "We are right, they are wrong".

Cults always have a "Master" who is supposedly more important than anyone else. Thats just a load of BS...and the reason people become fanatics.

Ive been a member in some cults. I like to take out the good stuff and disregard the cult-stuff.

If I were a Falun member I´d learn the exercises and mostly ignore the repetitive drills and "dont practice any other method" BS.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 03:42 AM
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For reference: The ATS Falun Gong Thread



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:39 PM
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By Skyfloating


try cracking a joke about something...anything. They´ll look at you like the monsters did in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".

Well there must be a lot of them out there then, especially as cashiers, because I get that response quite a bit these days.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by seagrass

Well there must be a lot of them out there then, especially as cashiers, because I get that response quite a bit these days.


That must be because society itself is a bit of a cult.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by seagrass

Well there must be a lot of them out there then, especially as cashiers, because I get that response quite a bit these days.


That must be because society itself is a bit of a cult.
Either that, or I am just not as funny as I think I am. Nah... that can't be it.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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added to the thread topic I will say though that I think exaggerated seriousness is the hallmark of every cult.

You can detect them, smell them, rat them out with humor. If there is no response to that type of lightness, they have something to hide.

(thats my opinion at least).

As for you being funny: Sometimes...a little.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by seagrass

Well there must be a lot of them out there then, especially as cashiers, because I get that response quite a bit these days.


That must be because society itself is a bit of a cult.


YES! You said it!

"If you are not contributing to the betterment of [insert cult name here], you are worthless."

If you inserted SOCIETY into that space, it sounds like the mantra of like 90 to 99% percent of the human population. What about contributing to human evolution? Can society do that? Or is society the oppressor that we must overcome in order to evolve? Much like a person trying to escape from a cult. Once they escape, they've learned something quite valuable, haven't they?

Learn from society, instead of conforming to it.

Skyfloating, this has been quite the exemplary thread.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
added to the thread topic I will say though that I think exaggerated seriousness is the hallmark of every cult.

You can detect them, smell them, rat them out with humor. If there is no response to that type of lightness, they have something to hide.


How 'bout the Church of the SubGenius, then? Are they the perfect anti-cult?

Hmm, maybe there's something to that...


The Book of the SubGenius says: "If you don't laugh, you didn't get it, but if you ONLY laugh, you didn't get it."



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Ian McLean
 


I like that. If you dont laugh, you indeed didnt get it.

And if you only laugh...such as in the Osho (Bagwhan) cult, who´s members always smiled and always so everything as "good", you didnt get it either.

SubGenius thinking.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by dunwichwitch

"If you are not contributing to the betterment of [insert cult name here], you are worthless."



Society does have a collection of beliefs they would never question. Such as: "It is inappropriate to show up nude at funerals".

No kidding.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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but it would be kind of "funny", and that is why we love our movies. We get to do and see stuff that you might never see otherwise.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by seagrass
but it would be kind of "funny", and that is why we love our movies. We get to do and see stuff that you might never see otherwise.


Thats the thing. Real life is only allowed in the movies.

God is a comedy for an audience thats afraid to laugh



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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The topic is fascinating for two reasons:

1. It shows the power of the mind.

2. It shows the potential (or lack of potential) of mass transformation techniques (peer pressure, guilt-tripping, shunning).

I agree. Society in general is a form of a cult. The only difference is that what is considered a traditional religion developed and became the norm of a society over a long period of time. Sometimes wars were necessary to establish a monopoly of faith. Whatever the case, staying in power requires the mass education (child rearing, peer-pressure, guilt-tripping, shunning) of each generation of children.

Now the difference between "traditional" religions and cults is the time factor. "Cults" (new religions) attempt to engineer and speed up the education process. The same techniques above are used but within a more artificial setting.

What I don't like about any organized religion or "cult" is the requirement of alligence. That creates an "us vs. them" mentality. If God is universal and infinite, why would he choose only one religion to promote? Also why is there the necessity of having to pay for the "truth?" Isn't the point of spreading God's love an effort to create a world of harmony and peace? Why hinder the process with monetary demands? It seems to me that all religions need to progress to higher level of social responsibility and egoless altruism.





[edit on 7/23/2008 by Matrix1111]



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