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Sunbathers Bask Next To Child Corpses

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posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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And that cause is lack of education, lack of better knowledge, poverty, a life-long state of humiliation. And these things are caused by hundreds of years of slavery, of discrimination, of suspicion, of being considered sub-humans and criminals. If society would actually treat them as humans, they would act as such.


But their behaviour IS human. It's a misconception that the Roma are forced into to the life they lead. More often then not, it IS a choice. You see stealing, to the Roma, isn't stealing as they don't really believe in owning anything. How can you steal something which does not belong to anyone?

My family is Jenisch - the Swiss Roma. My siblings and I are the only Jenisch in our family who currently have jobs and lives which you might see as more normal. Everyone else in my generation lives in caravans and makes their living by "Mischle". It's the Jenisch word for scamming, basically.

They CHOOSE to live this way and would be horribly unhappy to have to settle in one spot, get jobs and send their children to school. It is just not their way. They aren't wrapped up in a consumer society like most of us are.

My mother was one of the Kinder Der Landstrasse - It was a pogram designed to fix the gypsy problem in Switzerland. Jenisch children were taken away from their parents and put into homes where they were supposed to be cured of being gypsies. My mother suffered horrible abuse as a child in their attempts to make her "swiss". At the age of 18 my mother was put in prison along side child murderers, her only crime was being Jenisch.

The official file which documents my mothers life is over 40,000 pages long. In it are reports by doctors and psychiatrists stating that due to my mothers genetics ( My genetic line is considered to be especially tainted ) she would alsways be sexually promiscuous and a thief. She was 4 years old when that was written.

Jenisch on Wiki


My point is that you might look at them and feel sympathtic - No need.

The Roma live the life they want to live. One of freedom from consumerism, the law, and societal constraints.

In a way I envy that.




posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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Oops, double post, sorry.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Merigold]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 08:17 AM
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This is pretty screwed up, although the annoying gypsies who try and sell you crap are petty.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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InTrueFiction and Sonya610:

In Romania too education is free, or almost free, if you consider the fact that in order to go to school you need supplies. There are also programms that offer free college educations for roma children. But lets face it, its not enough, especially if your family barely knows how to write and also don't have the means to support you through 18 years of schooling.

So this is why, although 8 or 9 years of school are mandatory in Romania, lots of roma kids only go to school for around 4 years. There was a case in the media a while ago about a roma teenage girl that commited suicide because she wanted to go to highschool while her family wanted her to quit.

Merigold:

I can't help but feeling sympathetic. It's one thing to be an adult who chooses their own destiny and decides to "turn their back to society". I envy a free, nomadic way of life too in a way.

But it's another thing to be a child, forced to live in poverty, forced to beg whole day long on the street even if it's freezing cold outside and be abused by strangers. They're subject to discrimination and hate and they're basically helpless. And no, they didn't choose this. How in the world am i supposed to not feel sympathetic?



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 09:09 AM
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Why? Why/ Why? have we become so desensitized to these things....I just can't wrap my head around how someone would not even be disturbed by this. Have we as a world society become so un-caring about even human life that we will sit next to a dead human child and continue to do something as vain as get a suntan!

Death … It’s the only thing we haven’t succeeded in completely vulgarizing.
Aldous Huxley, Eyeless in Gaza (1936)

I don't think this quote is true anymore.


[edit on 7/23/2008 by CaptGizmo]

[edit on 7/23/2008 by CaptGizmo]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Wallachian
[more

But it's another thing to be a child, forced to live in poverty, forced to beg whole day long on the street even if it's freezing cold outside and be abused by strangers. They're subject to discrimination and hate and they're basically helpless. And no, they didn't choose this. How in the world am i supposed to not feel sympathetic


Of course, I didn't mean to say you shouldn't be sympathetic. Children don't choose their lot in life. I just meant to say that the Roma as a people choose their way of life.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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[edit on 13/05/2008 by just_julie]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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Well maybe the rest of the world just needs some re-education. They need to learn to like and appreciate it when people steal from them every chance they get.

They we would not need prisons. We could all just revel in the moral diversity.

To MeriGold, so are you saying in Roma society they scam and steal from eachother as well and that is not a problem? For instance if one Roma got the chance to steal the wallet of another, that is considered okay because no one owns anything? Please explain.

(BTW i was being sarcastic when I said none of those countries offer free education).



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


What is your point, actually?

This thread was about how 2 roma children drowned and their bodies were left on the beach for 3 hours while people catched tan and ate around them. The OP of this thread suggested this might have been a racial thing and we were discussing that.

Now please tell me in which way you have been contributing to this thread except saying that gypsies are bad and they steal. Where do you even wanna go with that? How does this relate to the thread?

Sorry for the rant and the completely off topic post. Feel free to delete this if you consider so (mods).

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Wallachian]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by Wallachian
 
Good find, that video clears up several of unanswered questions. Thanks.

reply to post by Merigold
 
Thanks for the inside info Merigold. Much appreciated.

IMHO anyone who can enjoy a bit of sun and a beach picnic next to a couple of dead children needs to have their head checked.

Sorry for any offense for those of you who thinks this is fine, but to me it's just plain sick.


Peace

g



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by WallachianNow please tell me in which way you have been contributing to this thread except saying that gypsies are bad and they steal. Where do you even wanna go with that? How does this relate to the thread?


The article is primarily devoted to BIAS against the Roma. You and several other posters have been discussing how it is "a cultural difference" so if this thread is offtopic you take responsibility for that as well.

Now Merigold has expressed some insight into the Roma mindset. How is it wrong to ask about that insight? Seems we may all learn something here.

Since Merigold explained it was simply a different view in which no one owns anything I would really like to know if that applies to those within their group, or if they in fact DO have rules regarding stealing from eachother.

I think it is extremely pertinent considering most of the article was discussing ethnic bias. Do the Roma treat eachother the same way that they treat "others"? Or do they see it as okay to steal from outsiders, while maybe not okay to steal from eachother.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 11:10 AM
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North Americans have no idea who gypsies are. I hope they’ll never know.
The Italians have been hit hard by their violence and disregard for laws and human life (Google a recent incident where a Romanian gypsy killed an Italian woman).
I do not condone but totally understand the behavior of the people in the article.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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I seenothing wrong with this. It probably took too long to remove the bodies but who knows why. maybe the morgue was backed up and they couldn't get their sooner. It is my experience that an ambulance will not take already deceased people after any significant time.

As for the bystanders, who know show they reacted. I am sure many of the beach goers stopped and said a prayer or mourned for a while after it happened. once the decision wa smade that they were going to stay on the beach, what else do want them to do? I know if i was at the beach, I would be looking for some diversion, like playing frisbee or football or something. it would do noone any good to sit an dmourn all day long.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 


If I was at the beach, I would stay until someone came to take the bodies. I would want to see the resolution. Maybe even make sure no one messed with them, or that other kids didn't wander too close.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 
In the Italian video there is a guy standing 'guard' over the bodies. He looks like he could be a paramedic, but I don't know Italian uniforms.

I would have moved to another part of the beach or another beach altogether. I really don't get how people can sit and have a picnic next to this.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


I'm sorry if i came a little too harsh. I find it a bit disturbing because i have seen enough racism to last me a lifetime, therefore i tend to overreact.

Maybe we should make a different thread to discuss these matters. I don't see how they are relevant to this thread.

The life of a human being does not depend on the race, ethnic background or social status. Even if those girls were gypsies, does not necessarily mean they were thieves. Even if they were thieves, at least in their death they deserved respect.

Edit: I don't in any way support or encourage a criminal way of life. If a person steals, that person should go to jail. Just don't assume somebody is a criminal just because they belong to a certain ethnic group.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Wallachian]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by gekko
 


I think once you've seen something like that your day is pretty much shot anyway. Going to another beach isn't going to help I don't think.

Or is it really the more "proper" thing to just go to another beach and let "out of sight out of mind" prevail?

I would want to see the resolution.

EDIT to add:

Link to video?

[edit on 7/23/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by Bursuc
 


I find it hard to believe that you think punishing an innocent individual for the sins of others of his "race" is ok.

Please, if you must say the reaction of the people on that beach was a normal one, do it, by all means. But don't say it was normal because the girls were gypsies and they deserved it.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by gekkoI would have moved to another part of the beach or another beach altogether. I really don't get how people can sit and have a picnic next to this.


Well keep in mind not everyone reacts the same way. Perhaps 75% of the people DID move further down the beach.

I get the feeling you are freaked out over the idea of being in the vicinity of dead people. Perhaps if one has never been around dead people that might seem really odd. But for those that have seen plenty of funerals and such, that for whatever reasons may not be all that freaked by it, well it doesn't seem that unusual.

The corpses WERE covered, they were also fresh. I honestly don't think I would be that freaked out by it. Now eating lunch near the bodies might be a bit odd, but remaining in the vicinity doesn't seem that odd. Not everyone would consider eating near the bodies to be a sign of disrespect either, food and funerals and mourning are often interconnected.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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I think that judging by the various responses here it is safe to say that there would naturally be quite a bit of confusion as to what one should actually do if they were in that situation.

In that confusion, some people might just stay put by default, not knowing what they should do.



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