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(update)With Unexpected Iraqi Withdrawal Demand, Bush Has Lost the War

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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by whiteraven
reply to post by mystiq
 

I agree....we need to show some of the horrors of war.

The innocent do suffer.

I believe if we pulled out now from Iraq it WOULD be the innocent who suffer.

There will be a bloodbath if we pull out of Iraq. It is far better that we stay now that we have FUBARed the country.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by whiteraven]


and how do you know it would be a bloodbath? i for one have not seen ANY studies or data separating the good guys from bad guys from the sometimes bad guys to the good guys if they do what we say but are loose cannons and nothing quantifying the reasons for the death and destruction and proving to me without a doubt who caused what. if you have, please share.




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by danogee
reply to post by whiteraven
 


Does not add up as professional terrorists either does it. "Yes boss/gaffer/master, we arrived at the destination and all our intricate plans were in place, but some pissed up bloke blew the whole thing". Hmmmm.

Mind you, have you ever had to tackle a drunken glaswegian!



This really has no earmarks of a false flag.

The standard false flag will prey on stereotypes, archtypes, myth.

This was just two pissed of Medical Profesionals who happened to be Muslim and had no idea how to build a bomb.


Peace my friend.

edit: And to bring things back on line....Is this early propaganda???

Brought on by the former head of the CIA in the middle east???

Why would Robert Baer say those things? [that the US had lost the war]

He said...that "Iran is the new superpower"

Now he said this at about the same time that the American ambassador was in Iran?!

He said..."that the US had made some errors, and that he was not anti-Iranian..."

He said that at about the same time Obama was in Iraq and the US Ambassador was in Iran?

This is what puzzles me?

DOes this not puzzle you?


[edit on 22-7-2008 by whiteraven]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 


Peace to you too whitey, i see your point, not saying i agree though!. It's all just one big mess. Can't think anymore, need bed, night all.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 



The balance of power would begin to shift.

Iran, who wants to regain the Persian Empire would begin to move, with Russia's blessing, toward absorbing Iraq.

Remember...it was not that long ago when the UK divided up Persia!

It is important to maintain a balance of power in the Middle East.

If we allow China, India, Russia, Europe to play the cards of power then we need to be sure that we have a Ace in the hole.

Pulling out of the mess that we have made can be compared to a man having the where with all to make a baby (the war) but lacks the fortitude to raise the child. (pulls out of Iraq)

WE made promises to the Goverment of Iraq as well as to the future generations of Iraq.

We, at the very least, should not abandon Iraq like we abandoned Afghanistan in the Soviet/Afghan conflict back in the 1990's.

Look at the blowback created by that affair. Bin Laden fought WITH us against the Soviets. He was our Allie not our enemy.

Now look at what has happened.

Ben Laden is dead, we are on the brink of World War, Russia is moving into South America again, Cuba is sideing with Russia again, Israel is boxed in by enemies on every side, Russia has allied itself with Iran and we are in the middle of one of the most important elections of our time.

Times are dangerous.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by neformore
In WW2, the allies attacked and subdued the armed forces of countries that had attacked them first

Really?
When did Germany ever attack America. Using your flawed logic, I guess we should have just ignored them. Good call.


Germany declared war on America on 11 December 1941, is that not good enough for you?

Again, Americans and history is not the perfect mix...



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 

Hello lucidity my new friend.

Speaking as a bad guy that has worn a "white hat" intermittently since 1982; I welcome you're input and ready to defend the imperialistic USA.

If you have a better citizenship offer - please share.

I am still ready to acquire dual citizenship in any second level country that offers me an even break.

I still do not apologize for my service and taking a lot of my planets fellow ho,o sapiens to their final reward.

I also offered them the same opportunity to escort me. I may have been lucky or had superior early advantages or just been blessed by choosing the right parents; but I still with every fibre of being that what I wasdoing was the best to promote the interests of my family and friends at the time.

I am also still ready to enlarge my spere of family and friends to include everyone that in my biased judgement is decent and just. You know care for their offspring and families; pay their own bills and own their own results of their own behavior.

Any takers?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by darkmaninperth
Germany declared war on America on 11 December 1941, is that not good enough for you?

Umm.....No!
Did I say when they declared war? Answer: No
The question I asked was when did Germany attack American soil?
Do you understand the difference between attack and words?

Do you comprehend what you are reading?

Please stop projecting your thoughts onto what I actually said.


Again, Americans and history is not the perfect mix...

Good grief!

So you are blaming Americans for YOUR lack of comprehension skills.

Fabulous! Did you ride the short yellow bus in school?


[edit on 22-7-2008 by WhatTheory]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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To those that care - my apologies for the seemingly off topic post above.

To the point - how can GWB lose something that he truly played a very minor role in?

I understand that he is the high profile target dejure; but there are hundreds of international players that had much greater impact on the present Iraq/ME snafu than the most recent CIC . IMHO/

[edit on 7/22/2008 by kerontehe]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by mind is the universe

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
]]

The idea that there exists, in an imperfect world, a perfect course of action, or the possibillity that the perfect good can be met, is one of the chief signs of an immature mind. Perfect solutions do not exist in imperfect worlds.



its not about been perfect, or elaborating what you've just done.

Its about this is wrong, and its not a mistake its intentional. Let's learn from this, Something is not woriking here. Why do we need to nuc each other.

Therefore, Its not about been perfect or imperfect. Or whether We should be justifed for keep doing the same intentional wrong doings because its a imperfect world and and doing right is impossible to do in an imperfect world, what your saying is really stupid.

The beauty of imperfection, It gives us the capability to look at our world and improve it. Its call maturing, evolving, adapting and from bad patterns to good patterns. Nothing and no nation is asked to be perfect.


lol I laughed, at the silly elaborating you've made in your posts






[edit on 22-7-2008 by mind is the universe]



Is it just me or can you guys NOT get it that this was something he was talking about as an event in history! Not what he endorses as a solution to world hunger albeit I like the attempt at putting the words in his mouth SHAZ never SAID THAT, YOU GUYS ARE.

Jeeez



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by Double Eights
 


Yeah, well, try looking at a more recent poll, the official numbers for the U.S. is going up, and considering the risk the average moderate Iraqi takes by saying anything positive about the U.S. presence, the numbers for the U.S. look pretty good, and are improving considerable. The answer to this one question tells the real truth to the matter to me. 63% of Iraqis want U.S. troops to continue to remain in Iraq.

www.globalpolicy.org...

Q22 How long do you think US and other Coalition forces should remain in Iraq? Should they leave now, remain until security is restored, remain until the Iraqi government is stronger, remain until Iraqi security forces can operate independently, remain longer but leave eventually, or never leave?

question date Mar08 Aug07 Feb07 2005

Leave now 38 47 35 26

Remain until
security
is restored 35 34 38 31

Remain until
the Iraqi
government
is stronger 14 10 14 19?

Remain until
the Iraqi
security
forces can
operate
independently 10 7 11 16

Remain
longer but
leave
eventually 3 2 2 3


Never
leave 1 - 1 1


Refused/don’t know
-
-
-
4



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by kerontehe
 


The name Bush has become Iconic. For better or for worse.

The name Bush is Iconic in the sense toward a "man who engages in war".

He himself does not like this nor does he accept this fact.

I myself do not think it is accurate.

We have "different" "hounds of war".

Nevertheless...so far as the "headline/propaganda" sits this is the present intended use of the word Bush.

It has moved out of the sphere related to the man himself and moved toward a "myth" of American Imperialism.


This is a fact. It is being discused as I type by various persons.

"Unexpected withdraw" is still being in the cards.

But...the things that Baer related too was astounding.

Can anybody in the UK get this video on Youtube so everybody can view it.

It was on Hardtalk/BBC/ yesterday. Robert Baer, former CIA, Author..etc.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 



Why would Robert Baer say those things? [that the US had lost the war]


Because it is starting to look like U.S. forces might succeed in establishing a true representative government in Iraq, and that is not what the powers that be want to happen. U.S. soldiers might actually succeed despite all efforts of the NWO/IC's to create chaos in Iraq and prevent success.

If Iran is successfully smuggling huge quantities of oil out of Iraq, it is because that is what higher ups on both sides want. That way they can launder the money and avoid having to pay back U.S. taxpayers or giving money to the new Iraq government which would greatly strengthen and stabilize that government.

Like I have said many times before, GW and Amajwhatever are both in the same circle jerk.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by mind is the universe
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed
 


You need to get off the topic about perfection here ffs.

Its not about been perfect in an imperfect world
Would you get real....

Its about making the world a better place so lay off the elaborating, my god what such nonsense. I really have no paitence for such crap your sprouting.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by mind is the universe]


Another words, any topic that deals with REALITY, you have no patience for. All Shaz is trying to get you to understand was about a damn historical decision that was made back when Truman was president that hindsight is always 2020 but he was trying to get you to CONSIDER the choices as if it were present time but for some reason, NONE of you can make that nexus without jumping to postulates of the starving in darfur. Then when Shaz is shaking his damn head like a friggin cartoon saying WTF? I know what he means because it was the first thing I thought was "There was no darfur situation when truman was making that decision" I mean if you can't stay message centered then perhaps this is too complex a discussion for you and you should be back at it in BTS talking about the grays that abducted and rectally probed you or whatever it is you do when you can't keep up with a thread here.

- Con

[edit on 22-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
The question I asked was when did Germany attack American soil?


No, the question you asked was

When did Germany ever attack America.


They attacked American merchant shipping, American Army, Air force and Navy.


Do you understand the difference between attack and words?


Yes, I know how to read a question and answer appropriately. It appears you can not even remember what it is you asked or ask the correct question.


Do you comprehend what you are reading?


Yes. Shame you do not seem to be able to.


Please stop projecting your thoughts onto what I actually said.


Projecting thoughts? Please elaborate?


Good grief!

So you are blaming Americans for YOUR lack of comprehension skills.


No, I am merely stating that you can not even remember what it was you asked and you are claiming that I am wrong due to your poor choice of words.


Fabulous! Did you ride the short yellow bus in school?


You ride a bus in school? You people can not even walk in school? Sheesh, no wonder there is an obesity problem in your country.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by darkmaninperth

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by neformore
In WW2, the allies attacked and subdued the armed forces of countries that had attacked them first

Really?
When did Germany ever attack America. Using your flawed logic, I guess we should have just ignored them. Good call.


Germany declared war on America on 11 December 1941, is that not good enough for you?

Again, Americans and history is not the perfect mix...


You are talking about the famous day that will live in infamy speech where FDR is telling the world Japan attacked pearl harbor. That isn't correct but the closest I can come up with on Germany attacking America lol.

What ?? When?

- Con



[edit on 22-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by darkmaninperth
 






They attacked American merchant shipping, American Army, Air force and Navy.


You are right.

Guess who? The Ruben James...October 31 1941!!! Before Pearl Harbour!

Good Job.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


WHY INDEED?

Have you seen the interview?!

Robert Baer is not a "hater". This guy knows, he was HUMINT, he was the ground guy...he knows what goes on in the MI.

He understands the intricate relationships in the MI as well as any American alive.

And he says stuff that makes my mouth go dry.

I mean the game is far from over and he has become chicken little.

Or not.

This man bleeds Red, White and Blue.

What is he saying by this?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by darkmaninperth
They attacked American merchant shipping, American Army, Air force and Navy.

Not before the U.S. entered into the war. Come on, stop changing your argument and moving the goal posts. Focus please.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology
You are talking about the famous day that will live in infamy speech where FDR is telling the world Japan attacked pearl harbor.


No. I was talking about the day that Germany (and Italy) declared war on America. 11 December 1941.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 
Exactly correct.

And for all you armchair researchers out there - what foreign country was the first to have military observers in SE Asia?

Back to topic if it matters - Who gets to decide success or defeat anyway?

The sideliners or the ones commited?

What outside country has more invested and yes stands to reap the lions share of profits?

Feel free to insert whatever 1 liner excites you.

When you play by the judges rules the judges decide when it's game over.




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