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(update)With Unexpected Iraqi Withdrawal Demand, Bush Has Lost the War

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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


Um evidence of the U.S. postion in the worlds economy? Sure, but you could have googled this stuff easily.

GDP
siteresources.worldbank.org...

GDP per Capita
www.worldfactsandfigures.com...

Worker productivity
www.cbsnews.com...

The U.S., according to the report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work - a second key measure of productivity.

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, $37.99, a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars in oil exports and high prices for goods at home. The U.S. is second at $35.63, about a half-dollar ahead of third-placed France.

America's increased productivity "has to do with the ICT (information and communication technologies) revolution, with the way the U.S. organizes companies, with the high level of competition in the country, with the extension of trade and investment abroad," said Jose Manuel Salazar, the ILO's head of employment.

The ILO report warned that the widening of the gap between leaders such as the U.S. and poorer nations has been even more dramatic.

Laborers from regions such as southeast Asia, Latin America and the Middle East have the potential to create more wealth, but are being held back by a lack of investment in training, equipment and technology, the agency said.


As far as technology is concerned you are using a computer created by U.S. technology, to serf the internet created by U.S. technology, and use Google primarily as your search engine, also U.S. technology.

As far as Middle Eastern technology is concerned, they did a few things a Thousand years ago as your link show, but that is a long time to rest on their laurels.




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by audas
 


Wow, when I travel to foriegn countries I ussually get the royal treatment. I have found that people from the U.S. tend to be very well liked in most countries.

How is it that we are so ignorant, yet lead the world in technology?

My observation is that most U.S. posters, and British as well, tend to admit the problems with their countries, while most posters supporting the Middle East nations can never admit the problems with their countries.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by audas
First rule of this entire forum, and the one Americans should follow as closely as possible, is that Americans are without doubt the most ignorant peoples (collectively and individually) on this planet.


LOL will the jealousy never end HA HA HA What the hell are YOU supposed to be audas?? The alternative? AGH HA HA HA HA HA You think because you can come into a thread and start spewing ad-hom's about America and Americans having NOTHING to do with this topic, that we are all supposed to be awestruck by your staggering intellect? What because your Country has accepted more sexual depravity that makes you advanced? I sure hope you don't represent the majority of your people because if anything, you're an embarrassement



There isn't a country on earth where the people do not fall about laughing at how ignorant and fundamentally asinine America /s are.


uh huh,, go on,,



It is the global joke.


ok


It makes absolute sense that they think they are invincible,


Any time your country wants to test that theory it sure would bode well proving how ignorant your post is so far.



everyone else is wrong,


I don't know about everyone but YOU are unequivocally absolutely wrong but for some reason I doubt you would agree


It is a never ending source of amusement that America is beset by religious intolerance, bigotry, homophobic hatred, violence, etc.


Well not everyone can live in the utopian land of self aggrandizing, sexually advanced and liberated, scholastically superior racially tolerant peoples republic of perfection, YOU hail from.

Umm where would that be exactly guy?


It is a never ending source of asbolute amusement to consider that Japan is not far behind America in GDP and comprehensively smashes America on a GDP per capita basis


Ok


The EU is a larger economy and more advanced in every way - as a union it dwarfs Americas "union"


Uh huh



Americans are the last country and people we should be listening to




Im all for positive action, integrating the lowest and intellectually weakest amongst us and giving them a voice -


That isn't what it sounds like if what you are saying about America is true but then again I never thought you knew what they hell you are talking about anyway


but lets not confuse brawn with brain.

That isn't the only thing we won't confuse with your brain



I am seeing posts on this thread regarding the Middle east which are clearly from Americans - clearly American in that they have no idea what so ever, none.


And YOU do eh? hehe



The only thing Americans should be doing is listening,


Yeah and I think I've heard just about enough of your rant, anti American Bigotry and your over exaggerated opinion of your self


you ideas and understanding of the world is so infantile it is depressing.


If you represent what the rest of the world is we are missing???

Then, we haven't missed a damn thing other than the fact their are people in this world that have the mind and personality

of a tree stump


- Con




[edit on 22-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Whens the key word.

Especially when you still parade your apparent belief in being surperior and righteous in all possible ways.

... unfortunately, the world doesnt 'need' america any more, and its about time america was left out in the cold, until it started playing with more decency.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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Iran is extremely vulnerable to outside pressure, because it's only value to the world is it's oil. Take that away and they are no better than any third world nation.

Iran is not wealthy. Over 90 percent of Iran population under poverty line: MP.

www.iranfocus.com...

Baer's contention that Iran can close the Straits of Hormuz is ridiculous on 2 fronts: First, it would be cutting their own throats, and second, they do not have the military might to do so.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
As far as Iran becoming a super power, the nation has no industry to speak of except oil. Talk about desperate wishing on the pro-Muslim groups. Iran peaked its oil production about a decade ago, in another twenty years they won't have enough oil to sell to keep their economy going, and they will sink back into obscurity.


Interesting.

If I was a country facing this problem I'd be looking at developing alternative power generation capability.

Something like - oh I dunno - a nuclear reactor maybe? Works for everyone else outside the middle east.....



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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Good to see the bright sparks have come out - the reality is, as evidenced by your own posts, that it is unequivocally Americans who are unable to accept they are one of the many, their cocksure self belief that they are some how better than everyone - do you fail to realise that almost every part of my "computer" was made in Asia- probably Japan. You car manufacturing industry, in fact most industries outside of weapons, are decimated. You have moved to a service based economy in technology and yet in the past 24 months have outsourced this to India at unprecedented levels - then present facts and figures from three and four years ago - the reality is I live in Europe, have lived in Asia, South East Asia, have travelled to almost every continent and scores of countries in which I have worked and studied, and I should know how Americans are viewed - as I am one of those doing and associating with the viewers - you can not know how you are percieved as you are the the subject of this perspective and are therefore not in a position to state what this perspective is, and no matter how naively you think you can, you are not in a position to DICTATE how you are seen. Hence you do not know and simply stating otherwise makes you look foolish beyond all measure - my point exactly.

To say that others are belligerant for not accepting American belligerence is beyond the pale - it is not even worth typing a response.

Your economy, is collapsing around you, your debt levels are so far off the scale that you will be in recession for decades, your unsecured liabilities would immediately bankrupt your country if acknowledged, your balance of trade is so far in the red you are resorting to borrowing money from your sworn enemies in communists -

You fall last in OECD countries for almost every human indicator on well being - your technology is totally reliant on developments from decades ago - lets face it QATAR has a higher GDP per captia here, your government does not supply universal health care, education, you have more people in jail per capita than any other country, pollution per capita than China, your income distribution is a disgrace ---

These are not the statistics of a world leader, but of an empire on the verge of collapse.

Your economy is in tatters, you have invaded directly or indirectly over 70 countries and have the indecency to comment that you are well received. By whom - the British? Canadians? Try going somewhere they don't speak English mate.

Russia beat you in almost every aspect of the space race before 1990 - since then China has stepped up along with India, Japan, EU and Russia is returning. You have no significant weaponry over any other nation - none - and yet believe yourselves to be invincible- the manufacturing capability of weapons in China dwarfs yours (there are almost a billion people more ready to go at than you)......

Which part of your country are you still proud of ? Which aspect is leading the world ? Semiconductors NO, bio chemistry, phsycis, etc,etc, no. Nothing.

You mention Google ( a search engine whose algorithm was design by an Aussie) and high yield from workers - which is basically to say you pay them a pittance, work them into the ground, dont provide work care, destroy the environment, trammel human rights, exploit third world workers, and then claim to be have the moral high ground and YOU know how WE think of you ???!

Well you obviously don't know, as evidenced by this thread. You were ONCE a great a nation, you were ONCE considered great, and were ONCE a bastion of democracy, hope good will and the future of humanity - you are no longer. You are a tyrannical, pariah, quasi religious military dictatorship state poised on the verge of collapse, in the grip of an imperialist Caesar, utterly reliant on debt to survive......

which part of this upsets you the most ? Which part of this do you hate to hear ? Its not a lie, its not untrue, its just hurtful and upsetting. Fair enough, the only way to fix it is to listen to what people are telling you, to hear the complaints, to take off the veil of ignorance and take stock of your plight.

But if you have no interest in averting your impending doom - yes you are omnipotent all seeing overlords..



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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Wow...that's a pretty broad brush you're painting us Americans with. Consider this: every few years we are told that our vote makes a difference. We get to choose between several different elitist liars. An honest man can't get elected. If we try to follow our Constitution, and "throw out" our current, corrupt government, we can be prosecuted for treason. Do you honestly think we glow with pride over the actions of our government? Look at the approval ratings! We are cattle, sheep, slaves, to their will. What would you have us do? Leave? Ha! They have taken that option off the table by devaluing the US dollar to the point that we can't afford the exchange rate in most developed countries. Seriously, what options do we have? The working (middle) class built this country, and it has been stolen from us.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Iran is extremely vulnerable to outside pressure, because it's only value to the world is it's oil. Take that away and they are no better than any third world nation.

Iran is not wealthy. Over 90 percent of Iran population under poverty line: MP.

www.iranfocus.com...

Baer's contention that Iran can close the Straits of Hormuz is ridiculous on 2 fronts: First, it would be cutting their own throats, and second, they do not have the military might to do so.


Looks like you have posted a relevant link there buddy - what almost 4 years old ? 90percent live under the poverty line ?

Here is a real article
www.payvand.com...

No one would question the wealth of America over Iran - however the fact that America has knowingly raped the prospect of the third world ever escaping blinding poverty through profoundly unfair trade restrictions, development debt, IPR restrictions, tariffs, and now disgustingly bio fuels, and for Iran, Iraq, crippling sanctions which at the most conservative estimate cost the lives of half a million children should be paraded around this internet as some sort of moral achievement or vindication of power is repugnant in the most absolute form.

As far as Iran destabilising the straights have you EVER even looked at this area on a map ? It would take a well placed banana peel to shut it down. Please. And do you think for a second that forcing the people of America and Britain in to abject resource poverty isn't going to influence them to reconsider their policies is simply absurd. There have been protests around the world, riots and worse in many first world coutnries (england and spain) over the price of fuel and subsequent inflation - if things were to suddenyl become 5 times worse there will be bedlam in the streets - of course this will force the north to reconsider its position - especially when China, India, Pakistan and Russia are all still trading with Iran, have plenty of fuel while Europe shudders.

It is an endless source of wonder that Americans would prefer to conjure up fantasies rather than admit equality with any other nation - any idea of equality or any suggestion which remotely questions what must be the severest case of narcissism and egotistical mania is met with total delusion.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by iceman31478
Wow...that's a pretty broad brush you're painting us Americans with. Consider this: every few years we are told that our vote makes a difference. We get to choose between several different elitist liars. An honest man can't get elected. If we try to follow our Constitution, and "throw out" our current, corrupt government, we can be prosecuted for treason. Do you honestly think we glow with pride over the actions of our government? Look at the approval ratings! We are cattle, sheep, slaves, to their will. What would you have us do? Leave? Ha! They have taken that option off the table by devaluing the US dollar to the point that we can't afford the exchange rate in most developed countries. Seriously, what options do we have? The working (middle) class built this country, and it has been stolen from us.


How can I argue with this - I can not. You are not claiming invincibility, hegemony, moral perfection - rather an honest self assessment of your predicament - no one could ask for more. It is from here that you can ask for help - the rest of the world would gladly stand right beside the people of America in revolution against your tyrannical overlords. Gladly. The best way would to have a global boycott of America, American products, travel, evict all embassies, ambassadors, nationalise all American owned utilities, amenities and essential services and drive America into isolation - where by we have recognised the despotic nature into which the beast has morphed and allow for change to come through recognition of the failures occurring and the reformation, revolution or simply reappraisal required to get things back on track.

The world will completely support this, every country would help America, this is the greatest of Americas delusions - that we are out to get you - we are not. It is an evil form of McCarthy-ism perpetrated upon the American people to maintain control. The people of the world would welcome America with open arks if only they would reciprocate the good will.

I have read with a heavy heart fools on these forums push their militant agenda that only the weak and ignorant could ever accept peace as a viable option, it wreaks of "Back Mass" self delusion. A continuation of this thinking will drive us to assured global annihilation - perhaps the alternative may not work, however at least there is a chance - pursuing ever escalating global aggression over ever shrinking resources with ever more powerful weapons can only EVER end in one out come - total death.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 


The war has been over for years now, we won in less than 3 days. The policing of iraq will continue for many years like japan, germany and korea, its been 50 years and we are still in germany and japan, didnt we win WWII, why are we still there?

Did you know that for 7 years german snipers shot at our troops after the war was won. Did you know that 20 years later, some japanese still thought the war was on?

We won the war in iraq in 3 days, done deal.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by whiteraven
 


The war has been over for years now, we won in less than 3 days. The policing of iraq will continue for many years like japan, germany and korea, its been 50 years and we are still in germany and japan, didnt we win WWII, why are we still there?

Did you know that for 7 years german snipers shot at our troops after the war was won. Did you know that 20 years later, some japanese still thought the war was on?

We won the war in iraq in 3 days, done deal.


Um - right. A lone soldier on a remote island in the south pacific who never knew of the suspension of hostilities and declaration of peace is the equivalent of the 150,000 soldiers and 160,000 mercenaries in Iraq ?




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by audas
 


Got any links to back up this load of BS, cause I already posted links that prove you are wrong. You sure are a bitter person, what happened, a yank steal your girl? Oh yeah, Google's web browser was developed by several people working together. While we do ship out a great deal of our manufacturing, the technology is developed here, that is what technological leading countries do. You will also find that a great many developing nations are now building more advanced equipment here in the U.S.. Those GDP number I posted are current.

Hey, I am only standing up for the U.S. because the people started this thread to put the U.S. down. I know the problems that the U.S. is facing, although the picture isn't nearly as dark as you fantasize them to be. Third world nations are third world nations because the people in power in those nations are more corrupt than the people in power in the U.S. are capable of getting by with, and personally I am sick of all the third world losers blaming the U.S. because the countries they come from are such horrible messes.

It's bloody obvious that my statements about Muslim nations burnt your hide, but the sooner the people of the Middle East face up to the realities of their situation, the better chance they have of turning things around. Fantasizing about Iran becoming a super power to rival the U.S. is just lunacy.

If you have half a brain, after your emotions cool, you'll start to wake up the the reality of the message I am delivering.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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The fallacy in bush minor's and John McCain's assertions that we can win the war in Iraq is that there is nothing to win... its not a war, its an occupation and the only victory possible in an occupation is the supression of the population.

And to think that any government that we would install short of a puppet regime would want to accept permanent occupation is just plain foolish.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Japan and germany are nothing like Iraq, not one minute aspect of the Iraqi charade is comparitive to Germany/Japan.

I guess the point went straight over your head. ZOOM!!!!

A previous poster stated that rebuilding after a war had never worked before. And I said it did via Japan and Germany. You are totally moving the goal posts in order to make a lame point. The point is that it has worked in the past and can work again. Please focus.


Germany and Japans people were sick of war

And so are the Iraqi people, so what's your point?

You do realize the U.S. and allied forces are NOT fighting the Iraqi civilians right?


They threw the first stone

And so did Saddam. He invaded another country (Kuwait) and was planning on doing the same to Saudi Arabia next. Plus, Saddam ignored 10 years of UN sanction and constantly violated the no fly zones.
So again, what's your point?


Because it is US who is bringing the facism to their interiors.

Oh, that's just an absurd opinion.



Your example is so ignorant because you cannot see that Japan and Germany did exactly what America is doing, and both were thumped in the end.

Boy, do you have everything backwards.

It's really ignorant and pathetic!


Iraq is the modern day France, its people are resisting the foreign occupier even if it means death, because France and its riches belonged to the French, and the same goes for IRAQ!

Where do you get this info? "Opposite.com"??
Again, the U.S. and allied forces are NOT fighting the Iraqi people. They are fighting foreign terrorists who are not even Iraqi. Most are Iranian backed.

So please stop embarrassing yourself with this sort of nonesense.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by darkmaninperth
most Americans - and Whattheory is a prime example - see America as all wholesome goodness and Apple Pie.

Cool!
Thanks for the compliment.

Now go back to sticking your head in the sand.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
In WW2, the allies attacked and subdued the armed forces of countries that had attacked them first

Really?
When did Germany ever attack America. Using your flawed logic, I guess we should have just ignored them. Good call.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Did you know that for 7 years german snipers shot at our troops after the war was won. Did you know that 20 years later, some japanese still thought the war was on?
reply to post by stinkhorn
 


I had forgotten about that.

I am glad you brought that point up.

I personally believe we need to maintain a strong prescence in Iraq.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Let me preface my statement by first saying this: I love America, but I hate USA, Inc. I am in favor of pulling back from the world stage. Not complete isolationism, but something along Jeffersonian ideals...just stay out of foreign affairs. I would love to see our men and women come home from all corners of the world, take a break, and then get re-deployed along our borders. Let's get back to basics, people! We made our name through free enterprise, manufactoring, ingenuity, family, and faith. That's not THAT hard to get back to!



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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WATCH THIS VIDEO:

This is from last Christmas. It gives you some background to the BBC video.(which I am trying to find a US/Canadian link too)





[edit on 22-7-2008 by whiteraven]




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