It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

(update)With Unexpected Iraqi Withdrawal Demand, Bush Has Lost the War

page: 2
10
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I think Iran has the bomb.


I think you're right. And they probably got it from Russia or China. And I think we, as in our government and Israel, know it but aren't saying. Then again, if that's so, why are we messing with them so blatantly? Hell I just don't know but something stinks to high heaven.

Cuban Missile Crisis might be a pretty close analogy.




posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


I wonder if Mr. WhatTheory would provide his evidence to prove his points, last couple of times I discussed certain issues with him, he vanished lol. He has never backed up his claims like for example this thread hehe

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ownification
reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


I wonder if Mr. WhatTheory would provide his evidence to prove his points, last couple of times I discussed certain issues with him, he vanished lol. He has never backed up his claims like for example this thread hehe

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh, here we go.

Please, I guess 5 pages of debate and everyone going in circles is not good enough for you.

I made my points numerous times in that thread. You unfortunately just did not like my answers.

Good Lord, you do realize this forum does not revolve around YOU!



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:41 PM
link   
well once again you fail to provide evidence of me having incorrect assumptions.

threads revolve around no one, but when someone argues a point without even bothering to provide substance, i suppose its a pointless argument coming from that 'side'



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
well once again you fail to provide evidence of me having incorrect assumptions.

Ummm.......yes I did.

I did so by pointing out that your previous post with pictures is only your opinion and does not prove anything. And how have you proved that I am incorrect??


How does posting a picture of oil pipelines in Iraq with a caption which says, "the prize" prove that it's about oil? Answer: It does not. That is your assumption.

How does posting a picture of Bush at a desk with a caption which says, "The profiteers" prove that is correct? Answer: It does not. That is your opinion.

How does posting a picture of a little girl with a caption which says, "enemy combatant" prove that is the case? Answer: It does not. Again, your incorrect opinion.

How does posting a map of Baghdad only prove that the Shiites are somehow being run out of Iraq? Answer: It does not. This is your assumption again.

Do you get it now? You have proved nothing except point out your opinions and no facts. Good grief!


[edit on 21-7-2008 by WhatTheory]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:18 PM
link   
If the Iraqi government succeeds in standing on its own, and U.S. troops withdraw, that is a huge WIN for the U.S.. We declare complete victory and go home. At that point in time the U.S. will have achieved every goal, removal of Saddam and establishment of a new Iraqi representative Government. While the oil industry might prefer that the U.S. occupy Iraq from now on, that is not what the people of the U.S. want. The new Iraq government is highly unlikely, in my opinion, to turn power over to the Iranian Government, and Al Sadr's effort to make that happen will only lead to a continuing U.S. presence in the Middle East.

As far as Iran becoming a super power, the nation has no industry to speak of except oil. Talk about desperate wishing on the pro-Muslim groups. Iran peaked its oil production about a decade ago, in another twenty years they won't have enough oil to sell to keep their economy going, and they will sink back into obscurity. As alternative fuel sources begin to be economically competitive in a world where oil becomes ever more expensive to obtain and produce, the influence of the Middle East will decline greatly. Having gotten all this boom from oil, they failed to develop economies that could last beyond oil. Iran's pursuit of a Nuclear bomb is extremely foolish. All they do by this pursuit is build a wall that separates them from any realistic future.

Iran should be working on developing an economic plan that goes beyond oil. They should be trying to establish manufacturing centers and some niche in technology, not in taking over Iraq, very foolish on their part.

Iran's biggest problem is that technology will never flourish in a religious oppressive atmosphere. Islam is a giant chain with a giant iron ball tied around the neck of the Middle East.

You are trying to claim victory as your ship is sinking far out to sea, and your enemy is sailing away.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:27 PM
link   
I see your point...they win on all fronts,,,,Oil, Sadamm, and a liberated Iraq.

But who controls the liberated Iraq?

This is what Baer was pointing too!



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:41 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 


I love it


You are trying to claim victory as your ship is sinking far out to sea, and your enemy is sailing away.




its a bit like that... accept i think people confuse the ones sailing away with America.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:56 PM
link   
My entire problem with this concept is that we never fought this "war" as a war that we were trying to win. We stalemated this entire operation the day we put ground troops in with the intent of being kind and gentle in our approach to something, warfare, which should be anything but kind and gentle. At that moment GWB might as well have just waved a little white flag, handed out rainbow peace stickers, and brought our troops back home.

In a war you don't bankrupt yourself trying to rebuild your enemy's nation nor do you allow your soldiers to die while protecting the people you started out fighting against. We did lose the Iraq war... we lost it when George Herbert Walker Bush decided to bring our entire operation back stateside when Hussein drew back out of Kuwait instead of diverting everything we had capible of dropping an ordinance over Baghdad and not letting up until the Iraqi people presented us with either a bound and shackled Saddam Hussein or his corpse.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:57 PM
link   
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how it's possible to lose a war to a country that ISN'T INVOLVED in the war.

This is just deflection. The US can't face the fact that they screwed up, and are looking for a scapegoat.

Iran isn't a superpower.
Iran isn't in this war.
If you've lost the war, it's YOUR fault. Not Iran's.

We've warned you from day one, you CANNOT win a war on terrorism. War breeds terrorism, it doesn't stop it. And now that the US has lost... they're blaming someone else? Well, isn't that just typical of them.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by whiteraven

He called Iran a "The MiddleEast Superpower".

[edit on 21-7-2008 by whiteraven]



Please


He must have seen this new photo of their missile launch:





Iran might have a big Army, but they are far from a true world super power.
"They are buying technology from Russia" - Yeah technology from the 70's and 80's. Our technology is far superior, hell one Raptor could take on 5 of their best fighter jets. I even saw a special on history channel where one took out around 11 F-16 in a mock fight.

They don't have a chance against us. They don't even have the resources to launch an attack against our country if they wanted to; so how could they be a superpower?

[edit on 21/7/08 by xstealth]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by xstealth
Please


He must have seen this new photo of their missile launch:



Now that is funny right there.

And no, this is not a one line post.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by WhatTheory]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:19 PM
link   
reply to post by xstealth
 


lol, that was a pretty funny pic. Where'd you get it?

And yeah, they don't have the necessary firepower to be a threat to the US... so why should the US spend so much time worrying about them?

Clearly it has nothing to do with a "threatening nature" and everything to do with what the US can acquire in Iran.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by xstealth


They don't have a chance against us. They don't even have the resources to launch an attack against our country if they wanted to; so how could they be a superpower?

[edit on 21/7/08 by xstealth]


Any country with the ability to make bio/chem weapons and sneak them across porous borders may not be a superpower but they can reek havoc
on any superpower they choose.

In todays world nukes are obsolete. An engineered, single virus could wipe out the majority of a population of any country.

"Not with a bang, but a whimper"



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:24 PM
link   
The U.S. had already lost the war in Iraq because it's a war you can't win. You can't just go into a country, overthrow it's leader, introduce democracy and expect it to go smoothly. Too much resistance.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by MacDonagh
The U.S. had already lost the war in Iraq because it's a war you can't win. You can't just go into a country, overthrow it's leader, introduce democracy and expect it to go smoothly. Too much resistance.

Of course you can win. It worked in the past, ie Japan & Germany. Hell, we still have troops there. However, you are correct that it does not always go smoothly but it can be done and has been done.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:30 PM
link   
reply to post by xstealth
 







Yep...that is true.

We are the best...we have never been put to the test.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:47 PM
link   
I believe at this stage of the game we need to keep troops in Iraq.

I don't care if you are Rep. Or Dem. we need to keep troops there as we did in South Korea, Germany and Japan.

The boys that died in Iraq and Afghanistan deserve the honour of our country finishing the job they started.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by MacDonagh
The U.S. had already lost the war in Iraq because it's a war you can't win. You can't just go into a country, overthrow it's leader, introduce democracy and expect it to go smoothly. Too much resistance.

Of course you can win. It worked in the past, ie Japan & Germany. Hell, we still have troops there. However, you are correct that it does not always go smoothly but it can be done and has been done.


But Japan and Germany were more open to change and acknowledged that they were in the wrong. Can you see Iraq apologising for the cleansing of the Kurds? I certainly don't and the less said about the Sunnis and Shiites, the better. It's been 1200 years and they still can't get along? Absurd.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:56 PM
link   
reply to post by MacDonagh
 



Yet if we pull out now what have we won?

Nothing. It becomes a collosal black mark no matter how you look at it.

If we continue to have a prescense in Iraq then we can at least have a powerful voice in the neighbourhood.




top topics



 
10
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join