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The Dark Knight Social Commentary

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posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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*WARNING SPOILER ALERT!!!***

If you have not seen this movie and do not want to know what happened in it, then do not read further.





So I saw Dark Knight yesterday and was "blown away".


Primarily on the commentary within. For example:

1. Is it ok to Break the Laws to get a criminal to talk? This was covered during the scene where a chair is laid against the door knob so as to stop anyone from getting in. Then our hero lays into the criminal.

2. Is spying on the public a good thing? Evidently, it's ok as long as you are Morgan Freeman. I walked away from this thinking... that the answer is "As long as you trust whoever it is who is spying on you, then I guess it's ok, and who better to trust than Morgan Obama... I mean Freeman"

3. Can Democracy save us from ourselves? Appearently in Gotham it can. In the scene where the people have a choice to blow up the prisoners, and the prisoners have a choice to blow up the citizens, this spoke loud and clear.

4. Can the true hero (the one we deserve) really be who we think the Bad guy is, while the bad guy is revered as a hero? This one really tossed me for a loop.

Your thoughts?




posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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Yeah it is a very deep movie on many levels.This movie kinda messed with my head a little bit
.I was just expecting to see a fun action packed super hero move thats it.Yes it was fun action packed but I didnt expect it to make me think the way it did.Also the ending threw me for a loop.The right to privacy,crime,moral choices, how a good man can reach a breaking point..its all there.Great movie.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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I noticed that quickly. Ledger's character represented the terrorist we have faced during such attacks as the one on 9/11. Batman was like a CIA agent, above the law and using means above the law. The sonar use was awfully telling. I think that is why it hit me so hard, just too close to home on some of those issues.

"Some men want to watch the world burn" was it?

This cemented the message underlined for me. The terrorist are not afraid of the big bad US or even death, they are apart of an insane holly war that wants to watch the world burn.

I still disagree heavily with US citizens being spied on but I don't think the movie was trying to persuade people to accept being spied on, it simply examined the morals and ethics of such a situation.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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I always knew it. Bush is Batman.
He's hated because he's strong enough to be hated, while still doing whats necessary to defeat the jokers of the world.

[edit on 7/21/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 


Yep, I'm with you on that one. I didn't get any message from the film saying it was OK. It was refreshing to see a movie which touches on socially relevant issues without actually coming to a conclusion or attempting to send a specific message.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
I always knew it. Bush is Batman.
He's hated because he's strong enough to be hated, while still doing whats necessary to defeat the jokers of the world.

[edit on 7/21/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]


Actually, the part with Morgan Freeman in it made me really think.

Keep in mind, Batman didn't want the power of surviellance, he gave it to Fox.


I don't have any problem with Luscious Fox using surviellance on all of us, but wouldn't trust Bush and company at all. Not sure why that is, but it became obvious to me, that I wanted Batman to win at all costs, but I wouldn't have trusted Harvey Dent with the same power.

That being said, it became less an issue of priniciple for me and more of an issue of morals, if that makes any sense.


I thought back, and wondered... "What if the Bush WH didn't come off as bumbling fools, would I have had so much of an issue with tactics that they use?"

For one, Batman gave the power of surviellance to someone who not only thought that much power was wrong to have, but also didn't want it.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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the dark knight...oh the "dark knight"

i was expecting somthing about the d4rk kn1ght....anyway i havent seen it yet,but it will be full of subliminal messages just like spiderman 3.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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I'm with you Quazga this movie really struck me. I started this thread
a few days ago about the disgust of what we as humans have become and are we headed for self destruction.

Note: Some people misread my intention because I referenced to an old skunk works thread, therefore, that is where I ended up.


I was taken aback by how psychologically affecting the movie was with many interweavings of subtle conspiratorial nuances throughout.

it was definitely eye opening.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by anyone
 


Thats where you and I differ. I don't see the self-destruction piece in the Batman show. In the end, the Human Spirit triumphed.


Plus, on your thread, I didn't see you mentioning anything about these social issues that I brought out, which is why I started a new thread altogether.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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That's why this movie is so complex, has so much depth. Nothing like I expected to be honest. There aren't many fills that question good and evil with out drilling a campy, one sided message in your head. I don't blame other filmmakers, it is hard to accomplish what this film did. A true rarity.

It kind of saddens me that the message and its strangeth will be dampered by Ledger's death, and people wanting to believe it is only well received because of his death. I think his death also over shadowed some of the other amazing performances, but the Joker was the star thinks to the writer and director completely re-working the cartoonish figure into a sadomasochistic psycho-path. Bravo!



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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very very good movie. weird it reminded me of another young actor's early death. co-incidence? or guy make-up is jinx?
here's brandon lee's "the crow" (he died in a shooting stunt, supposedly blank bullets)



[edit on 21-7-2008 by beastamerica]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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They finally brought back the original Joker from the 1940's and Heath Ledger played him perfectly. The Joker is a sociopath who feeds off chao's and enjoys it. The other Jokers were just harmless tricksters. And if I was in charge of stopping somebody that evil then hey' I'll do whatever it takes to stop him. Wire taps, torture etc... Batman in the real comic books was not exactly a perfect citizen either. He was very revengeful and didn't care to take a life if it helped him get the bad guys. I'm just glad they brought back the true meaning of Batman and the Joker was awesome.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by Quazga
 


No biggie. Everyone has their different takes on things. It is o.k. if some thought my thread was stinky.
I do hope that more is unraveled from the intricacies of this movie.

One question, one that I raised on my thread as well, did anyone else think the tattoos on the "tattooed prisoner" played by Tommy Lister looked "alien'like"?



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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Or perhaps the Joker represents the NWO who plays the world against each other while they further their own agenda. They are already the richest people in the world so money isn't what motivates them, so therefore their cause is of something higher (and unknown). Perhaps it is power, or perhaps it is just to "watch the world burn". The NWO is a relentless machine that causes chaos in the world while at the same time erecting their own order (like the whole Middle East fiasco; "terrorists hate our freedom!"; EU; NAU)

On the other hand, Batman could represent the conspiracy theorists. Outcast of society that nobody will believe to be heroes. People who need someone official to speak for them (Harvey Dent) so that the masses will listen. There's a constant battle between the Joker and Batman for the minds of the masses, with the Joker wanting the masses to hate Batman (conspiracy theorists), and with Batman wanting the masses to just start standing up against crime (like the NWO criminals).

In the end, when the Joker (NWO) sets the people up to blow each other up (WWIII), good sense triumphs, or at least on the prisoner's ship (non-mainstream crowd). In the civilian ship (sheeple ship), it was not good will but instead fear. They did nothing, basically, while the prisoners actively tossed out the trigger.

There are probably more connections but it's really what you want to see. It's also definitely a Man vs. Self conflict. With the Joker representing the dark side of man. Batman won against this force, but Harvey Dent lost.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by italkyoulisten
 


An interesting way of viewing the film, could definitely be interprated that way.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:24 AM
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I agree with The Joker's belief that once you remove the trappings of civilization people will do everything they can to save themselves.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by Quazga
So I saw Dark Knight yesterday and was "blown away".


As was I. I have never left a movie theater so shaken, so inspired. And was looking to see if anyone had started a thread like this so thank you



1. Is it ok to Break the Laws to get a criminal to talk? This was covered during the scene where a chair is laid against the door knob so as to stop anyone from getting in. Then our hero lays into the criminal.

I think absolutely. I mean these people are animals, so they have forfeited the right to be treated humanely.


2. Is spying on the public a good thing? Evidently, it's ok as long as you are Morgan Freeman. I walked away from this thinking... that the answer is "As long as you trust whoever it is who is spying on you, then I guess it's ok,


Absolutely and I would want to know the answer to this question. Has the government ever violated that trust? Have they used the spying to detain innocent people? I think the answer is no and I believe they can be trusted.(btw they have been monitoring phone calls since phones were invented.)


and who better to trust than Morgan Obama... I mean Freeman"

I don't think this movie was a pro Obama piece at all. In fact, I believe it portrays a very anti Obama since he is alot softer on terrorist leaders and wants to end the fight. I think its more like "Morgan (insert major phone companies)"


3. Can Democracy save us from ourselves? Appearently in Gotham it can. In the scene where the people have a choice to blow up the prisoners, and the prisoners have a choice to blow up the citizens, this spoke loud and clear.


I think in this next election, people will make that choice


4. Can the true hero (the one we deserve) really be who we think the Bad guy is, while the bad guy is revered as a hero? This one really tossed me for a loop.


America has the hero they deserve but like the movie they throw him under the bus when the going gets tough. But in my opinion this hero will never get a thank you because he will never ask for one.

I think this film will make people question what is right and what is wrong. Are there people in the world that would just like to see the world burn? If you look at the present situation, I think the answer is clear



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke

Originally posted by Quazga
So I saw Dark Knight yesterday and was "blown away".


As was I. I have never left a movie theater so shaken, so inspired. And was looking to see if anyone had started a thread like this so thank you




Anytime, I too looked for a thread that covered these topics. In the following fiew lines, I'd like to respond to some of your points.




1. Is it ok to Break the Laws to get a criminal to talk? This was covered during the scene where a chair is laid against the door knob so as to stop anyone from getting in. Then our hero lays into the criminal.

I think absolutely. I mean these people are animals, so they have forfeited the right to be treated humanely.


See, I think that the Joker's point is that we are ALL Animals at heart. The question that I would have, what made these people turn into animals, and is it fair to treat animals with complete disregard.

I haven't came to a conclusion myself, but when you mentioned the animals reason, other issues were raised in my mind.






2. Is spying on the public a good thing? Evidently, it's ok as long as you are Morgan Freeman. I walked away from this thinking... that the answer is "As long as you trust whoever it is who is spying on you, then I guess it's ok,


Absolutely and I would want to know the answer to this question. Has the government ever violated that trust? Have they used the spying to detain innocent people? I think the answer is no and I believe they can be trusted.(btw they have been monitoring phone calls since phones were invented.)


Yep they have been monitoring phones since they were invented. But only with just cause and FISA court approval.

That being said. I'd have to agree with you here. For example, the monitoring of phone calls which leave the country for some reason doesn't scare me at all. It makes good sense if you ask me.

Also, I don't think that in the monitoring of these calls, that they are even worried about the pot head calling his dealer, or the conspiracy theorist claiming 9/11 was an inside job. I think "they" are looking for threats to national security.

I also think it is a slippery slope though, and does have the potential for being abused, and therefore should be openly subject to oversight.






and who better to trust than Morgan Obama... I mean Freeman"

I don't think this movie was a pro Obama piece at all. In fact, I believe it portrays a very anti Obama since he is alot softer on terrorist leaders and wants to end the fight. I think its more like "Morgan (insert major phone companies)"


I agree it wasn't a pro-obama piece, but when I saw that scene, my brain made the switch, (which is what inspired this thread to begin with), and I realized that I myself would feel more comfortable with Obama monitoring everyone than Bush... I don't know why, and I don't state that it would be any different, I just felt that way during that scene, and found it odd that My position changed based on WHO was watching.

However, I don't see Obama as soft on terrorism at all. But that is simply my own opinion... back to your great response...






3. Can Democracy save us from ourselves? Appearently in Gotham it can. In the scene where the people have a choice to blow up the prisoners, and the prisoners have a choice to blow up the citizens, this spoke loud and clear.


I think in this next election, people will make that choice


4. Can the true hero (the one we deserve) really be who we think the Bad guy is, while the bad guy is revered as a hero? This one really tossed me for a loop.


America has the hero they deserve but like the movie they throw him under the bus when the going gets tough. But in my opinion this hero will never get a thank you because he will never ask for one.

I think this film will make people question what is right and what is wrong. Are there people in the world that would just like to see the world burn? If you look at the present situation, I think the answer is clear



I think this last piece of your response is as politically blinded as my slight attempt at humor with Morgan Obama.

Anyhow, thanks for the very thoughtful response!

btw, did you hear that Batman (Chrstian Bale) was picked up on assault charges! Crazy!



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by mike dangerously
I agree with The Joker's belief that once you remove the trappings of civilization people will do everything they can to save themselves.


I agree and I love how they showed this truth.

The Joker constantly gives people choices. Do the men in the bank have to kill each other? No, but they are greedy.

Does the comissioner have a choice in leaving the Joker in a room with Batman to be un-lawfully beaten? Yes, but he chooses the easiest and most brutal way of getting the information he desperately needs at the time.

Batman could have stopped the killing and turned himself in, but he doesn't.

I'm not sure what I think of the boat scene, part of me is more inclined to think they would have blown each other to bits.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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A more important question: can people tell the difference between comic books and real life?

It's not meant to be real



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