The Sociopaths vs. the rest of us

I came to the theory today that the Freemasons and other similar secret societies are in fact groups of people (mostly men, but some women too) that are sociopathic and within their circles they make up the rules the rest of us have to live by.

There's a book called The Sociopath Next Door, that says 4% of people are sociopathic (meaning they basically can't feel complex emotions) and the other 96% of us have a conscience, so are more or less "good people" even if some of these 96% obviously would be assholes.

Is the struggle between good and evil the battle of power between the 4% of people who are power-seeking and loveless and the 96% who are passionate but have a heart?

If so, what is the way of making peace between the two? I think the struggle between Power and the rest of us is that sociopaths don't consider other people to be human, and we don't consider them to be human. They con us, we put them to death. Perhaps the only way to world peace is some sort of understanding between these two kindreds of human beings.

I would think that given your "statistics" ,you would be a little more open-minded about who was a sociopath. Granted, I do not know much about the inner workings of Masonry, but I do know several Free Masons of 32nd degree (one being my grandpa) and they were and are damn good men. Who knows for sure what goes on within the higher eschalons of any institution? I do; however, think that labeling an entire group of people sociopathic is a little...bigoted, perhaps?
Do you know for sure they are sociopathic? No. Do I know for sure they aren't? No, but one does not have the right to judge anything until one has walked in another's shoes and has the objective and subjective information available.

It is an interesting proposition in the sense that no one knows for sure what hold these groups have and have had over the lives of us "commoners" though.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I came to the theory today that the Freemasons and other similar secret societies are in fact groups of people (mostly men, but some women too) that are sociopathic and within their circles they make up the rules the rest of us have to live by.

That is quite lovely, but do you have any evidence for this theory that you 'came up' with?

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
There's a book called The Sociopath Next Door, that says 4% of people are sociopathic (meaning they basically can't feel complex emotions) and the other 96% of us have a conscience, so are more or less "good people" even if some of these 96% obviously would be assholes.

And the source for that statistic is? It would be really hard to come up with that without a extensive survey, which most book authors do not have the money to do.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
Is the struggle between good and evil the battle of power between the 4% of people who are power-seeking and loveless and the 96% who are passionate but have a heart?

The problem here is that you just associated "good" with non-sociopaths and "bad" with sociopaths. Where is your evidence for this? Sociopaths have a mental disorder that distorts their reality, that does not make them evil. Just because someone is not a sociopath does not mean they are "good." I can think of lots of criminals and people who have done horrible things who have never been classified of having any disorder.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
If so, what is the way of making peace between the two? I think the struggle between Power and the rest of us is that sociopaths don't consider other people to be human, and we don't consider them to be human. They con us, we put them to death. Perhaps the only way to world peace is some sort of understanding between these two kindreds of human beings.

As I believe your theory is wrong, these questions are moot. Being a sociopath does not make you a different type of human being. Its a mental disorder. Also, there is no "great struggle" - this is a plot device used by those who weave conspiracies and those who spread populist propaganda. The only way to do either of these things is to create a battle by pitting one group against another.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Sociopaths have a mental disorder that distorts their reality, that does not make them evil. Just because someone is not a sociopath does not mean they are "good." I can think of lots of criminals and people who have done horrible things who have never been classified of having any disorder.

That is very true.Whether you are a satanic mason lizard reptilian or not, that statement is very correct and many lack the logic to understand it.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I came to the theory today that the Freemasons and other similar secret societies are in fact groups of people (mostly men, but some women too) that are sociopathic and within their circles they make up the rules the rest of us have to live by.

See, I think the fundamental flaw with your argument is right there in the opening statement. A true sociopath doesn't care enough about "the rest of us" to bother coming up with rules that WE have to live by. A sociopath is going to live by his own rules, to be certain... but it would be against his nature to try to instill that upon anyone else, because by his very nature he doesn't CARE about anyone else. A sociopath might kill without remorse simply because he doesn't believe there's anything morally or ethically wrong with murder, and he can justify it to himself adequately. The theory that the Ruling Class, the Freemasons, or any other shadow government is simultaneously sociopathic AND defining the status quo is ludicrous. It's like saying all the laws we follow were written by anarchists. The two couldn't be more opposite.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I came to the theory today that the Freemasons and other similar secret societies are in fact groups of people (mostly men, but some women too) that are sociopathic and within their circles they make up the rules the rest of us have to live by.

That's funny, because I remember hearing in a sociology class that it is reckoned maybe 25% of people obey laws because they have been fully socialized, and believe in their hearts that obeying the law is the right thing to do.

That leaves 75% of people who don't break the law more or less only because they fear punishment.

And, there are different levels of law. I go a little bit over the speed limit every time I drive, but I get really pissed when people fail to use their turn signals. I mean, come on! It's right there on the steering column, easily within reach of your fingers. One little flick up or down could make life a whole lot better for other drivers. So, there is an example of someone who literally will not lift a finger to help his fellow man or woman.

I'm sorry, what was the question?

"I can think of lots of criminals and people who have done horrible things who have never been classified of having any disorder... Being a sociopath does not make you a different type of human being. Its a mental disorder. "

That's true. Non sociopathic people still don't have hearts often. It really isn't about 'having a heart' though, or being a different 'type of "human BEING"'. Sociopaths do not have a conscience, no voice inside moving them against wrong doing. I remember; i own that book. It is interesting. But nonsociopaths do awful things anyway, and doing awful things has nothing to do with "having a heart." Being a sociopath may not make you a 'different type of "human BEING"', just con people and people otherwise who do what they will without the voice inside telling them "don't do that". Sociopaths may be very dangerous, i am not denying that. But possessed by that disorder or not, humans are still human; people still people.

Think for a second, think about the way people use the phrase "human (being)"; three main uses:
~"I'm a human BEING!" --people say this when whining, rather than just stating that they have reached their limit and taking care of themselves to draw themselves out of the over-the-limit space, they have to say that they are human BEINGS, something great and fastastic, they are human beings and they take priority.
~"I'm only human!!!" --Usually used in times of guilt, like cheating or, well, other wrongdoings against other human people. (there is a purpose to the overuse of the word "human", within the last use on the list. But this use,) It is saying that they did something supposedly wrong, but they did it in response to the error of another person. They are only human, and they have needs that weren't satisfied, or they are ONLY human, and they couldn't be expected to to do otherwise because they have faults. Quit whining about humanity and accept personal fault. There are actions that the use of the word "humanity" will not excuse.
~"You're not human!" (One overuse purpose rests here --this is commonly said in shock, when someone does something horrible. Manslaughter, for instance. The thing is, each of the people saying these things are human. No matter what side of the statements (i listed) the people are on, they are all human. All. Not some, all. The murderer is a human. The sociopath is a human. They're human. And the only different thing between a sociopath commiting a crime or murder and a person doing the same (who is not actually a sociopath) is the absence or presence of the conscience telling the individual no, or not being there at all. That is thee only difference. They're both going to jail.

"Originally posted by Donnie Darko
If so, what is the way of making peace between the two? I think the struggle between Power and the rest of us is that sociopaths don't consider other people to be human, and we don't consider them to be human. They con us, we put them to death. Perhaps the only way to world peace is some sort of understanding between these two kindreds of human beings. "

I have to comment on that. It isn't about who thinks who is human. The phrase "I'm a human BEING" might mot exist if people had any respect for eachother- or at least if they had more interest in others; they put themselves in top priority, with what seems no care for whether others have needs and limits. The phrase "I'm only human" might not exist if there wasn't need for instant gratification, rather than an actual will to find the end to a problem. And this "you're not human!" If that's the case, how many sentient beings on earth are actually great big orangutans in human constumes? Or grays? It doesn't matter what people think of eachother. People still do wrong without accepting fault, and they have since their existance. In older times, people used to call eachother "demons" at sight of extreme wrong, and still today, thoughts circulate that "real human BEINGS could never, ever murder!" But they do, and they are not possessed, or half-demon hybrids (I assume:lol Non-sociopaths are dangerous. But so are people otherwise. It is just a matter of good and bad. And the good should be free, and the bad will be caught- or should be.
So, though my post may offend people here, and though a good many of you may not agree with me, there is one last thing: you say the following:

"Also, there is no 'great struggle' - this is a plot device used by those who weave conspiracies and those who spread populist propaganda. The only way to do either of these things is to create a battle by pitting one group against another."

You may not agree with me considering all i just typed, but i agree with you. hypothetically, no, there would be no 'struggle' between the people controlling all and the people being controlled. The controllers have - well, control; there would be no struggle. I'm not a conspiracy theorist (as i am a cynic on various things) but it is my comment that hypothetically, you would be right, and there would never be any struggle. But even this last comment, i suppose, it is just still me being cynical.

Damn some hostile responses, how can I reply.

You're right, there are plenty of melancholic (non-sociopathic) people who are very nasty too. What I'm saying is these people have SOME good in them, while a sociopath does not.

I don't blame sociopaths for being "evil" actually, they have no choice, and I think they're very miserable people. The disorder is very tragic.

Not all Masons of course are sociopaths, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them were (along with a lot of people in our government) because the sociopath naturally seeks power and what better way than politics!

As for the figure, I'm skeptical of it myself. The author of the book didn't conduct the study, I think it's probably from somewhere else.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
Damn some hostile responses, how can I reply.

I don't see anyone that has been hostile here in my opinion. Questioning the validity of your theory - or anyones, for that matter - is not hostile, its denying ignorance.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
You're right, there are plenty of melancholic (non-sociopathic) people who are very nasty too. What I'm saying is these people have SOME good in them, while a sociopath does not.

Again you have attributed "evil" to someone who is a sociopath. It doesn't matter if you try to soften the blow that they have "no choice." Sociopaths are people with mental disorders who need professional help, they are not evil at any level. They are sick. Are there evil sociopaths? Sure, just as there are evil people. But its because of something else, not a mental illness.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
Not all Masons of course are sociopaths, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them were (along with a lot of people in our government) because the sociopath naturally seeks power and what better way than politics!

You have also attributed everyone in government and the masons (which, by the way, very few are in government) as being evil. I work in government. I am pursuing a PhD in the administration of government. I have no desire for power, I have a desire for an efficient and effective government. But you have just said I am evil and a sociopath. I sincerely beg to differ, as would I am sure millions of government employees.

I am also a mason, as are quite a number of people in the US - most of whom do not work in government. If you are going to make massive sweeping generalizations and accuse vast groups of people of being evil and a mental disorder, your really going to have to provide some evidence of our evil doing.

reply to post by applebiter


Off - topic: I hear ya. Even worse than not signaling (to me) are those that signal AS they are turning, as though the effort to reach over that looong two inches is just to much to bear prior to the turn. "I can SEE you are turning, its TOO late to pre-advise ME!@!!" rant, rant, rave.

On-topic: So, my father (Mason) and Mother (Eastern Star) are both sociopaths. hmmmmm. Good to know. I'd never have gleaned a CLUE of that prior to today. I suppose that makes me a sort of de facto sociopath. Here all this time, I thought I was merely eccentric. phooey.

Nothing left to do but find a secret society with my own proclivities.

Not ALL secret society members are sociopaths, a lot of them seem to be though.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
Not ALL secret society members are sociopaths, a lot of them seem to be though.

No, a lot of them do not seem to be. If you have any evidence of this please provide it. There is no reason to think this in the normal course of things.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
the sociopath naturally seeks power

Again, where do you get that idea? Sociopathy can be broken down into a few distinctions.

Dissocial Personality Disorder

• Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.
  
• Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
  
• Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
  
• Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
  
• Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
  
• Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.
  
• Persistent irritability.

Antisocial Personality Disorder

• Persistent lying or stealing
  
• Recurring difficulties with the law
  
• Tendency to violate the rights and boundaries of others
  
• Substance abuse
  
• Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights
  
• A persistent agitated or depressed feeling (dysphoria)
  
• Inability to tolerate boredom
  
• Disregard for the safety of self or others
  
• A childhood diagnosis of conduct disorders - this is not a symptom but "a history of"
  
• Lack of remorse, related to hurting others
  
• Superficial charm
  
• Impulsiveness
  
• A sense of extreme entitlement
  
• Inability to make or keep friends
  
• Recklessness, impulsivity
  
• People with a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder often experience difficulties with authority figures.

Psychopathy

Factor1: Aggressive narcissism

• Glibness / superficial charm
  
• Grandiose sense of self-worth
  
• Pathological lying
  
• Cunning / manipulative
  
• Lack of remorse or guilt
  
• Shallow
  
• Callous / lack of empathy
  
• Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor2: Socially deviant lifestyle

• Need for stimulation / proneness to boredom
  
• Parasitic lifestyle
  
• Poor behavioral control
  
• Lack of realistic, long-term goals
  
• Impulsivity
  
• Irresponsibility
  
• Juvenile delinquency
  
• Early behavior problems
  
• Revocation of conditional release

So yeah, however you cut it a sociopath will think he's better than authority, but there's not indication he'd ever want to BECOME authority, because he doesn't play with others well enough to play by their rules and actually GET any power.

[edit on 7/21/2008 by JoshNorton]

Can we name names? That would be great!

Alex Jones obtained a copy of "the list" of deviants:

www.infowars.net...

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
There's a book called The Sociopath Next Door, that says 4% of people are sociopathic (meaning they basically can't feel complex emotions) and the other 96% of us have a conscience, so are more or less "good people" even if some of these 96% obviously would be assholes.

That is really oversimplyfying it. Some level of sociopathic behavior (seeing others as objects and not sympathizing with them) is very ingrained human behavior.

I do believe sociopaths are on a sliding scale. Some estimates say up to 30% of the male population has sociopathic traits, i think it is 5% of the females but I do not recall.

Some are extreme, and have absolutely no real feelings for other beings at all, they are on the far end of the scale. Others are normally decent people but they turn on that mindset when the situation calls for it (war, home invasions, etc...) And many are inbetween.

People tend to think sociopaths are always the extreme. In fact they are quite common. Most have good survival instincts and obey the laws, many excel in business. They are everywhere. The smart ones learn to fake feelings for others even when they don't feel it.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by Sonya610]

this is the problem one encounters when painting with a broad brush. I recongize that my response was relational to my own personal experience, and perhaps somewhat sarcastic, but I didn't mean it to be sarcastic. I meant it to invoke the idea of real people. People that have children and lives and dreams, and are not -- to anyone's knowledge around them -- e-vile NWO lizard ELITE creatures. They are people.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Hm. I probably score a little bit higher than desired in Factor 2 Psychopathy.

Nobody's perfect.

Huh, that i know of, I've never really interacted with any Masons, except here on the board. I do know a lovely lady who's active in the Eastern Star, and her husband's a Mason. I know and am related to a good few government employess. Generally speaking, I'm mopre sociapathic than they are.
I have, however, known a few sociapaths, and the grand plot you're trying to come up with doesn't stick. Simply put, sociapaths don't stick together, and they don't particularly favor order, or rules for that matter.
Now, sweeping generallizatations aside, since more Masons are active in this thread than you've named, or made an example of, care to eplain some more?

I am the daughter, sister and ex-wife of a sociopath. Sadly, my 10 year old daughter is exhibiting many of the same behaviors of a sociopath and has already been diagnosed with conduct disorder.

My mother, whom I like to refer to as "Star" was the cruelest, most callous person on earth. Out of her 3 children, it was her eldest, my brother who inherited her sociopathic gene. As a kid and until my teen years, she was the most heartless, cruel woman on earth. She went from man to man, who were financially well off sucking the life out of them until their pockets were empty. She was very wity, charming, very intelligent, but this empty human being who could care less about her children, who like these "things" to her that only got in her way, but benefited her in some forms when it came to getting child support.

My brother, from an early age was in and out of juvenile facilities. He is in prison to this day, serving time for burglary, which is always what his crimes consisted of. The darkest thing I remember about him is when I was like 7 years old he stole a dog and found neighborhood cats that he threw at the dog for the dog to rip apart, while me and my other brother stood in complete horror crying and begging him to stop.

Like a moth to a light, I fell in love with one. I knew that he was cheating on me, but I couldn't prove it. Even when a few women confronted me in the neighborhood about him trying to pick up on them, I would confront him, only for him to shrug it off and tell me that they were liars. He would never admit the truth. He was always without a job, would disappear all day saying he was looking for work. I left him when my daughter turned 6 weeks old, I finally had enough. I guess motherhood helped me realize that I could not have my daughter growing up with the lies. He simply moved in with a woman he was already cheating on me with, who he had been giving an alias name to. She had his child, thinking his name was something totally different, until I told her. I recently found out that 1 year into our marriage, he conceived a child with another woman. I gave birth to our child 2 years later, never knowing about this other child until recently. I allowed him to name our daughter, come to find out just last year, he named my daughter after the woman he was cheating on me with. I bet he gets great satisfaction out of knowing he made me look like a fool. Our circle of friends never told me about his indiscretions, because he would tell them that I was crazy and evil and he would even go behind my back and tell some of our friend's wives some of our bedtime discussions about secrets they told me! He had and still has everyone fooled.

My daughter started exhibiting symptoms of ADHD and a learning disability at age 6. She has recently been diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. She steals on a daily basis my personal belongings, food and whatever else she can get her hands on. Her theft is not limited to me. I can't take her to anyone's home or else she will find a way to steal whatever she can get her hands on, even if it's in their bathroom. It's all about pure self gratification to her without the least bit concern of others or consequences. Discipline and threats to not work with her. She simply does what she wants without regarding any rule. If I lock something up, she pries open the lock, if I take something she has stolen from me, she steals it back. Last year, she drowned my poodle on purpose without any remorse whatsoever. She also has tried to lead my toddler to his demise by putting her meds in his toy box, which he ate and had to be taken to the hospital. I am currently in the process of tyring to get her into a permament treatment facility for sociopathic, excuse me, Opppositional Defiant Disorder children like her. Her next diagnosis will be Anti-Social personality disorder and lastly when she turns 18, liberal America will finally call her what they already know she is: a sociopath.

I would say that the percentage of sociopaths is much higher. Imagine a test given to all humans that, in the cultural context of the person being tested, allowed each person to choose between personal gain at the expense of others and "doing the right thing" at the expense of personal gain. How many do you suppose would do the right thing?