Survive yourself?

reply to post by KGBmaster


First thing I would do is study this thread. Its a long one but read it all there is a ton of good advise to make life in a wrecked city almost bareable.

What to do when you just cant leave (city Survival)

Truly there may not be as many bad guys left as you think there might be. They need food as well.

Hope that helps


[edit on 22-7-2008 by angryamerican]

People, thanks for your replies, your knowledge, intellect & answers all enlighten me, in reply to DanTanna (spelling?) I think you misjudged my original intentions from my first post.

You can have all the survival equipment you want mate, but if you don't want to survive then you won't !! Simple as that.

When most folk face a true live or die situation, they quit!!! Survival may be an inbuilt mechanism in the human soul, but through circumstance & lifestyle? they will not succeed that goal!

People have become lazy, imcomptent, no ones know whats round the corner, equipment is good and its useful but you need to WANT to survive.

You might say you do, but imagine yourself in incredible hardship, its a LOT easier for most people to quit and give in aka DIE, we shall see, whos left and who has been eaten!

Survival is nothing to do with preparation or equipment, well it is, but its all to do with mindset, does that clear up the point I was trying to make?

reply to post by Death_Kron


I think you may be confusing a few issues here.

Almost everyone will want to live initially in a ''survival'' situation. Not everyone will though. Some will panic, some will just sit down and wait, some will think calmly, some will lead, some will blindly follow, some will sacrifice themselves for others to live and some will give up and wait for the enevitable.

What you are failing to see is that the people that are interested in survivalist subjects are not the ones that are going to give up at the first hurdle. They are going to be the ones that can view ''the situation'' in a different light, because they are prepared psychologically and are backed up by their knowledge and skills of survival techniques. There will be some that will revel in the situation.

This is not a critisism, but it may be a good idea to read some of the stories of extreme survival situations ....... you may be surprised on how resilient man really is.

I mentioned this on another forum but I will mention it again here.

I am reading a absolutely facinationg book called: The Unthinkable, Who survives disasters and why.

It goes into this very premise. That people don't respond to stressful situations like they think they are going too.

it gives detailed accounts on what people really think and feel during this situations.

The number one lesson seems to be: listen to your gut first. Despite what you have been "taught".

That you are your own first line of defense, and too much money and training is put into emt personel, when people need to be trained also.

very few people in the WTC actually knew where the stairwells were, or how to get to them.


That people on planes crashing into the ocean pre-inflate their vests instead of waiting till in the water which actually greatly hinders them and the people around them. Things like that.

Knowledge is power, and by actually understanding how and why things happen, can help increase our chance of survival.

The author gives an example of how when on a pre-flight, the attendants tell you to put your oxygen mask on first, and then your children.

But they don't say why.

Because they don't want to scare you.

But basically without cabin pressure, you pass out in 15 seconds. So if you put it on yoru child first, like many of us would, you won't have time to put yours on and still remain conscious to take care of your child.

It seems like common sense, but many people don't realize this.

The book also goes into detail about the time warp some people experience, like things completely slowing down. (like the Matrix scene with the bullets) or the blanks in memory, and the selective hearing.

that the very first emotion that people experience is denial. Those that tend to take charge are the ones who can pass through this quickly. But it can be uite lengthy in others. After the 1993 bombing of the WTC, there were people still sitting at their desks 10 hours later, refusing to believe what happened.

reply to post by Wotan


Sit X doesn't have to be country or worldwide either.

if your car goes over an embankment and no one sees your or knows where you are, you are in sit X.

people always think on big scale and never realize that survival can be an individual experience.

I think it is important to know either way.

I try to learn things to help other survive.

I actually don't think I will last long, i have too many health problems. But I hope to add to those around me before I drop off or take myself out for being a liablility.

I don't know very much yet, but I am working on it.

Now as for those who would survive and who wouldn't...

How much do you think the ability of resourcefullness will play into it?

There are those who can only follow the directions in the book, or think in a linear fashion, how will they fair despite the amount of knowledge they carry?

Then there is someone like my husband, who has this capability that no matter what broke in the house, he can find a way to fix it?
Among other things. He is extremely resourceful. ANd he can figure out how to do something on the first try.

reply to post by Briles


I will partially agree to this.

It has been known that people thought to be able to handle tough situation cowered and the house mouse took action.

Until the shtf, people really don't know who is going to respond and how.

Now people who are better equiped are given an edge. They are going to be able to act faster, and collect themselves faster, then those who are not.

Not that those who are not prepared are necessarily doomed, but it is going to be a hell of a lot of work and energy.

I will never forget when I worked in the park service, in a little park on the edge of a city. There was a program where they were bringing kids in from the inner city who have never been into the woods to experience nature. It was to keep kids out of gangs and give them a new perspective of the world.

These kids, who were partial thugs in the making, all ended up huddling together, frozen, scared to death and kept muttering "bears, bears bears" they were too scared to walk 20 yards to the bathroom.

It was hysterical and sad at the same time. So you just never know....

Sometimes you have to follow the book or at least go through a mental checklist.

I can remember the first time I was involved in a CPR, I was 'S****ing' bricks, palms were sweaty, andrenalin was pumping, heart pounding, scared and shocked in a way and really didnt know quite what to do, i just followed the orders i was given. Thankfully there were loads of people around me that did know what to do.

I have done CPR now, quite a few times in fact and I still get sweaty palms, increased heartrate and andrenalin pumping. The difference now is that I can go onto 'automatic mode' and run through the checklist in my head as I am working on the person.

Afterwards I get the shakes and reflect on what happended. Did I do okay? Could I have done it any better? What would I do differently next time?

I can tell you, that when that crash call goes out, the dread sets in.

reply to post by Wotan


I think your missing my point, I understand how resilient man is or at least, can be. However, I don't nescessarily agree that people interested in survivalist topics are going to cope better than people who are not.

Okay, they may well be better prepared & equipped, but what I'm saying is, until they've ever been in a TRUE survival situation then they don't really know how they are going to react.

The survival mentality can drain pretty quickly & will do in most people when they realise or start to think that their situation is futile.

I remeber reading a story on the news a while back about a US Marine I think who had fallen into water and couldn't get out, due to his training (and presumably his outlook on survival learned from the Marines) he tread water for something like 8 hours until he managed to alert a passer by.

Now, would the average joe be able to do this?

The answer is, yes they would be capable of doing it, but would they ???

Emotions play a huge role in survival. Fear, loneliness, anger, frustration and any negative emotion can change the whole perspective of survival. If you are emotional then chances are it will be much harder to survive.

However, humans have the ability to adapt to any environment. If your survival instincts kick in then chances are you will survive most situations.

The baser human instincts take over.
Humans will perform unspeakable acts on each other in order to survive. I am not here to judge this. If a Chemical, Biological, Radiological or Nuclear (CBRN for short) Situation occurs you will get.
1. Panic
2. Panic buying and general loss of rational thought in the populous.
3. Then as supply cannot meet demand general looting & theft.
4. Law & order breaks down.
5. Martial law/ rule of law at gunpoint.
6. All people good or bad will have weapons. Bad people will probably turn to violence more quickly.
7. Murder for resources/ fun or rape for sexual gratification will increase exponentially as bad apples in society run amock unrestrained.
8. Decent people will resort to maximum violence to protect themselves and their families.
9. General state of pandemonium.
10. Mix in some armed government soldiers, federal officers and deputies and the whole thing breaks down.

PANIC KILLS. Look at Hurricane Katrina (I hate going back to this but it is a good example) a local event which had huge consequences. General looting, lack of respect for Law and Order, instances of rape and killing. Dead bodies left to rot in the streets, panic in the populous as the bad apples run amock.

This was a relatively small (I know it was a whole region and a city) localised event. Imagine the scale of the problem if CBRN weapon hit New york or D.C or London with massive populate centres and suburbs.

Its Nice to be nice but don't kid yourself, we are not as highly developed, moral or law abiding as we like to think. CBRN situations bring out the best and worst in human kind.

reply to post by Wotan


As a student I was in an A+E dept, first month placement, second year. It was a huge teaching hospital and we had a dreaded 'red phone' that was a radio patch to ambulance control.

5 times it went on my first day. 5 cardiac arrests due to the summer heat.

You know, even to this day my stomach knots up when I hear a phone ring? weird isn't it?

As for sweaty palms in CPR.... oh hell, if any one ever says they don't sweat gallons and feel the pulse raise 80% I would wonder if they were putting in any effort!

Great Thread
I've never read or posted in this forum before, as I've always been a closet survivalist. I like the idea of survival, as I do it everyday in a pampered luxury kind of way. I'm not suicidal, but in some scenerios I could see myself not wanting to live if it meant only surviving.

There are so many factors involved, so many different levels of survival, and so many instances where I could see I would not want to survive.

I'm not brave by any means, but I would rather ride the plane down to an explosive death if it meant saving the lives of others. At least, now, when I'm not paniced or screaming for my mama! Maybe I'm more fatalistic, since I actually like the idea of leaving this world in a blaze of glory, rather than just wetting my pants.

As an architect, I've collected much data on building survival style homes, and have given a lot of thought on being "off the grid". But, being married to someone who will give her last ounce of blood to help others, means I must do the same, even with wet pants.

On a side note, when I first started reading this thread, I kept chuckling at Agent-T's avatar, hiding in his bunker with his special hat on Somehow I could see myself in that image.

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
I love you guys, I really do. You make me bloody proud to be an ATS'er who is prepped and can share with like minded folk.

We love you too, man. Thanks for bolstering our knowledge and increasing our chances of survival! That goes for the rest of you too!

I only wish I had more people in my direct vicinity who thought this way...

Originally posted by GriffinRD
I kept chuckling at Agent-T's avatar, hiding in his bunker with his special hat on

Somehow I could see myself in that image.

Heyyy.. That's my special evening wear.
Kevlar bat-helmet,Goretex superman boob-tube and thermal H-fronts....Homerman..woohoo!!
(I couldn't p-shop Iron-man boots on it. )
-------

It's actually good to see both sides of the 'survival' argument discussed here.


If threads like these save even on person in anything from a car-smash to a tsunami it's very worthwhile.
Apart from anything else,it's a written record that not all 'survivalists' are gun toting maniacs eagerly waiting for the 'end of the world' to go 'Rambo' on some poor unsuspecting zombie too.

What is difficult to get across is the preparedness/situational awareness isn't being pessimistic or 'hoping for a disaster' to put skills to the test.
It is,instead, an UNWILLINGNESS to be caught with our pants down in a bad situation that could be totally avoided.


Preparedeness...
NOT wearing your shorts n flip-flops when setting off to climb Ben-Nevis.

Situationally aware..The art of..
NOT walking down that alleyway when you've drawn your savings out the ATM..
That's 'Survivalism'.

Sound obvious?.. well NOT to some apparently.

reply to post by AGENT_T


This is going to kill you.



I got stopped last night walking home from a friends after putting some gear away. Two local officers in a car pull up, stop me and ask where i am going. So I gave my name and address, and then they ask 'whats in the bag' (bearing in mind its nearly 1 am).

I fish every thing out. We spend the next twenty minutes discussing the suitability of a fire steel over a blast match as a resource, and what poundage fish line and hooks a BOB should contain...

They didn't even blink an eyelid at the contents, not even once. I would of told the wife but she was alseep...

reply to post by AGENT_T

Apart from anything else,it's a written record that not all 'survivalists' are gun toting maniacs eagerly waiting for the 'end of the world' to go 'Rambo' on some poor unsuspecting zombie too.

The 'Rambos' will be the first to go. I just hope they don't shoot all the ammo up for those nice toys they have stored away... might be fun to deer hunt with an M-60.

As for hoping for something to happen, hey, who doesn't like a good movie with your (venison) dinner?

TheRedneck
(yeah, I'm back )

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
reply to post by AGENT_T

 

They didn't even blink an eyelid at the contents, not even once. I would of told the wife but she was alseep...

Hmmm, they probably would do where I live. Its a bit different in your neck of the woods Dan.

reply to post by Dan Tanna


Yeah.. VERY different here

I 'attended' a minor accident in a remote area a month or 2 ago.
(Drunk couple walking home..wife tripped.. landed on head..oww..)

After dialing 911.. huh?? I couldn't get a satnav reading so told the operator to lock on my phone signal.. She said it wasn't possible but a squad car turned up 2 mins later

After they confirmed request for ambulance they then requested I stayed in vehicle while they checked contents of mine..
They didn't put it all back in order and weren't exactly 'chatty' regarding reasons for carrying it.

T Points at bleeding woman.. "For instance!"

They didn't notice the torch I was holding was the sharp little blighter. (TOOLLOGIC) While I was cleaning up Mrs Sorelumpyhead.

Point off for observation.

Good job I know they're not all the same.

reply to post by AGENT_T



No way! They hassled you? after I dug out a stethascope, a trauma aid kit, some haemostat and a load of other stuff they were like 'oh, ok, right, ummm... hey whats that? A blast match and fire kit?'... lmao two survivalist coppers. Who on earth would of thought it?

PS... Love those shiny boots T.