Missing/Murdered Women, Murdered Pregnant Women and the Conspiracy of U.S. Citizens That Allows It

reply to post by Sleuth


And as has been stated over and over by me also, I am not talking about men being murdered here, I am talking about women. And you men are the ones killing each other and as Sleuth said, pony up the statistics on women killing men!

reply to post by LateApexer313


Hey, just to let you know, I submitted this thread to DIGG for you.

That gets attention on it from outside ATS, bringing people outside ATS boundaries into this intelligent discussion as well as the amount of people here on ATS you already have discussing it.

I felt it was important enough of an issue that many different perspectives was a good thing. I know you and I have talked about politics before, and I think you should seriously consider running for some office, and even though I told you I've had many people saying I should do the same, and I do not see that as a viable thing I want to do, I think you should seriously consider it.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by LateApexer313
reply to post by Sleuth

 

And as has been stated over and over by me also, I am not talking about men being murdered here, I am talking about women. And you men are the ones killing each other and as Sleuth said, pony up the statistics on women killing men!

would you say a man's chances of fending off 4 or more attackers if they mean business is any higher than one man vs. a woman? is it any more accaptable if a man gets offed instead of a woman? that smells of double standard, to be blunt. being a man does not make me guilty from the start, does it? more on that later.

the danger of 'disappearing' ie. being kidnapped & killed, etc. is there, no doubt and i even agree with you that women are most likely worse off, regarding both the odds of being attacked and the perpetrators' motivation.

there's a town called Ciudad Juarez in northern Mexico, where young women have been going missing since the early 90s and while some people have been convicted (scapegoats, most likely), it just goes on and noone seems to care, grassroots people aside, of course.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

this is an obviously organized effort and it's plain as day that men wouldn't fare much better when targetted by such operations. women are preferred victims, to e precise women between 15-25 years of age. add to that the little-known factoid that women's organs can be implanted into men, but not vice versa and it becomes likely that these black ops are medical in nature. same for missing children.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

the censorship is working well, of course and i hope you understand that horror stories about domestic abuse are a perfect opportunity for a smokescreen & mirrors effirt to divert attention from this holocaust site and the underlying program, which appears to be well protected by the states and more likely than not global in nature.

imho, nothing of this has anything to do with gender, it's about power vs. the people, plain and simple. when they find a rare compound in men's bodies, it'll be us frantically checking our surroundings for two vans shooting around a corner, and a dozen people shooting anesthetic darts jumping out to get us. none of these musing change the current situation. however.


PS: when a couple gets abducted and murdered in a horrible way
www.abovetopsecret.com... , does it matter if one victim is male? shouldn't we overcome judgding each another based on race, gender, you name it?

playing the same game won't earn too many sympathies, will it? as re22666 said, men are more likely to die violent deaths. do you believe the majority somehow deserved it, were 'gangsta' or simply too dumb? does it matter if it happens in a 'domestic' setting ie. among relatives and friends? dead is dead, isn't it?

the only real difference i see is that women additonally have to worry about being raped. short of packing heat and using it i don't know what would help in this regard and most countries around the world simply do not afford you this luxury. iow, they are more concerned with other things, whatever these might be, but i've go news for you: just because people in power are usually male, there's no reason to assume that every man is somehow priviledged or has more impact on society and policy.

Some people seem to be deliberately skirting the issue here - men murdering women in relation to domestic situations. We're not discussing organ theft. We're talking about man gets ticked at woman because she didn't do what he wanted her to do and slits her throat or shoots her or strangles her. We're talking about Peterson & Peterson* or the coward, OJ.

I'm still waiting on the statistics relative to women killing men over domestic issues. It does happen, but it is a small fraction of the violence men perpetrate against women every day within the confines of the home.



*Disclaimer for Drew Peterson: No, you haven't been convicted yet, but yours is a classic example of the type of situation we're discussing here.

[edit on 7/27/08 by Sleuth]

Originally posted by Sleuth

Originally posted by re22666
it has been stated over and over again that men die more, die more violent deaths, die by murder more often, etc.....
so being a female gives you an advantage from the start, statistically speaking. i say you stop whining and figure out a way to win when you already have the homefield advantage and you have been spotted some points.

While this is true, you failed to break down exactly what percentage of these deaths are directly related to (male/female) domestic situations. In your example, that is the most important statistic and you have omitted it.

no i did not. it does not matter. the point is, given a pool of men, and a pool of women, from birth, the pool of men is more likely to die. so from birth, womene have a statistical advantage over death. the reason and method has nothing to do with this statistic.

reply to post by re22666

Did you read any of the other posts at all? This thread is about domestic violence against women by men. We are asking for the specific statistic that details how many men are killed by women in domestic situations. The point is that far more women are killed by men than men by women in domestic situations.

Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 2001, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (588,490 total) and men accounted for approximately 15 percent of the victims (103,220 total).8

Source

Gender trends: Women make up 3/4 of the victims of homicide by an intimate partner. Actually, 33% of all women murdered (of course, only cases which are solved are included) are murdered by an intimate partner. Women make up about 85% of the victims of non-lethal domestic violence. In all, women are victims of intimate partner violence at a rate about 5 times that of males. 16

Source

Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male:
Male offender/Male victim 65.3%
Male offender/Female victim 22.7%
Female offender/Male victim 9.6%
Female offender/Female victim 2.4%
Both male and female offenders are more likely to target male victims than female victims.

Source

Although it is true that men are more likely to die by homicide than women, we also see that men kill women about 2 1/2 times as often as women kill men. I think the rest of the numbers speak for themselves. And of course, statistics for rape and assault against women are not included here; only homicides are.

reply to post by Sleuth


i was pointing out a statistical advantage that was much more in place a while back. if you did not get the point or what it had to do with this place, so sorry. forget it. do not bother getting mad at me because you do not see the value in that statistic when added to all the info on this thread. nevermind.

[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]

reply to post by re22666


I think they are two separate issues.

On the one hand we have the fact that men are more likely to be killed than women. Okay. I accept that I have a "statistical advantage" and that my life expectancy is longer than a man's.

I also think I understand that you may be trying to point out that men kill each other more often than they kill women. Also accepted.

None of that excuses or justifies the fact that men are beating up their wives and girlfriends. Only 15% of domestic violence is woman on man, and since we're talking about "intimate partner" violence here and I don't feel like going off and digging up stats on homosexual relationships, same gender violence is irrelevant in this context. What we are - were - discussing is the 85% of domestic violence that is men abusing their female 'partner,' and how unacceptable that is, and why it continues to go on with (seemingly) very little being done about it.

I would gladly trade my "statistical advantage" for not having to be concerned about myself, and all of my female relatives and friends, being abused by the men who supposedly love us.



[edit on 27-7-2008 by Heike]

Could be a series of unrelated crimes, how ever a good number of them may have a tie to the blackmarket stemcell sales. No matter what the case is, it warrents further involvement at a state and federal level.

[edit on 7/27/2008 by re22666]

what i was trying to point out was that it is an interesting anomoly that you have a smaller chance of being murder, generally speaking yet must still live more in fear than men. i think it is interesting that when looked at overall, women have a better chance of surviving lifes little evils, yet they still have to worry more about their safety. i was not arguing anything to anyone about men being victims more or women having no place to say any of this. add what i pointed out to what you pointed at and you dont find that at least curious? thats all.

reply to post by re22666

Now that you have stated your opinion clearly, I understand you. It's common knowledge though. All one has to do is consider the ratio of male to female correctional facilities.

Until your last post, you seemed to be minimizing the issue.

Originally posted by Sleuth
reply to post by re22666

 

Now that you have stated your opinion clearly, I understand you. It's common knowledge though. All one has to do is consider the ratio of male to female correctional facilities.

Until your last post, you seemed to be minimizing the issue.

i never said anything minimizing the issue. i just did not expand on my point. but i now i see the nature of this thread and what way the head turns when left room to assume so i will move on.

reply to post by Sleuth


Something you are forgetting here. Women probably get away with murder more than man and are therefore not part of the statistics.

Women are much more cunning when they murder someone and most of the time they use poison. How many men have been buried - with nobody knowing they were murdered? Nobody catches them until its 3-4 or more.

How much more difficult is it to convict a woman of murder? If I was on the jury I have to admit if she was attractive to me, I would have a harder time convicting her.

Men have testosterone which has the tendency to make them bigger, stronger & faster and more likely to make stupid decisions that result in violence. It's just how it is and will aways be. There will always be exceptions, but they are few and far between.

I have come to the aid of several different women who were being beaten by the men they chose and all I got was grief, death threats and lost relationships.

I'm 74" 265lbs and I can win any argument, if I choose. If I can't to it with my wit, I can always take the easy natural way out and end it with a combination of my superior size, strength, agility, and mental ability to remain in control of the battle. This goes for 99% of men and women on this planet. Yes, it keeps me alive and gives me an advantage, but for the most part I can't use my power or I'll end up in prison.

Regardless of how strong I am physically when I choose to let women in my life my strength goes behind them and not against them. The last one ran my credit cards up, hid my mail to cover her tracks, emptied 57k out of my bank account in 2 months which caused me to lose a 50k truck that was half paid for and put my credit in the dumps. Nope I didn't beat the 110 pounder up, but I did put her in a drug rehab program and there she still sits today.

Do I live in fear that the next intoxicatingly beautiful woman that makes my endorphins flow will turn my world upside down again and I'll have to start from scratch like an 18 year old again. Yes, I guess I reject quite a few more and yes sometimes I'd rather not get too involved for my own safety.

You know what though, the world is not perfect and we all have our weaknesses. Maybe I can walk down almost any dark alley on the planet and not worry about being raped, but I can always be robbed or killed by a gang or at gunpoint. Women with a little wit and beauty can marry any man on the planet no matter how powerful and you can do it from a trailer and move into the palace if you choose, or you can get an education and compete with the rest of us - nope woman in America or most the western world don't have it so bad. Men for the most part don't care where a woman comes from just her potential as a mate & partner, Women judge men much more harshly and a man from little means is rarely picked by a wealthy successful woman.



[edit on 28-7-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by Sleuth
Some people seem to be deliberately skirting the issue here - men murdering women in relation to domestic situations.

why you suppose that's the case?

if missing person statistics are remotely accurate, then domestic murder is likely not the main cause of death, is it? or do you propose that every divorced husband is a potential killer machine capable of carrying out murder with utmost perfection and capable of destroying all evidence, including his ex-wife's body and getting caught rarely if at all?! it probably takes a team or lots of planning to accomplish that reliably.

post by Heike

seems to confirm my notion, because 'only' 1/3 of all female homicide victims are killed by people close to them.

sorry, the thread title is about missing, murderwed women, with emphasis on pregnant ones.

so, iow, i deliberately posted what i had on the topic at hand, thank you very much. if you want a comment about domstic violence, i'll let you know beforehand that you're not going to like it.

being physically weaker on average puts you at a disadvantage in violent conflict. an offshoot is that implusive violence is more dangerous in men, which will account for a slight difference (in # of cases) all by itself.

PS: you wanted something on female killers:

clinical-psychology.suite101.com...

seems like many of them had their act together and scored a lot. these are, according to the site, very rare, though:

We don't hear of many female serial killers, and that may be partly because women aren't as prone to commit any type of crime as men. Men are more aggressive and violent than women are, which is why female serial killers are less common. Women account for 14% of violent offenders (men are 6 times more likely to commit violent crimes).

have no idea (yet) how the relation works out for murder alone.

interestingly:

Female serial killers generally kill people close to them, such as husbands, family members, or people dependent on them. Males kill strangers more often.

[edit on 2008.7.27 by Long Lance]

huh, i expected a bit more determination, considering it is an emotional and wide reaching topic.


i have one more question, whom are you're afraid of in public places? your ex who's trying to 'slit your throat and dump you along the highway' or gang-bangers, serial killers, iow total strangers. if it's the latter, i wonder why you focused on domestic violence.

reply to post by Long Lance


Then Lance, I guess you didn't read all of the thread, or even half of it.

The issue is "Women as the Main Prey in Society"....be they girls in their teens, wives, mothers...and what does the fact that classifying the men that kill them, as you just did, labeling them "serial killers, gang-bangers, or victims of domestic violence" have to do with the fact that women are prey for MEN, regardless of how you classify the men??

The point is WHY do men, of any group or niche in society, get the idea that it's ok to off their spouse, girlfriend, teen girl that lives down the street they are lusting after....why is that?

It's unbelievable that still this thread has posts like yours and others defending men and why they kill us women...oh so if it's a "gang-banger" that justifies it in your eyes? A serial killer, well gee he's outside of the society norm so he doesn't count??

I can't believe that there are men on ATS here posting that "Hey women gt away with murder, women are serial killers too you know...shucks men die more violently then women etc etc "

Give me a break

As Sleuth said, you're doing nothing more then making excuses for the facts here.

Originally posted by LateApexer313
Then Lance, I guess you didn't read all of the thread, or even half of it.

The issue is "Women as the Main Prey in Society"....be they girls in their teens, wives, mothers...and what does the fact that classifying the men that kill them, as you just did, labeling them "serial killers, gang-bangers, or victims of domestic violence" have to do with the fact that women are prey for MEN, regardless of how you classify the men??

The point is that you don't understand the statistics that you are waving about. The way I read the statistics is that women are granted more protection by society than men are. That is what the statistics tell us.

I am using the 1996 statistics here but any year should only be +-2% from these numbers.

Total murders: 19,645
Men: 15,848
Women: 2,711
Children: 1,077

What this tells me is that women have nearly the same universally protected status that children do in our society. A man who mouths off to the wrong person, for instance, is four times likely more to be injured or killed. A man who crosses the parking lot at night has a greater chance of being mugged or carjacked. Why? Genetics and culture have ingrained in men that women are to be protected at all costs.

The funny thing is that you turn this around and suddenly create this myth of the constant victim. I have seen this done many times, largely by feminists, but when you look at the break down of intimate murders the numbers don't seem that out of skew.

Men murdered by girlfriends/wives: 475
Women murdered by boyfriends/husband: 813

Which is hardly a difference at all - 1:2 (male:female). To give you an example to compare with, according to the DOJ, child murderers were predominantly female (1:4). The real question is, "What the heck is wrong with women in our society?" since they seem more likely than men to victimize someone much weaker than themselves.

But I digress...

What this ratio means is that for every two women who are killed by their intimate, a man is also killed by his intimate. Is that close a ratio representative of the degree of rampant and systemic gender-based victimization that you claim is occurring in this country? Personally I don't think so.

I propose that women are still treated as more valuable (in a biologically sense) by society at large and that, as a result, men still provide far more protection and assistance to women than they do to other men. The numbers tell me precisely the opposite of what a majority of posters in this thread seem to claim. It looks to me that women are actively protected by our culture and not seen as prey.

You should be thankful that a large majority of men feel this way instead of painting the whole of mankind as out to victimize women.

Jon

EDIT: My keyboard isn't spelling correctly!

[edit on 8.3.2008 by Voxel]

Interesting thread. As a male I can say it's definitely something I haven't really considered before, but there definitely is a problem. But this is one of those social problems which has to be handled by the family, bringing up male kids right. No amount of legistlation is going to prevent crazy evil people doing things to women. But I think harsher punishments are needed, not just for the sake of deterrency, but just because things like this should have harder repercussions.

But as an aside, I dont know who should be more frightened! The women or the men! Really it's a sad state of affairs for both sexes, that men should feel uncomfortable approaching women for fear of scaring them, and women should feel ready to spring into violence or carry weapons around.

I remember one time I was walking home, and a youngish nurse came out of an elderly nursing home and started walking the same way as me, on the opposite side of the street, we were walking around the same speed and I started to become paranoid that she'd think I was stalking her. We were both heading for a street which had it's lamps turned off for some reason, so I took a major detour which added a 10-15 minutes to my journey just to make her feel more comfortable. We're Living in sad times.