If Revelations is about Rome, what is the Mark of the Beast?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You are correct. There is not one but many "anti-Christs" it is suggested.

I take this word in it's literal sense to indicate all those people individuals and religions that deny Jesus Christ was a son of God.

Anti - CHRIST

You're almost correct, the Bible states that the "spirit of the antichrist" was present in the world at that time, and many antichrists would come, however, for the purpose of Revelation, it speaks of "THE" antichrist, which in the Greek signifies a specific one. The one who not only has the spirit of the antichrist, but who will be possessed by Satan himself halfway through the Tribulation.

There is an enormous difference in the Greek between "a/an" and "the" antichrist. "THE antichrist" defines a specific one.

The one who not only has the spirit of the antichrist, but who will be possessed by Satan himself halfway through the Tribulation.

Mind showing me where it says this?

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


no i didnt know that neo christian but yeah like you said egypt was the first known empire and was the one rome rome modeled there kingdom after...any ideas why these numbers are used in occultism and christianity? u still didnt answer why god uses it in revelations so much...1260 days that is

im not saying its not possible for there to be an actual anti christ, im just saying that there is also a mentality(an image) that has the whole world drunk right now! your sadly mistaken if your gonna sit around and wait for an actual person when hes the one that is probably pulling the strings. to me the whole illuminati and the bildebergs are the ones promoting this image...

reply to post by NOTurTypical


LOL What funny story were you talking about? In fact what are you talking about? Do you know?

What does the Bible tell us about the Antichrist?
www3.telus.net...

[Two meanings go along with the prefix anti. The first carries the thought of "instead of" or "a substitute." A better way of putting this would be "false Christ." The second meaning is probably the one most often thought of - "against," or "against Christ." If you are anti something, then you are against it. This, I believe, is the more accurate meaning of the term used in John's epistles.]

[Many terms have been used to describe or define Antichrist(s) or the Antichrist. One that comes to mind most often is the deceiver. Based on further study of Scripture, we can see that there will be an onslaught of false teaching that will cause many to form a new ecumenical world religion. Those drawn to this new theology will be deceived into believing Satan's lies, as taught by Antichrists (those who teach against Christ) and the False Prophet who deceives those who listen to his lies.)

[edit on 15-3-2010 by rusethorcain]

If you must see "666" as Roman there is the "Tally Die", a marble one (called a Durum
which named 'pasta' for the similarity in appearance), it had inscribed in its 6 sides the
Roman Numerals (in each opposite) D and C, L and X, V and I.
It was used in casting lots for rank or precedence when only 0ne had to be 'voted' in.

Sigh...

Fourty Eight prophecies that THE antichrist will fulfill.

What does the term ANTIChrist have to do with anything written in the text of The Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite (aka the Book of Revelation)?

I do not see the term ANTI CHRISTOS in ANY of the Greek MSS of this book. Lots of Beasts of Daniel and Horses of Zechariah chapter 4 and a few Whores and such, but no ANTI CHRIST.

Are you people adding the term AC/ANTI CHRIST to this text, and if so, why...when the text specifically warns believers not to tamper with it (of course it was tampered with in over 50 places with additions knon as Marginalia)

But the text as it stands to-day in the Greek does not use the term ANTI CHRIST at all in any of the major (3) MSS of this messy and heavilly butchered (and badly written Greek) collection of vision-oracles and Midrash.

All you on this threadlet DID know this, didn't you? If not, maybe you should take the time and read it, one vision oracle at a time?

reply to post by Sigismundus


Don't even try to patronize me dude. No, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ", does NOT specifically say "antichrist", you are correct. However, what you completely fail to realize that when JOHN was writing "Revelation" he didn't need to write "antichrist", because HE HAD ALREADY NAMED HIM IN PREVIOUS BOOKS!!! Trust me buddy, I can add 2 + 2 without the help of a calculator.

1 JOHN 2:18:

"18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichristshall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

1JOHN 2:22:

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

1 JOHN 4:3:

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

2 JOHN 1:7:

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

And trust me, John was WELL aware of the teachings of Christ and Daniel.

Save it man.




[edit on 16-3-2010 by NOTurTypical]

Originally posted by Sigismundus

I do not see the term ANTI CHRISTOS in ANY of the Greek MSS of this book. Lots of Beasts of Daniel and Horses of Zechariah chapter 4 and a few Whores and such, .

All you on this threadlet DID know this, didn't you? If not, maybe you should take the time and read it, one vision oracle at a time?

yes, many infer the title AC= AntiChrist to the 'first beast'= certain man, in the Book of Revelation

in my earlier post ...i used this description:

[...] all one needs now is a financial genius to beguile the global masses[ ...]

this financial & political-militaristic Genius, is also Daniels' little horn

but we all understand that John's vision of the first beast/man
is the same dispicible person who gains the throne by intrigues & lies
described in Daniel. So calling the 'little-horn/1st beast' an A-C is not putting words in the prophets mouth, its just a 'shorthand' version of identification. I am able to overlook it, and let the theologians dicker & debate the issue.


thanks

I watched something once that said 666 was a numerological (

Not Your Typical

You need to take a Greek class.

If you cannot see that the elegant and sophisticatedly smooth, late first centuy Koine Greek of canonical 1, 2 and 3 John (whoever wrote those epistles, posisbly a John the Elder, whoever he was) and the clumsy, stodgy, ungrammatical, paltry, cludgy, fourth-rate, childish, beginner baby Greek (so full of 'outrageous Greek grammatical howlers' and imported Aramaic constructions that are foreign to the Greek language) of the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite (aka Book of Revelation) are written by a different person, then you deserve a little patronisation, it seems.

The two sets of documents (Johnanine Epistles and Apocalypse) are not by the same person - at least as they stand now in the Greek text, especially beginning in chapter 4 where the visions start - composed of outrageous constructions that make the silly Greek of the Gospel of Mark look almost polished.

So if you want to say AntiChrist is pre-supposed in the Apocalypse because it is written by the same person(s) who wrote 1,2 and 3 'John', you are making a claim that is not based on any textual evidence.

Just fantasy.

Like so much other garbage on these socalled Beastie Revelation threadlets.

And I for one am getting a little tired of the ignorance being shown by persons who cannot read the text for themselves...and that includes you apparently.

PLEASE - do your homework before you start pasting your woefully half-baked assumptions before the whole group here. It serves no purpose at all.

This is speaking of future, the Bible speaks about these events effected by the whole world. This is the part you are all missing, sometimes reading the Bible in your hands helps you to discover new secrets or voids in your knowledge.

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


(I believe the Christians are holding back the man the man of lawlessness, untill they are withered away he will come but he can not with us in the way and Christ will destroy him.)

5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


(There will be a powerful delusion added by God's anger that makes it worse even still, maybe Political Correctness is one of them and all those silly laws they make against basic human rights and freedoms. The other could UFOs and Aliens.)

Stand Firm

13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

Here's an introductory overview of the subject at hand, there're lots of further developments- but this guy did his homework and it's worthy of being up on:

www.666man.net...
and another treatise with better examples:
www.666myth.com...


[edit on 2010/3/16 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

HAHA, mmkay.

"Rev 1:1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Rev 1:2 who testified to what he saw: the word of God and the testimony about Jesus Christ.

Rev 1:3 How blessed is the one who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy and keep what is written in it, for the time is near!

Rev 1:4 From John to the seven churches in Asia......."

Yahua--

Your links are full of half truths, exaggerations, incorrect statements of facts, misleading statements and other nonsense, especially when it talks about the derivation of the 616 / 666 variations in the Book of Revelation chapter 13.

Scholars have known for at least a century of the Hebrew Gemmatria relation to the two numerical spellings of the name Nero Caesar and the NRVN QSR / NRV QSR conundrum in the VERY few full MSS we possess of the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite.

Codex Ephraimi from c. ad 340 (C) shows The Number of the Beast in Rev 13 to read: 616

Codex Alexandrinus from c. ad 360 shows the Number of the Beast in Rev 13 to read: 666

Codex Sinaiticus from c. ad 380 shows the Number of the Beast in Rev 13 to read: 666

Your links seem to think that this 616 v. 666 was a mere case of sloppy copying in antiquity - but there is every evidence to suggest (as Bart Ehrman and others have pointed out) deliberate alterations based on the 2 spellings of the name NERO CAESAR (nrv qsr = 616 as with Ephraemi palimsest) and nrvn qsr = 666 as with Alexandrinus & Sinaiticus.

It has nothing to do with Babylonian spellings or sloppy copies made by sloppy scribes - these changes were deliberate local variations of the SAME name - and the 'solution' to the name has to fit BOTH 616 and 666 as the name NERO does, in fact.

Most of your link information is paltry scholarship not worthy of the name. A better commentary on the Book of Revelation would be one published as early as 1968 by J Massenberde Ford (etal.) under the Anchor Bible Series Commentary Vol 38 and a number of more recent scholarly (almost all Preterist) Commentaries that take a closer look at the Dead Sea Scrolls related quotations in the Book of Revelation - and show how the gemmatria was used in some detail.

Originally posted by BreakinThEwaLL
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

no i didnt know that neo christian but yeah like you said egypt was the first known empire and was the one rome rome modeled there kingdom after...any ideas why these numbers are used in occultism and christianity?u still didnt answer why god uses it in revelations so much...1260 days that is/quote]

Most of these numbers have a tendency to pop up everywhere. In math, time, geography human anatomical proportions and they seem to reflect a corelation between the base-10 and base-60 numerical systems.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


yeah math is the universal language so i guess it makes sense...

reply to post by BreakinThEwaLL


Check out my thread called Mystical symetry of numbers, where I have a few referances to some of the numbers of Revelation:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by asmeone2
Hi Everyone, I have been thinking lately about the people who say that Revelations actualy described the fall of Rome, or sometimes just the Temple being destroyed. However, I have not heard them explain the relevence of the 'Mark of the Beast' verse.

I would like to know if anyone can explain that specificallyin that context, since the mark as a microchip is usually the number one thing that Christians point to as proof that we're in the end time.

I am neither trying to disprove any theories nor validate Christianity, I'm just looking to fill in a hole in my understanding. I'm just asking politely for an answer! Thank you in advance!

Logically speaking, since Christianity rose in the Fall of the Roman Empire, and after all; they are the ones whom sacrificed Jesus, you can interpret this.

Some Minimalists which I have read, state that "The Mark of the Beast", is 666. If you've ever studied Science, you know of Chemical bonds. The hex, is one of the strongest man made, that causes tissue damage to Humans. Benzenes are a very common grouping, that when added to simple materials, they become very dangerous in the hands of an aggressor.

This is not my interpretation, as I stated it is that of others.

But, when I took Chemistry and Physics at a local University, I did see the pattern. Where, double bonds, and angle all seem lateralized around six when speaking of weaponry.

So, I guess you could state that. That is, that the mark, 666, is in fact a call to arms, of sorts.