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Are we Americans now barbarians and savages?

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posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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We are better than they are, that is why we don't engage in torture.

I thought we hated Hitler because he murdered and tortured.

I thought we hated Mau because he murdered and tortured.

I thought we hated Stalin because he murdered and tortured.

I thought we hated Saddam Hussein because he murdered and tortured.

Now are we supposed to hate ourselves???

WTF???




posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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So, everyone who ever takes a shot at a US soldier or citizen and lives to tell about it is "subhuman scum" now?

That's a new one. If the law prevents you from doing something to a person, operate under the assumption he's an animal and do it anyway!

Like it or not, Monitor, your country IS a signatory to the Geneva Convention, and MUST obey its rules. Anything else would qualify as a war crime.

Remember Sadam Hussein? He was hanged for his war crimes. THis was made possible by US military action.

So allowing your nation to make warcrimes makes the President, his soldiers, and those who support them hypocrites, doesn't it? When another nation does it, it's a tragedy, but, if I understand you, when an citizen of the United States of America does it, it's heroism.

Yup, sounds like a fair deal to me.


(Edit to acknowledge that Anon apparently thought of this before I did.)
(Second edit to clarify that I was referring to ALL Americans involved in the war, not just military ones)

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Ephiram-Lo]

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Ephiram-Lo]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Ephiram-Lo
 


When was peter berg or Daniel Pearl ever a member of the US Armed Forces?

Do you even read what is written before replying? Or do you just jump to a conclusion no matter how wrong it is?



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


And show me how the US has committed any acts anywhere near the level of what the people you mentioned did. Your strawman argument doesn't work.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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We've always been Savages and Barbarians...we're all human. Humans are all alike.

All religious fundamentalists are barbarians of a foolish nature. Woot woot.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Leo Strauss

Are we Americans now barbarians and savages?


[


YES.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by bubbles75
 



Originally posted by bubbles75

Ok so these enemies are fighting not for their countries but because their prophet told them to? Prove it.


The fact that al Qaeda comes to Iraq to murder shows they are not fighting for their country.

What is al Qaeda's country, anyway?



And if they wore a uniform then that would be fine?

Yes. They would be following the GC. And it would also make it easier to distinguish them from the civilians they hide among like the cowardly scum they are.



And if they kill in the name of their vile prophet why do they protect Christian Palestinians and Christian Lebanese from....YOU?

They don't protect Christians. They hide among them like the cowardly scum they are.



You think God would even remotely LIKE YOU?


*MY* God does. Not sure about your god.



And who did 9/11?


Where were you on 9/11? Maybe *you* did it.



And who financed the terrorists in Europe in the seventies or the terrorists in Iran or even lets see.....who created the Taliban and hailed them as freedom fighters?

Germany, Libya, Uganda, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, for starters.



And what did YOU do to the Vietnamese and why?

We cleaned up after the French.



And what does the CIA do in its covert operations?


They hold bake sales and soccer games.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by US Monitor
reply to post by Ephiram-Lo
 


When was peter berg or Daniel Pearl ever a member of the US Armed Forces?

Do you even read what is written before replying? Or do you just jump to a conclusion no matter how wrong it is?


Are you about to tell me that the US army doesn't run Gitmo? I wasn't referring to Peter Berg or Daniel Pearl. I was referring to the US Army-run torture programs aimed at "enemy insurgents" or "terrorists" or whatever the mot d'jour is for people they don't like.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 


Could you name one war in history where people werent tortured? Could you post percentages of POW's that were tortured from these wars? Just asking.

Knowing that its happening now and trying to be PC about it is one thing, acting like its new is ludacris.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by Ephiram-Lo
 



Ah, yes. Three culturally adjusted meals a day, prayer rugs, copies of the Qu'ran, excellent medical care, exercise areas...

Sounds like torture to me.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


And yet, somehow, the constantly rehashed cases of waterboarding, etc, etc, are somehow absent from your post.

Yup. Sounds like 5-star accommodations to me.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by Ephiram-Lo
 


Waterboarding? Show me where it has happened it Gitmo.

And waterboarding is a lot better than decapitation.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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Why is this an issue? Wait, we torture people? How? Waterboarding? I do more unpleasant stuff than that for fun!!
Is that show "Fear Factor" totrure?

Oh yeah, remember when we beheaded all those enemy combatants by sawing off their heads with abig knife?
You don't? That might be becasue we didn't do that.

They played Harvester of Sorrow for 72 hours on a loop! Nooooo!!!
They made us wear funny clothes and chopped off our beards?

NAked? So Evilll!!! They make high school football players and frat boys do the same stuff. Wah.

A leash? One man's pleasure.

They make every soldier do this and plenty of penal institutions do similar things.

These guys were captured in war, you know. War that we supprted either at Wal mart or the polls.
Nah, we could be ALOT meaner.

So quit giving money to Americans. That's the only way to stop the inhumane "hazing of POWs."



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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Actually, 72 hours of anything distracting enough to keep people awake is Sleep Depravation.

Incidentally, that IS recognized as torture by the international courts.

It doesn't matter how "minor" you think it is. Torture is torture. What is passable for some is unbearable to others.

It is said, "This was the straw that broke the camel's back."

Sometimes the most minor thing can be all it takes to ruin someone's mind permanently. That's what the GC is for. To protect the "Human Rights" and "Liberty" that the US is always up in arms about.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
Things really have changed. Instead of fighting enemies that are in uniform fighting for their countries, we have terrorists hiding among civilians. No codes of conduct, no Geneva Convention concerns, just killing in the name of their vile prophet Mohammed, may God...nevermind. (had to edit myself)

One thing that hasn't changed since the Revolutionary War is our humane treatment of prisoners. That is what made America great then and it continues to this very day.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by RRconservative]


funny..... you forgot to mention about the war for oil, we all thought that the looted gas will be $0.50 per gallon at the pumps, that is why we supported the war....but we were duped again, it is clear that we will have to pay for this war and the oil profits will not be shared with the taxpayer.....!!!



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by Ephiram-Lo
 


Waterboarding? Show me where it has happened it Gitmo.

And waterboarding is a lot better than decapitation.


Quoth the UN:
www.cnn.com...



It said U.S. interrogators should stop using "water boarding" and other questioning techniques that amount to torture.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Ephiram-Lo

It doesn't matter how "minor" you think it is. Torture is torture. What is passable for some is unbearable to others.



Classic liberal definition of torture! End of debate!

If I start asking a terrorist questions, and I forgot to brush my teeth beforehand, I guess I could be accused of torture. My bad!

Now that we know what torture is. What is an acceptable way of getting information that might save thousands of lives in the future? Or would you rather that information never gets released costing thousands of lives?



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative

Originally posted by Ephiram-Lo

It doesn't matter how "minor" you think it is. Torture is torture. What is passable for some is unbearable to others.



Classic liberal definition of torture! End of debate!

If I start asking a terrorist questions, and I forgot to brush my teeth beforehand, I guess I could be accused of torture. My bad!

Now that we know what torture is. What is an acceptable way of getting information that might save thousands of lives in the future? Or would you rather that information never gets released costing thousands of lives?


Classic American response. Dismiss the dissenting viewpoint as "liberal" and be done, by taking only one sentence out of context and using it as you please.

Your proposed torture is absurd. Nobody will be driven out of their wits by halitosis. The distinction between the relative annoyance of a dirty-mouthed guard and physical/mental abuse should be clear to even the most Xenophobic of people.

You consider the information given by those under extreme mental duress to be reliable? I weep for you, but I am also glad that you don't run a nation.

Think about it. "I'll keep doing X action against you until you tell me where the bomb is!"
The guy might not have a damn clue where the bomb is, but he sure as hell will spin a nice story once the pressure gets turned up too high.

There is a saying, "If you can't swim, stay out of the pool." If you can't handle what an interrogator is doing to you, you're going to do everything in your power to make it stop, am I right?

To answer your first actual question, there is another saying "You will catch more flies with honey than vinegar." Offer rewards to those who sell out other plots. Remember that even a small amount of US cash can be a fortune in some countries.
(Edited: fixing proverb)

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Ephiram-Lo]

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Ephiram-Lo]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by Ephiram-Lo
 


These people were captured in battle. That's a waiving of certain considerations. Also, should they have just been blown up? And never reprted as haveing existed?
No. Worth more alive, maybe? For info?

I have slept with my head resting on a firearm going off in regular bursts.
I was really tired.

This is you:



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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THE GOVERNMENT SURE AS HELL IS!




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