Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
If you read and understood the book of Revelation you would know that when this declaration finally comes organized religion will be at it's weakest
point in all history.
I would disagree with you on your assessment of religion during the period we are talking about.
The more violence and upheaval occurring in the world the more people turn to religion, it never fails.
It isn't that there will be less religion there will actually be more religion, it is that religion will become more diffuse
I don't see religion getting weaker during the period of the end times, it is just going to be more diluted by varying and differing types and
Our definitions of things like religion and government are controlled by the PTB's of the world, and unless we as individuals seek out the truth on
our own terms outside of all power structures of whatever type, religious or secular, it is impossible to know it.
Let me give you my take on the first few words of 1Th 5:3 which we are discussing and you may see what I mean.
1Th 5:3a (KJV)
For when they shall say, Peace and safety
Now this is all my speculation based on the idea that today could be part of the end times, trying to identify in modern terms what groups of people
would best fit with these particular words in the scriptures.
In my opinion the "they,' from the perspective living in the US today here and now, would have to be mainly Christian religious preachers and their
followers, from all the different denominations that are built fundamentally on the doctrines of discipline and obedience to their particular way of
seeing things, versus the teaching of life through faith and real time spiritual manifestation of power.
What is important is the effect the people doing the saying is producing on the people listening, and the ideas their particular group or cause is
Is what they are about drawing individuals away from the truth into some collective lie, and does what they are doing depend fundamentally on the
ideas of discipline and obedience?
The religious Jews who followed Paul from city to city were teaching the new believers who had heard the word of Paul, saying that the right way to
live was through discipline and obedience to the law of moses, the first four books of the bible, the ten commandments etc. and their particular
religious interpretations of the scriptures at that time.
These religious Jews were using the teaching of ideas like obedience and discipline as the means a person was to employ to live rightly in the sight
of God, specifically discipline and obedience to the law, a sort of justification through works.
They taught this as a deception from the truth of what Paul was teaching.
Paul taught that believers should walk and live be faith alone, not by sight.
For the best understanding of the differences in the conflicting methods presented, you could read the book of Galatians, because the people of
Galatia were the most negatively effected from the introduction of this doctrinal error by the religious Jews.
Here is an example of Paul confronting the Galatians for turning away from a faith based life to one of works by obedience and discipline to the
Ga 1:6 - 8
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some
that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we
have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga 2:21, 3:1 - 7
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you,
that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you,
Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by
the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among
you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children
Ga 3:11 - 12
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The
man that doeth them shall live in them.
It was the teaching of good works through personal discipline and obedience to religiously determined rules and commands that led to the great falling
away from the truth of believers, recorded in scripture which occurred towards the end of the first century.
These people who fell away from the original teachings of life by faith alone through the supernatural manifesting of the power of God, became what we
know and recognize today as the Christian religion.
But you can trace the break up of the first century believers into what was to become the Christian religion, it was all based around the teaching of
discipline and obedience for right living, which is in my view the very first teachings after the day of Pentecost to be used to deceive honest
believers away from living for God, to get them instead to turn and live for some religion.
The idea that you can have a real working relationship with the creator by the keeping, through obedience and discipline, of some predetermined set of
rules and activities, or by simply being a good person, is contrary to the operations of the holy spirit.
Getting back to the first few words of 1Th 5:3a "For when they shall say, Peace and safety."
The "they" who will be saying this, in my opinion, updated to our modern time and for my situation here in the US, are mostly Christian preachers in
denominations that are founded on doctrines of life with God through discipline and obedience.
What was really exciting for me though, as I was delving into this verse, was looking at the ideas for what the word of peace and safety which they
will be communicating at that time, could be.
I personally don't believe we are at the end times.
But nevertheless I tried to find modern correlations that could fit to the gist of what I thought was being conveyed in the phrase, "peace and
One of the best examples I think that fits the bill for a Christian preacher today who's teachings fundamentally, for their appeal to draw away
honest believers from a life with God by faith alone, depend on the ideas of discipline and obedience, and in his words is saying peace and safety,
is Joel Osteen.
His books his weekly sermons I think serve as great examples of a modern day interpretation of what, a word or saying of peace and safety, might look
and sound like now.
You could think of the words peace and safety to mean more fully "peace and prosperity, certainty and safety."
If you take apart the teachings of someone like Joel Osteen, you see it makes a perfect candidate for what 1Th 5:3 is communicating about those saying
peace and safety.
Osteen's teachings basically say, anyone can have peace and prosperity, certainty and safety, in this time of tumult, all they need to do is be
disciplined to obey certain biblical principles, that he has laid out for everyone of course in his ministry and work.
Another candidate I noticed could be the teaching of the, "rapture" by the fundamentalist sects of Christianity.
The rapture basically tells the faithful that they don't have anything to worry about, Jesus is coming back for them and so they are going to be safe
and have peace, while the rest of us are going to burn in hell on earth.
However the teaching of the rapture is not normally directed at a general audience, but at people who are already in a state of unbelief, as are most
who are religious, they have already become apatetic towards the idea of walking by the spirit of God and living by faith alone, before they ever hear
about the rapture.
The teaching of the rapture is not being used to draw people away from a life with God by faith, that is why I would be more inclined to go with some
teachings along the lines of what you might hear from a Joel Osteen or a Billy Graham and not a Hagee or Robertson,
The, "they" of 1Th 5:3a who will be saying, peace and safety, from an American point of view here and now, should be mostly Christians preachers
with their disciples and followers, their teachings and results, what they are geared toward achieving, actively reach out drawing individuals away
from trying to live a life by faith alone where they learn to walk and grow by the manifestation of supernatural power in real time, and into a life
to be lived by discipline and obedience, of spiritual death, by promising peace and prosperity, certainty and security, as a bribe to the mind of the