It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Proof Islam is of the AntiChrist

page: 4
1
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:04 AM
link   
reply to post by heliosprime
 

Actually, the Quran says to leave the punishment of apostates to God.
And while some apostates were killed in Muhammad's time, this was for treason and political betrayal, and not for apostasy. The Muslim's were in conflict with the Meccans, and such tactics as conversion and then rejecting Islam en masse and escaping to the enemy were used to pass on plans and sow discord. The order was used at that time to prevent this from happening again.

Proof of this is that there are many Hadith involving apostasy where the Prophet did not do anything to the apostate.

But how is this related to Islam being the Anti-Christ? I wish you'd stick to one topic, so it would be easier to have a discussion. You still haven't asked this 'central question'. Are you placing all your eggs in this one basket of apostasy? Because the Bible does explicitly call for the death of apostates.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by babloyi]




posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:13 AM
link   
reply to post by babloyi
 


One more try........islam is of the antichrist because it takes mankind "AWAY" from God (YHVH) and Jesus as his son, mans saviour.

It leads weak minded arrogant types into a seemingly parrallel place that "magifies" religion and corrects so called Jewish tarnishing of the scriptures. In reality it leads its doomed followers into the lake of fire.....

islam is a lie, the koran is fake.........

PS I have watched you do this same thing for years there babloyi in every debate on this subject........even back to your early days.....it grows weak............



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:35 AM
link   
reply to post by heliosprime
 

Haha...thanks. I take that as a great compliment. Also, it's nice to know I have 'early days' here- I guess 4 years is a long while in internet time. Anyhow, I use plain logic, and scripture when applicable, so if that takes you AWAY from anything, that thing can't possibly be God (or YHWH- Hebrew doesn't have a V). God is the one who created the logic I use, so when I use it, and it can't be responded to with a straight answer (or a question), I must be doing something right.

Peace!

[edit on 25-7-2008 by babloyi]



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by heliosprime
 

(or YHWH- Hebrew doesn't have a V).


Perhaps you should read this website then.........

www.hebrew4christians.com...

It discribes in detail all the actual hebrew names for YHVH and why YHWH is not the same. It includes "clips" of the actual hebrew pronunciations of all the translated and mistranslated names...............

Perhaps this will assist you in your transformation from islam to christian...

Repent, seek YHVH and he will hear your prayer. Confess Jesus as the son of God and he too will hear your prayer.

allah and muhammad are satantic, evil, vile liars defiling mankind..........



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 08:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by heliosprime
 

(or YHWH- Hebrew doesn't have a V).


Perhaps you should read this website then.........

www.hebrew4christians.com...

Perhaps you should check up on some history, then. That site is very odd in that when it says that there is no /w/ sound in hebrew, it's talking about modern hebrew. In Biblical hebrew, ו (and also in Aramaic, the language of Jesus)was semi-vowel called waw, prounounced as /w/ (since changed to 'vav' with the pronounciation /v/ in modern hebrew). Since the website blantantly says 'there is no /w/ in hebrew' (when talking about a book written in Biblical Hebrew), it is obviously wrong.



Originally posted by heliosprime
Perhaps this will assist you in your transformation from islam to christian...

Repent, seek YHVH and he will hear your prayer. Confess Jesus as the son of God and he too will hear your prayer.

That seems like a step backward for me, sorry. It's like asking you to forsake Christianity, and go back to 'the original pure truth of Judaism'. And I don't need an intermediary to pray to God.



Originally posted by heliosprime
allah and muhammad are satantic, evil, vile liars defiling mankind..........

I'm sorry, but repeating it again and again won't make it true. Do you have anything else to add?



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 11:49 PM
link   
To: Babloyi

You said:

But does he want us to worship him in 'image'? I think not. Any 'visual imagining' you can possibly have of God will be absolutely wrong, and if you worship that 'visual imagining', I'd call that idolatry.

The Bible says:


Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

1 Corinthians 11:17 - For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God


You are confused my friend. You correlate God creating man after his own image as idolatry. Idolatry is worshiping other gods other than God Himself. It’s all about worshiping other gods. What you are trying to reason here is, since God created man after his own image, and that man is an image of God, therefore this is idolatry?? So, God made an idol? Did God told us to worship man, a created being?

I think you need to read more about and understand what is an idol and what is idolatry. Do some research, because you are confused between God creating man after his own image and idol worshiping. You have a serious problem telling the difference.

God created man after His own image and likeness. We call Him our Father and He call us His children.

Show me a verse in the Koran which states that Allah call Muslims his children and created after his own image.

You said:

That didn't really answer the question. If you think God has an image, please tell me what that image is.

The Bible says:


Revelation 1 - NIV

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Daniel 10 - NIV

5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of the finest gold around his waist. 6 His body was like chrysolite, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.


God has already revealed to us what He looks like as described by prophet Daniel and John. They saw God. This is not something mysterious. However, it is forbidden to depict God in any images made by man or anything by your own imagination or invention. We worship God in spirit and in truth without any visual assistance and imagery.


Romans 1:23 - and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Exodus 20 - 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:



You said:

According to you, does God have genitals? And facial hair? And armpit hair?

The Bible says:


John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.


Jesus, the Word, who is God, became flesh, became a human being. Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day.


Luke 2:21 - On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived.


The Bible already describes how God looks like in His heavenly glory. The Bible already describes God, the Word, Jesus, who became a human being and was circumcised on the eight day and was born a Jew.


I don't know about Jesus being God (that opening a whole other can of worms), but God's Law (Word) did become 'flesh' (ie. physical).


Wrong again. Read John 1:1 and John 1:14. Its not that difficult to read and understand my friend. You understand based on your bias and not according to biblical scriptures.



Originally posted by amitheone
Anyone who does not accept that Jesus Christ who is God who became flesh is an Anti-Christ.


Nope. That is man's own (in this case your's) belief, and nothing to do with God (not even in the Bible), and those God sent. An Anti-Christ would be someone who comes in place of Christ (where 'Christ' means 'The Messiah'), and Muhammad completely rejects that role (Muslim's believe that Jesus was the Messiah).


Wrong again. Read this verse:


2 John 1:7 - Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.


Kindly refer to my previous post. I’ve already explained this. But for your convenience:

Now, what does the verse means when it says, "Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. "

First, who is Jesus?

1. Jesus is God, the Word was God –


"John 1 - "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning."


2. The Word became flesh, Jesus Christ became flesh –


"John 1 - 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

....

Having understood the verses above, it is concluded and understood well that God became flesh. Jesus Christ became flesh. Anyone who does not acknowledge that God, Jesus Christ, who became a man or flesh is a deceiver and an antichrist. The verse is clear about this. If anyone opposes, they are simply not of God. They are all antichrist and deceivers for they do not agree nor acknowledge that Jesus who is God became flesh or a human being in order to save mankind from his sins. Very easy to understand and no further arguments are necessary.

.... continued

[edit on 7/28/2008 by amitheone]



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 11:49 PM
link   

You don't use 'unsure words'? You think God can be perfectly and completely fitted into such a word as 'father'?


We call God our Father in heaven. God calls us His children. We are the children of light.


Matthew 6:9 - "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,

Romans 8:16 - The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Ephesians 5:8 - For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light

1 Thessalonians 5:5 - You are all sons of the light and sons of the day.


I don't think there is a verse in the Koran which states the above. Perhaps, Allah don't really call Muslims his children nor do Muslims call him father. Allah is just an "object" of worship without any relationship at all.



What do you think 'Allah' means? It is exactly that: The God. Allah wasn't the moon god. The moon God (as worshipped by the pagan arabs was Hubal. Hubal is clearly distinguished from Allah in the Quran and Hadith, and worship of Hubal is deemed useless. I use common sense, but hey, here are some references too: Battle of Uhud: Note the end, especially.


Wrong again. I already explained this. Do not ignore the facts please. Of course Allah is god to the Muslims. But evidence suggest and points that Allah was the moon-god. Its symbol is on top of the mosques.

Evidence 1:

Mosques - Today





Sumerian moon-god worship:





Evidence 2



Evidence 3



Can you tell which one belongs to Islam? Hint: The other one is a Tibetan Buddhist Pole.



Muhammad didn't sanction use of the Crescent moon (and star) as a logo. The Quran didn't. Early Islam didn't. It came with the Turks, who first used it as a secular symbol to denote their authority, and later on it became part of 'Islamic Architecture'. Doesn't make it right. The Cross is on top of almost all Churches I've seen. Does that mean Christian's worship it?


Not so.

The cross was never a Christian symbol to begin with. Perhaps what you are referring to is the pagan Roman Catholic Church. If Mohammed didn’t sanction the use of the crescent moon, then why is it still on top of the mosques? Why didn't they listen to Mohammed? I thought Muslims highly regard Mohammed and obey whatever he says? Why didn't they obey him? Of all the places they can put the pagan crescent symbol, they conveniently place it on top of the minaret to display and show everyone how exalted the idols are. Why don’t they destroy it to this very day? Its very simple. Take a hammer and crush it. Why ignore the idol on top of the mosque? So, its really ok to have the symbols of pagans in there? Just close one eye and hope no one notices? I thought the mosque is a holy place? Or, is it really part of Allah worship?

I’m a bible based Christian, and I don’t use the cross or any graphical symbolism and I will happily destroy it in my house. This only belongs to the pagans.

One thing about the pagans, is that their patterns of worship are strangely similar as if it has a common origin and worshiping the same god.

Evidence 4



When pagans pray, they repeat their prayers together with prayer beads to keep track how many times they have repeated their prayers. The bible forbids this.


Matthew 6:7 (NKJV)

And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Matthew 6:7 (NLT)

"When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered only by repeating their words again and again.


Islam


A prayer is made up of a sequence of units called bowings (rak'as). During each of these units, the worshiper stands, bows, kneels, and prostrates while reciting verses from the Qur'an as well as other prayer formulas. With some variations among different Muslim sects, at noon, afternoon, and evening prayers, these units are repeated four times, while during the sunset prayer they are repeated three times, and at dawn only twice. The opening chapter of the Qur'an, al-Fatiha, is repeated in each unit in a prayer sequence. Each prayer concludes with the recitation of the profession of faith followed by the greeting "may the peace, mercy, and blessings of God be upon you."

mb-soft.com...


Roman Catholics


Even though Novenas are very popular to Catholics, you may have seen a few Novenas come through your mailbox like the Novena to St. Theresa. They are a traditional Catholic method of prayer. They are a series of prayers that are recited for 9 days straight or 9 hours straight. A novena is offered as a sacrifice to God because it is a sign of devotion. And during this prayer devotion, the person saying the novena asks a specific request or intention.

www.drstandley.com...


Video:

www.youtube.com...

Buddhist

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Witchcraft

www.youtube.com...

....

It is very surprising how similar they are. One leads to conclude that they all worship the same god. The same practice is involved. The same repetitious prayer practice is involved. The same symbol is involved. Everything is the same.

The only odd one out is the Bible. It forbids graphical symbolism of any kind. It forbids idolatry. It forbids repetitious prayers.

And, all of your other arguments is not scriptural. Forgive if I don’t reply them anymore. Make an effort to do some serious research please, otherwise, it will be set aside.



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 07:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by babloyi

Originally posted by heliosprime
allah and muhammad are satantic, evil, vile liars defiling mankind..........

I'm sorry, but repeating it again and again won't make it true. Do you have anything else to add?


Then please explain this...........


MUHAMMAD'S EARLY TERRORIST ACTS

After moving to Medina, Muhammad began to have conflict with the Jews and pagans in the area. I'll focus on several incidents, not necessarily in chronological order, that illustrate Muhammad as a terrorist.

The first terrorist incident involves Muhammad's command to his followers to "kill any Jew who comes under your power".

From Guillaume, op cit, page 369:

"The apostle said, "Kill any Jew who falls into your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?' Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'"

END OF QUOTE


answering-islam.org.uk...

How is it that muslims are ordered to murder Jews if not directed by satan? To the end of the bible Judah are the chosen who still keep the covenant. islam was invented to kill all the chosen of God, all hebrew not just Judah.

Here is a good site that explains how totally corrupt islam actually is:

www.biblebelievers.org.au...



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 07:23 AM
link   
reply to post by amitheone
 


Originally posted by amitheone
You are confused my friend. You correlate God creating man after his own image as idolatry.

I am sorry, but I am not the one confused. I did not make any such correlation. I made a connection between idolatry and making an image of God (in one's imagination or otherwise). You apparently agree with me. The description you gave was of Jesus (or someone who looked like the son of man). Definitely not God. Why? Because no one can see God and live (Exodus 33). If John had actually seen God, he would be really dead, and not 'as though dead'.

Since you go on and on about how Jesus was God (you're co-religionists don't agree with you there- it's funny how on one side heliosprime is adamantly trying to convince me that Jesus was the SON of God, while you are trying to convince me he is God himself), I suppose I can bring up a few points. While Jesus was 'in the flesh' (as you call it), he prayed to God. He said "The Father is greater than I". He admitted that perhaps his will may not always match that of the Father, and that God knew things that he did not. So are you saying that for Jesus's time on earth there were 2 Gods? Anyhow, it's obvious that belief is not unified on this. According to you, even heliosprime is an antichrist, because he does not believe that Jesus is God. This is a point for another thread, and there are many of them here. Feel free to post your thoughts there.

Again you reference 2 John 1 while adding your own parameters. It says nothing about Jesus being God. It says Jesus Christ (Jesus the Messiah). The verse is very clear about this. It does not say "anyone who does not believe that Jesus was God".

reply to post by amitheone
 


Originally posted by amitheone
Wrong again. I already explained this. Do not ignore the facts please. Of course Allah is god to the Muslims. But evidence suggest and points that Allah was the moon-god. Its symbol is on top of the mosques.

You are telling me not to ignore the facts? That's somewhat ironic, don't you think? Here, let me lay it out for you in simple, point-by-point form:

* Muslims do not worship the moon (or sun, or stars or any physical thing or image).
* Muslims are told not to worship Hubal and Baal in the Quran. Hubal and Baal are very clearly distinguished from Allah in the Quran, in Hadith, in history.

and since you didn't care to notice it last time (I was sure the bolding would do the trick!), here it is again:
* The crescent moon was a symbol that was used by the Byzantine Christians. It was taken from them by the Turks as their flag centuries after Muhammad died. It is in no way the official symbol of Islam. Islam doesn't have an official symbol (idolatry again).

I really don't know what else I can do. Do I have to continuously repeat the last point for it to be understood?



Originally posted by amitheone
The cross was never a Christian symbol to begin with. Perhaps what you are referring to is the pagan Roman Catholic Church. If Mohammed didn’t sanction the use of the crescent moon, then why is it still on top of the mosques? Why didn't they listen to Mohammed? I thought Muslims highly regard Mohammed and obey whatever he says? Why didn't they obey him?

Why didn't they obey him in what? Muhammad didn't say "Don't put a crescent moon on the top of a house of God". Just like he didn't say "Don't put the image of a rooster", or "Don't eat food that is too hot, it hurts". Also, the cross is on top of more than just Roman Catholic Churches. I don't know about taking hammers and crushing it, I believe that can be construed as religious intolerance. Why don't you go about smashing crosses you see on the top of churches?


reply to post by heliosprime
 

As to the hadith you quoted, it's funny that you forgot to mention the chain of narration. Let me help you there. It was narrated by Muhammad Ibn Ibi Muhammad (who is confirmed to be unreliable) on the authority of the daughter of Muhayyisa (who is not even known to exist). Even from the text itself, it is obvious the hadith is false, because the Muslims had a treaty with the jews, and if such a commandant to kill all jews was actually given, there would be a lot more incidents reported than 1 false hadith.

As to your link, it is just a re-hash of all your old arguments (replied to in this thread and elsewhere). It even uses the same silly point about the crescent moon on mosques, along with testimony from a taxi driver!

[edit on 29-7-2008 by babloyi]



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 07:58 AM
link   
reply to post by heliosprime
 


Heliosprime,

Islam is the ONLY religion that brought back the true worship of God, not the other way around as you claim. They have only ONE GOD, same as the teachings in the TORAH. The New Testament started the apostasy, turned people away from the worship of ONE GOD by ascribing a partner to Him, Jesus.

Jesus himself never taught this and on the Day of Judgment he and his true disciples will testify against the Children of Israel, not for... but against.



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 02:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by heliosprime
 


Heliosprime,

Islam is the ONLY religion that brought back the true worship of God, not the other way around as you claim. They have only ONE GOD, same as the teachings in the TORAH. The New Testament started the apostasy, turned people away from the worship of ONE GOD by ascribing a partner to Him, Jesus.

Jesus himself never taught this and on the Day of Judgment he and his true disciples will testify against the Children of Israel, not for... but against.



As is typical for islam you are close but not correct.

Jesus did teach the worship of his father. He is our saviour and did die for our sins. Man is so full of vile, none can approach God without cleansing from Jesus. As satan accuses man, Jesus defends based on the book of life.

We are to worship the Father as Jesus did and does. allah IS NOT the God of Abraham, he is the moon god of old. A God want-to-be who fools many. Much of modern christianity is way off course from the true gospel of Jesus. islam is just plain wrong because it does not see Jesus as saviour, only a prophet who can before muhammad.

The 12ers will prove the true origin of islam. They will bring forth the anitchrist. Many who were lead astray will repent. But still more will not.

Those who believe in the rapture will follow the antichrist, because they have been fooled. The antichrist will unite all the false teachings into one great false religion. He will fulfil the false teachings of both islam and modern christianity. Perhaps even some mislead jews too who believe the messiah never came.

It is my theory that the 12th mahdi is that great false messiah and muhammad IS the false prophet spoken of in Revelations.



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 02:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by bubbles75
Yes that is exactly what the first Christians believed until the emperor rewrote the bible and killed the original Christians. There are many bibles around that support the Muslim version, it was the pope that discredited some bibles for others and lost many others... Besides why muslims and not Jews or Hindus? Muslims beleive that Jesus will return and save the world, Jews don't, Hindus don't, buddhist don't...only Mulsims and Christians beleive in the second coming of Jesus so you saying that MUSLIMS are the anti christ..well...it's a bit weird isn't it?




If anyone is going to be the anti-Christ it will probably be a Christian or Roman Catholic figure. You think all those books, theories, and movies that toy around with the Roman Catholic Church and its true evil nature are all fictitious, but they gain this prospective from evidence found in the bible.



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 08:14 PM
link   

The description you gave was of Jesus (or someone who looked like the son of man). Definitely not God. Why? Because no one can see God and live (Exodus 33). If John had actually seen God, he would be really dead, and not 'as though dead'.


You are reading and understanding it wrong again. Don't read the Bible with one theme on your mind “Jesus is not God”, “God cannot be a man”, and etc. With this bias to your disadvantage makes you close minded and deceive only yourself. Read the Bible like a newspaper. You don’t read a paragraph or 2 sentences in a newspaper and understand the whole report already, you read the whole report. The way I see it is that you pick up one or two sentences or a paragraph in the bible while neglecting to read the other books and chapters, and you develop your own conclusion based on your bias and the Koran. This is very common and classic to those who want to believe what they only want to believe.


Since you go on and on about how Jesus was God (you're co-religionists don't agree with you there- it's funny how on one side heliosprime is adamantly trying to convince me that Jesus was the SON of God, while you are trying to convince me he is God himself),


This the effect of not reading and understanding the Bible well. You are reading it and understanding it wrongly friend.


I suppose I can bring up a few points. While Jesus was 'in the flesh' (as you call it), he prayed to God. He said "The Father is greater than I". He admitted that perhaps his will may not always match that of the Father, and that God knew things that he did not. So are you saying that for Jesus's time on earth there were 2 Gods?


I've read this reasoning countless of times already. He said that the Father is greater that I because He took the form of a humble servant, stripping everything of His power and glory and became a human being. "A servant is not greater than his master" - Jesus said this because He was still in the flesh, my friend. The Father is in heaven in all His glory, The Son or The Word, is on Earth, in the flesh. Is a human being greater than God? So, when Jesus was crucified, He died and God raised Him up from the grave on the 3rd day. He ascended to heaven exalted again having the same glory, power, honor, and authority as the Father. When you read that verse again, Jesus said to the Father, "The glory which I had with you before the world began". For Jesus and the Father are one, only ONE GOD.

Did you get it? I can elaborate more with verses.


Anyhow, it's obvious that belief is not unified on this. According to you, even heliosprime is an antichrist, because he does not believe that Jesus is God. This is a point for another thread, and there are many of them here. Feel free to post your thoughts there.


The verse is clear about what it says. It does not matter who you are and what you claim. You are an Antichrist by simply denying that God, Jesus Christ, The Word, became a human being – “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us”. Any opposing view to this, is an Antichrist. No compromise on the truth. One does not understand nor even can hear this because He is not of God. They will only reason out to their destruction.


Again you reference 2 John 1 while adding your own parameters. It says nothing about Jesus being God. It says Jesus Christ (Jesus the Messiah). The verse is very clear about this. It does not say "anyone who does not believe that Jesus was God".


Again, friend, as I have said, don’t read only one sentence or one paragraph of the bible. Don’t deceive yourself. Read the whole book.

All cults of Christianity and Islam claim this very clearly that “Jesus is not God” , “Jesus is just a man”, and “How can God be a man” and “Jesus is just a god” and “God is only a title.” It’s a good thing actually for we can distinguish who is of God and who is not. As I said, anyone irregardless of who you are if you oppose this verse “Jesus Christ who is God, became a human being” is an Antichrist. You are of your father the devil for there is no truth in him. When he speaks, he speaks in his native language, for he is a liar and a father of lies.


I really don't know what else I can do. Do I have to continuously repeat the last point for it to be understood?


Of course, you are defending Islam, I can understand that. A good research will show that Islam is just another pagan religion. Did you see the strange similarities? Can you tell me why? I would really like to hear from you.


Why didn't they obey him in what? Muhammad didn't say "Don't put a crescent moon on the top of a house of God". Just like he didn't say "Don't put the image of a rooster", or "Don't eat food that is too hot, it hurts". Also, the cross is on top of more than just Roman Catholic Churches. I don't know about taking hammers and crushing it, I believe that can be construed as religious intolerance. Why don't you go about smashing crosses you see on the top of churches?


Don’t cover up the obvious friend. If a Christian brother erred, I will correct him. If he listens, good, if he does not, I would not judge him. But God’s word will. Read Revelation, they are seven different churches. God told some of the churches to repent.

One church is where even Satan has his throne and hold the teachings of the pagans (Nicolatians). God told them to repent, otherwise, they will be condemned.



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 12:05 AM
link   
reply to post by amitheone
 


Originally posted by amitheone
You are reading and understanding it wrong again. Don't read the Bible with one theme on your mind “Jesus is not God”, “God cannot be a man”, and etc. With this bias to your disadvantage makes you close minded and deceive only yourself. Read the Bible like a newspaper. You don’t read a paragraph or 2 sentences in a newspaper and understand the whole report already, you read the whole report. The way I see it is that you pick up one or two sentences or a paragraph in the bible while neglecting to read the other books and chapters, and you develop your own conclusion based on your bias and the Koran. This is very common and classic to those who want to believe what they only want to believe.

But you are doing the same also, no? Believing only what you want to believe? In this discussion, I do not believe I am taking on the role of a muslim trying to 'defend' islam. I am just pointing out flaws in the argument. If I read a newspaper, and one article is about a person being killed, I would not expect another article anywhere to be saying that the person wasn't killed.

So I can take that one single sentence for granted. When I read that God made a covenant with Abraham that is symbolised by circumcision, I would not be adding to it, and making it: "every male among you must be circumcised, and none should commit adultery" just because another passage condemns adultery. When I read one prophesy that talks of antichrists, I would not be adding to that prophesy to make it fit my own beliefs.



Originally posted by amitheone
I've read this reasoning countless of times already. He said that the Father is greater that I because He took the form of a humble servant, stripping everything of His power and glory and became a human being. "A servant is not greater than his master" - Jesus said this because He was still in the flesh, my friend. The Father is in heaven in all His glory, The Son or The Word, is on Earth, in the flesh. Is a human being greater than God? So, when Jesus was crucified, He died and God raised Him up from the grave on the 3rd day. He ascended to heaven exalted again having the same glory, power, honor, and authority as the Father. When you read that verse again, Jesus said to the Father, "The glory which I had with you before the world began". For Jesus and the Father are one, only ONE GOD.

Did you get it? I can elaborate more with verses.

Please do elaborate. So you are saying that now that Jesus is back in heaven, he is on equal footing with God? Because there is nothing to scripturally support that. Also, how exactly did this ONEness work while Jesus was on earth and the Father in heaven? Were they still the same thing then? Or were they 2 seperate beings (polytheism)? As for John 17:5, which you quoted, it's interesting that just a few lines above that is "that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent". Clearly 2 separate beings, with separate purposes.



Originally posted by amitheone
The verse is clear about what it says. It does not matter who you are and what you claim. You are an Antichrist by simply denying that God, Jesus Christ, The Word, became a human being – “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us”. Any opposing view to this, is an Antichrist. No compromise on the truth. One does not understand nor even can hear this because He is not of God. They will only reason out to their destruction.

Yes, the verse is VERY clear. It VERY CLEARLY prophesies who will be an antichrist. I ought to warn you- According to your own book: "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book". ADD NOTHING. It is what it is. And you said "As I said, anyone irregardless of who you are if you oppose this verse “Jesus Christ who is God, became a human being” is an Antichrist." Watch out!
. As for the Word being God, there is a very educational post here that you should read. Jesus doesn't call himself God, he calls himself 'a god', explaining that he means "to whom the word of God came".

But you've turned this into a discussion on the nature of Christianity! Once again, why is Islam the antichrist? All previous 'reasonings' given have been accounted for.

[edit on 31-7-2008 by babloyi]



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 12:48 AM
link   
Precisely as I was talking about, Babloyi. No matter how much I elaborate and spend time and effort explaining here, I don't think you would ever understand it, friend. Both of us will only go into a long loop. In short, "You're right, I'm wrong, you're wrong, I'm right" kind of conversation.

This is counter productive and there is a barricade.

Debates such as these are futile. However, God told us to test them by its fruit. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit nor a good tree bear bad fruit and by it's fruits you shall know them.

With this, debates are set side and time to get the bloodhounds to sniff what kind of fruits it is. They can be traced as they leave behind their marks. Remember the saying, "birds of the same feather, flocks together"? Do you understand this?

Care to tell me why the similarities of Islam among the pagan religions? Refer to my previous post above and study evidence 4. Understand it thoroughly.

Since we are talking about "anti-christ" here, I will show with evidence why Islam and pagan religions of the world have this mark and number of the anti-christ.

Answer the evidence 4 and I will continue showing evidences to you.



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 09:52 AM
link   
reply to post by amitheone
 


Originally posted by amitheone
Answer the evidence 4 and I will continue showing evidences to you.

Your honour, the prosecutor brings forth evidence 4 as proof that Islam is the anti-christ. I would like to point out, however, that Islam never sanctioned the use of prayer beads, and the practice of using them came much later. As for the picture of the mosque's minaret, this has been addressed already.



I don't think this will work either. It's still going to go on a back and forth of I am right you are wrong. But bring on the other 'evidences' anyhow.



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 11:02 AM
link   
reply to post by heliosprime
 


Beautifully written and very accurate!! Just curious, do you have a theology background? Or have you studied Islam?


[edit on 31-7-2008 by paxnatus]

[edit on 31-7-2008 by paxnatus]



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 08:36 AM
link   
reply to post by paxnatus
 


Just and old jarhead..................yes I have "researched" islam and others things.

(author waits for the slap on the head that always follows)



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 10:52 AM
link   
Look the bible or new testiment didnt start the belief Jesus is God. That was the roman cathics. The bible teches the Jesus is the Son of God. God is one and one only Jesus was first born creaton of God.

John chapter 6 I think v 33 bread of life

For I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him whom HAS SENT ME. Jesus was seen praying and talking to God many times. Jesus calls God his own God and father. Jesus worships God. Jesus when got baptised got God's spirit.

Islam is not the true religion if it was the would know God's Son. Islam promotes killing other and there own. Tho salt not kill. Islam thinks you can have wifes in heaven. (so we can have sex in heaven So stupid are you). Why dont you ask God what is true and what he want you to follow. other than believe what those people teach you.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 10:42 AM
link   

Your honour the prosecutor brings forth evidence 4 as proof that Islam is the anti-christ. I would like to point out, however, that Islam never sanctioned the use of prayer beads, and the practice of using them came much later. As for the picture of the mosque's minaret, this has been addressed already.


Islam never sanctioned them and later on it came later?? Islam never sanctioned the use of prayer beads, but later on, used it, but it doesn't mean it's pagan practice. Contradictory my friend. Its like I was never a smoker, but today, I smoke. But that doesn't mean I'm a smoker.


Sorry, pal, you need to do better than that. It is not at all satisfactory. I give you an "F". Shame on you.


It seems that you lack knowledge of the world's religion. But, hey, knowledge can be acquired with hard work. I'll give you time if you want to do some research on it. Otherwise, you won't know what I'm saying. It's all new to you. It will be fair on you if you make some time to do some research.


I don't think this will work either. It's still going to go on a back and forth of I am right you are wrong. But bring on the other 'evidences' anyhow.


Well, its either you accept the evidences or just turn a blind eye on it. Its your choice.

Islam is pagan.

Show evidences then its not. No need to explain. Just make a commentary on the evidences to show Islam is not pagan, if you have any evidences at all to show.




new topics

top topics



 
1
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join