Attack America Now

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posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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Fiat I have already said my country has blood on it hands and is and has been resposible for the deaths of millions and continues to commit murder in illegal wars.

The point I was making about Americans being owned by us I mean Europeans. Who do you think set up the US a bunch of farming pioneers I dont think so. Those same rich and powerful families who ran and run Europe are running the show today as they have done for hundreds of years and they arein the US. Just go and look at who has all the money and the power its been in the same families for hundreds of years. If you dont believe me just do a little research and you will soon find out.




posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:18 PM
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Con, thats a nice try, but as you have convinced yourself I am a liar why are you asking me to challenge you when what ever I post you wont believe anyway so why should I go to all the trouble to prove you wrong just so you can shout back liar.

I am quite aware of what the PNAC document says and it is quite clear that its principles are being followed. That is that the World should be formed in the American way for the betterment of the American people. Its a Neo conservative document that sets out it goals and how it seeks to achieve them. Simply saying that its not a Goverment document and therefore holds no credibility is like Bush saying the Constitution is a dam bit of paper.


GOAL OF SECRETARY OF COMMERCE








By Jerome R. Corsi, Ph.D.

September 6, 2006
NewsWithViews.com

Is SPP an Executive Branch Coup d'Etat?

Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez has declared advancing the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America to one of his top goals, writing in a letter archived on the Department of Commerce website that “I have made the SPP one of my top priorities and will utilize the talents and expertise of the people across the Department of Commerce to ensure the SPP is a success.”

Secretary Gutierrez began his letter with obvious enthusiasm:

I would like to bring your attention to an exciting new initiative that is a high priority for President Bush, me, and the entire Bush Administration: the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP). This initiative was announced on March 23, 2005, by President Bush, President Fox of Mexico, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. It establishes the framework under which the three countries will seek to create a safer and more prosperous North America over the coming years.

Secretary Gutierrez next laid out an explanation of how “security” and “prosperity” fit together, using language that carefully replaced reference to the United States of America to language embracing the concept of “North America” as an economic and political reality.

First, Secretary Gutierrez addressed “security.”

The SPP is built around the two, complementary objectives of greater security and prosperity. In the security sphere, we will aim toward a common security strategy focusing on:

Securing North America from external threats;

Preventing and responding to threats within North America; and

Streamlining the secure and efficient movement of legitimate and low-risk traffic across our shared borders.
Then, Secretary Gutierrez logically moved to “prosperity.”

In the prosperity sphere, the countries will focus on: Improving productivity;

Reducing the costs of trade; and

Enhancing the joint stewardship of our environment, facilitating agricultural trade while creating a safer and more reliable food supply, and protecting our people from disease.
This tautological language was designed to present objectives that looked obviously reasonable and important, almost Orwellian in their crafting. It takes attention to detail to note that the security and prosperity definitions virtually demand our borders with Mexico and Canada be erased, all in the interest of “streamlining,” “shared borders,” and “reducing the costs of trade,” all the while protecting our environment, our food, and our health.

The critical part of Secretary Gutierrez’s letter came next, however, when the Secretary of Commerce explained how tri-lateral cabinet-level working groups would be created in the three governments with a mission to rewrite a broad array of administrative laws all to be accomplished strictly within the executive branches of Mexico, Canada, and the United States.

Secretary Gutierrez enters the discussion by bragging about the importance of the role he is assigned to play:

Organizationally, I am jointly responsible for the economic, or prosperity, component of the SPP, with my Canadian counterpart, Minister of Industry David Emerson, and my Mexican counterpart, Secretary of Economy Fernando Canales. Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, jointly with his Canadian and Mexican counterparts, is responsible for the security component. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, jointly with her Canadian and Mexican counterparts, will ensure that the two components are integrated and that the SPP advances our strong relations with Mexico and Canada.

This explanation of how the “working groups” were to be organized and managed proved to be more detailed even than the explanation given on SPP.gov, the website Secretary Gutierrez created within the Department of Commerce to manage this new “tri-lateral initiative.”

Nowhere in the letter does Secretary Gutierrez make any reference to the U.S. Congress. Instead, he invites inquiries to Geri Word who works within the International Trade Administration (ITA) office of the Department of Commerce, giving out her phone number as 202-482-1545 and her email as geri_word@ita.doc.gov.

A new “Myths vs. Facts” addendum has been added to the SPP.gov website, representing an attempt to deflect criticism. Here the Department of Commerce attempts to discredit the “myth” that “The SPP was an agreement signed by Presidents Bush and his Mexican and Canadian counterparts in Waco, TX, on March 23, 2005.” In the “Fact” response, SPP.gov openly admits that the SPP declared in Waco on that date was little more than a press release:

The SPP is a dialogue to increase security and enhance prosperity among the three countries. The SPP is not an agreement nor is it a treaty. In fact, no agreement was ever signed.

The goal of the “Myth vs. Facts” seems to be to reposition the entire SPP process as a mere “dialogue.” If the Department of Commerce were to openly admit that SPP.gov is rewriting U.S. administrative law, Secretary Gutierrez would need some the Constitutional justification to underpin his enthusiasm for combining with Mexico and Canada. Are we to seriously believe that pure dialogue, an exchange of intellectually challenging tri-lateral ideas is the reason Secretary Gutierrez has boasted that advancing SPP is one of the most important objectives of his office?

Working groups rewriting U.S. administrative laws in areas ranging from e-commerce, to steel policy, to energy policy, to aviation control, to border crossing policy, to environment (to mention just a few) are arguably creating the legal infrastructure for a regional government to emerge by administrative fiat.

Yet, there is no provision in the U.S. Constitution that justifies the executive branch to rewrite U.S. administrative law without formulating a treaty that must be submitted to the Senate for ratification by a two-thirds vote. These are the cold realities Secretary Gutierrez and SPP.gov seek to side-step with their reassuring “security” and “prosperity” platitudes.

Robert Pastor, the American University professor who is the leading contender for the title “Father of the North American Union” has provided much of the intellectual arguments for the logic underlying SPP. Pastor has argued for an incremental process of creating a North American Union, beginning with a “dialogue” that sounds uncomfortably like the politically correct definition of its mission as presented by SPP.gov itself.

Pastor in an article entitled “NAFTA is Not Enough,” argued for an incremental process that could head toward the creation of the NAU, all the while providing cover for participating politicians and governments to deny that creating the NAU was their goal. In this essay, Pastor wrote:

Europe has struggled with these questions for nearly fifty years, and its members still have not clearly decided on their destination. NAFTA is only eight years old, and its project from the beginning was much more modest than the EU’s. While the three governments of North America are unlikely to step into the debate on long-term goals at the current time, nongovernmental organizations, research institutes, and universities should fill the void with new ideas and old-fashioned cross-border dialogue.

Pastor begins the next paragraph by advising “the likely path the three governments are to take is the status quo with modest adjustments.” He concludes the paragraph by commenting: “All three governments could surprise themselves by taking a great leap forward, but this seems possible only if there is a dramatic crisis of some kind.”

Dr. Pastor seems to prescribe that a fear formula is all that is needed for the American people need to begin begging SPP to produce the NAU right now. Pastor openly writes as if the next 9/11 terrorist attack or a future outbreak of some health epidemic such as the avian flu could be just what the NAU doctor ordered as the prescription for the American people to abandon sovereignty in favor of super-regional government control, all in the interest of “security” leading to “prosperity.” Or, is it “prosperity” which necessitates more “security” via surrender to Big Brother government?

Disinformation and deniability are the two key concepts of the SPP modus operandi. We have to look no further than the “Myth vs. Facts” debunking document recently posted on the SPP.gov website to see the anticipated denial:

The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.



If SPP.gov is not aimed at a massive re-write of U.S. administrative law in a tri-lateral “harmonized” and “integrated” format, than why not just shut SPP.gov down? As Robert Pastor pointed out, “dialogue” can occur within universities. Reading the SPP.gov attempt at denial, we are reminded of Réné Magritte’s famous painting entitled “Ceci n’est pas un pipe.”



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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Con, the idea of the NAU may be in its infancy but the EU started with the common agricultural policy and look where it lead to. To simply deny that the NAU would not or could not happen is plainly wrong when the first steps have already been taken.

The US and Canada need cheap labour and they will get that in the form of Mexican migrant workers just as more of the poorer Eastern block countries have joined the EU their labour markets are being exploited for cheap labour. Why pay for expensive artisans when you can get cheap ones elsewhere. The UK right now is beeing flooded with Polish and Ukrainian workers who will work for a dam sight less than we will.

And going back to my previous post its quite clear that the Neocons who are running the show are following PNAC page by page in its ambition for global supremacy you cannot deny that no matter what you say. Actions speak louder than words and we can see America's actions on a daily basis. And as such if America continues on this path sooner or later it will lead to its destruction by the means of a 3rd World war, a war that many think has already started.

You said If Bush had not attacked Iraq another one would of, why on what grounds may I ask. Iraq posed no possible threat to America or anyone else and you know that full well so why the invasion, why all the murder and mayhem. The same for Afganistan, that idiot Rumsfeld tried to do a deal with the Taliban over the new fuel lines and they backed out of the deal then we have the invasion of that country on the lies of an alleged terrorist is hiding in a cave.

You keep telling me that none of this is true yet the evidence is there. Now its Iran in the firing line with Syria and Korea on the list. As I said before its all going to plan is it not. All those nations, the rogue ones that is are called so because they dont want to be assimilated into the American way so therefore the lies and disinfo start as a reason for an ivasion and then you put in an puppet Goverment controlled by the US for the US's own interest.

And again to your challenge if you cannot even agree here on one point I have rasied because in your OPINION its all crap well thats all you have an opinion just like I have and yours is of no greater or less value than mine. Start agreeing with my points and I might consider it but I am not going to waste all my valuable time with a blind ignoramous who flatly refuses to acknowledge whats going on in his own country and what it is doing abroad.

And I like the little notice board you have done for me, every word, sentence and paragraph a true one, I did not realise that you liked me that much, I might just start my own fan club of loyal American followers such as yourself.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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Then if that is the case MM, then shouldn`t you have titled this topic "Attack The Banking Elite Now"? You should be down playing the system, and not the people. I lost an uncle in WW2 because of being brainwashed by this system, do you think I like it? Hell no I don`t. And many others in this country feel the same way I do. There are many like Con who served in the military that can see through this crap and talk about it, they don`t like it either. Maybe if the people of this world would just up and stop paying taxes and those in the military would just stop and say nope, were done killing for this elite system, then maybe the elite would get the message. Am I wrong on this? You can`t blame people when they have been lied to for so many years and have had the world around them painted one color by the elite, when in fact it`s really another color. Please, go kick the teeth of the elite, and not just the people, we`ll help and hold them for you, in this country and yours.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by FiatLux]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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FIAT, I stated that I named this thread as I did to draw attention to the problem of whats really going on. And I agree with you overall its not the people but I have said this before in that the people fall into 3 groups. There are those who are aware of whats going on, there are those who do not and there are those who agree with and support the actions of their Goverment whom ever that may be.

Now the problem is that the people who are aware feel that they do not have the support or leadership they need to bring about change.

The people who are unaware need waking from their mind controlled slumber which again can be quite difficult but we must try.

The third group are those I call the brain dead pariots where the mind control trick has been a complete success and no amount of arguing or pursuading is going to change their minds. They are so entrenched in their beliefs that they can see nothing else. This group are the ones that do the dirty work for said Goverment., any goverment or leader.

I know the majority of Americans are not a bunch of war mongering baby eating mad men but the problem is that for the American people as a whole that is the way they are being perceived abroad rightly or wrongly. And again any action taken to stop the madmen in charge will inevitably mean that the American people will suffer for the actions of these people and their supporters.

But when faced with this problem what does one do, again if we were discussing Germany in the early 30's what would we say or do, if we new that war was coming would we or could we possibly stop it. I dont know, as you said before I dont blame the people entirely, we are all bombarded with lies, deceit and deception every day of our lives to the point that people do not know what is right or wrong what is reality or make believe.

All I believe is that if we do not break this chain we will be in another world war of a magnitude that defies description and to borrow an American phrase we will all be bombed back to the stone age but you can bet your life the perps behind all this will be nice and safe, secure with all their ill gotten gain's but we will just be one of billions of corpses. But maybe that is their grand plan. What is written on that stone in the US, a world with a population of how many half a billion, so whats in store for the rest of us.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
FIAT, I stated that I named this thread as I did to draw attention to the problem of whats really going on. And I agree with you overall its not the people but I have said this before in that the people fall into 3 groups. There are those who are aware of whats going on, there are those who do not and there are those who agree with and support the actions of their Goverment whom ever that may be.

Now the problem is that the people who are aware feel that they do not have the support or leadership they need to bring about change.

The people who are unaware need waking from their mind controlled slumber which again can be quite difficult but we must try.

The third group are those I call the brain dead pariots where the mind control trick has been a complete success and no amount of arguing or pursuading is going to change their minds. They are so entrenched in their beliefs that they can see nothing else. This group are the ones that do the dirty work for said Goverment., any goverment or leader.

I know the majority of Americans are not a bunch of war mongering baby eating mad men but the problem is that for the American people as a whole that is the way they are being perceived abroad rightly or wrongly. And again any action taken to stop the madmen in charge will inevitably mean that the American people will suffer for the actions of these people and their supporters.

But when faced with this problem what does one do, again if we were discussing Germany in the early 30's what would we say or do, if we new that war was coming would we or could we possibly stop it. I dont know, as you said before I dont blame the people entirely, we are all bombarded with lies, deceit and deception every day of our lives to the point that people do not know what is right or wrong what is reality or make believe.

All I believe is that if we do not break this chain we will be in another world war of a magnitude that defies description and to borrow an American phrase we will all be bombed back to the stone age but you can bet your life the perps behind all this will be nice and safe, secure with all their ill gotten gain's but we will just be one of billions of corpses. But maybe that is their grand plan. What is written on that stone in the US, a world with a population of how many half a billion, so whats in store for the rest of us.


The PNAC is nothing to me, and I do not understand why people make such a big deal about it. We have always had a PNAC type of plan and globalization is a fact of life for everyone and you should not be so against American interests if America is to stay strong it is going to have to do it by being a strong and present force EVERYWHERE.


Bin laden was not hiding in Afghanistan. Gee that is funny, even the Taliban admitted he was there.



I think if we should just go kill the Rothschild’s and all the power families you are talking about if they are the ones controlling our country.

Oh and by the way MM, I am NOT happy with our Government, not in the least and a coming election I am voting for McCain.

I cannot stand Obama because he is a damn communist and I do not like McCain but I like him better than I cannot stand the rookie Obama because he is a damn communist. Every Idea I hear Obama talk about, I have seen our country try before, they did not work then, and they will not this time either. Young people think it is a NEW idea because they have not seen it before but I have.

I think our country is in a quandary as if I have never seen it before and for the first time in my life; I am scared for her future. I see too many children on Ritalin because it is so much easier than regular parenting.

I see our Public Schools have turned into a state religion of Atheism and I do not think that is any better than a theocracy in fact it is worse if you consider they think they have such a problem with Christians.

Wait until they get a load of how hard it will be with an influx of Muslims coming here. You see I KNOW what they want to do, and I have seen it happen to places where they will never be the same again. France, Belgium, Spain just to name a few. They cannot do a damn thing over there without the Muslims making a big stink about it and when you do not comply,, look what happened in Spain.

We have a worldview and they have a Worldview but the one they have is a worldview,



Without YOU.



There are Places around the world with great wealth because of their oil want power too. They want to have Nukes and we cannot allow that. No one can allow anyone willing to die for the sake of killing infidels to have nukes.

You can argue why shouldn’t they have them when we do, my Answer would be because the more places that have it the more likely it is going to be used somewhere. Those that have it now can be trusted with it so far we have all been lucky that way. However, Islamists are not like you and I.

Most believe it is al about Oil and yeah it is but what people fail to realize is just how tenable our dependence on Oil is. We are there for a reason and some of us get it some of us do not. Others still think the world would all be one big happy place if the US did not mess with others affairs.

Those are the ones, you might call "without a passport" because they do not know what is going on out side there backyard. I have been to Africa, Egypt even Yugoslavia MM I have been around the planet twice in fact. I think Bush is an idiot and I do not believe he is a Christian. I think he fakes it. I know what he calls them behind there backs too.

Doesn't matter, I think the mistakes he made will turn out too be providential and for the greater good but I also believe the United States will suffer a great deal, NOT so much for what Bush has done, but for the kind of aimless sexually depraved drug addicted Godless society that we have become. Where evil cannot even be called evil because to do so is bigotry. You do not think I have written some nasty posts about this Country and the direction it has taken. Every Applause I ever had was for writing posts about my feelings, thoughts etc, on the Government.

The only issue I have had with you is that you embellish silly crap and the PNAC is silly crap. The NAU will happen but not like, you think because Americans Canadians and Mexicans do not want it. We are NOT Europe and if you have lived long enough you will remember the "metric" system.

Americans never went for that either even while Europe was claiming we would have to. You call me an old fool, and maybe I am Old fashioned and still like to believe in those ideals but I pedal a Bike 15 miles a day three days a week and can still bench 270 on a good day. I read everything I get my hands on and still love my country but am disappointed in many things we are doing and I blame most of it on a public who is screams about a Fascist state yet cannot see that everything they want is everything a fascist state is.

Materialism, humanism, secularism, gay marriage, and all the while we work further and further into making parents irrelevant until soon they will be raised and indoctrinated by our now totally Humanist Public school system churning out kids that do NOT honor their mother and father. They only care about not having their bisexual freedoms infringed by the evil Christian Radical right. Meanwhile Christians are all little wimps who do not have the guts to call sin a sin anymore for fear of offending someone.

I LIKED the old Atheists that gave Christians a Conflicting position so that the religious right did not go nuts turning us into a theocracy. I also understand that Christianity provides a conflicting role in society so that secular humanists do not go nuts having their every indulgence legalized and approved of until we start looking like Amsterdam. (No offense to the Dutch but Americans lack discipline) I liked a people who believed in a Higher Power so that higher power that gave us unalienable rights which means, NO MAN could take them away from us. The moment we take God out of the equation, we make Government the one that lords over us and our rights become "privileges" and can be taken from us.

I liked having a two party system that no matter who was in Office we had checks and balances or two conflicting positions again that are necessary whether you agreed with them or not, ONE side cannot exist without the other. What we have today are Gay Republicans living double lives as married Politicians with a totally left voting record and Democrats who are living double lives as liberals but have been espousing Communism forms of Government for years all the while they were in College. Instead of asking what Religion a politician is, we ask them if they believe in evolution. Another words, a slick way of asking are they deist or atheists. No, they do not ask them the real questions. The kind that really get a good grasp of who the son of a bitch running for office is about, what makes him tick. This is a republic! That means they only want to know where they stand on issues having to do with your lover or if they are going green. ASK THEM HOW THEY VOTED!

Get their voting record and a list of their major contributors and you will see who is corrupt and who is not in a matter of minutes.

I wrote a post about Senator Ted Stevens wanting to sell out to the telecoms when they were trying to get control of the internet. I Listened to Ted's speech and he sold us out to the telecoms just as I predicted in the post. How did I know?

Verizon, ATT, US Telecom and just about every single Telecom there was had given him so much money that this can be seen as nothing less than a bribe. Bribery is illegal you say? Not if you call it LOBBY, it isn’t.

When the republicans wanted to lift federal regulation off the Banks and finance, we did that and what happened? They had no conflicting Position to get in there way and they went nuts. The usury laws were all scuttled and one of the tenets of our constitution was the laws taken from the Bible where even in Finance we had always held a firm belief that the rich should NOT take advantage of the poor and that is just what been going on here for since the republicans did that. Democrats are no angels either. When Pelosi was talking tough and committed to getting that place in order if we swept them into power. I went for it and voted them in as they asked. They have been sitting on there do nothing asses ever since and I am voting every single incumbent OUT just because they reneged on what they said they would do.

Watch the Republicans fighting for our energy needs and the Democrats not even trying to come to a common ground. They refuse to vote on it!

Many, if not most people blame speculators for high prices. Bush announced an end to the Presidential Executive Order against drilling in the gulf. The next day, gas prices plummeted more than when Saudi Arabia said they would substantially increase production! The speculators got the message that is why. Even if it takes as long to get the oil, as it obviously will to re-industrialize our society to run on alternative energy sources, the impact of the decision will be immediate on gas prices, because oil futures will be increased dramatically. It isn't rocket science to see that.

Call Nancy (Mussolini) Pelosi. Let her know she works for us!
Go here to see shocking protest video from House floor:

www.grassfire.net...

They like to say, "tax cuts only help the rich." Well, seems a Democratic controlled congress has a much more clever way to help the rich. They will be taxing us to pay off their losses so they stay rich!

Click on the links:

Hundreds of Banks Will Fail

and the source article

"...the government is overregulating, bailing out troubled
participants and intervening in every market.

"The regulators should investigate themselves for bailing out Fannie
Mae (FNM.N: Quote
, Profile
,
Research
, Stock
Buzz ) and Freddie Mac
(FRE.N: Quote ,
Profile ,
Research
, Stock
Buzz ), the creditors of
Bear Stearns and the financial system with new lending facilities.
They have swapped U.S. Treasury bonds for toxic securities," he told
Barron's. "It is privatizing the gains and profits, and socializing
the losses as usual. This is socialism for Wall Street and the rich."

He said that sometimes it is necessary to use public money to rescue
institutions, but in a way that does not bail out the people who
made the mistakes. "In each one of these episodes, the government
bailed out the shareholders, the bondholders, and to some degree,
management," Roubini told Barron's."

Some very true points, especially "privatizing the wealth and socializing the losses..."

So whether I am someone you'll agree with or not is not the point MM, The point is I am involved and i stay involved and I have every confidence Americas best days are still ahead but we are in for a storm. I have lived through times like this before and seen people like you saying the sky is falling and America is a goner.


5-6 years later Americans found a way. I have no idea how they keep doing that but I always believed blessed is the Nation whose God is the lord and as for me and my house,,,

I too will serve the Lord.

- Con




[edit on 6-8-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Aug, 7 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Con, I respect you for what you say, It is more than likely that you have seen many changes within the US over the years some good and many bad. But the problem is is that the World is full of extremists and nut jobs and the US has its fare share. Did you listen to what Ann Coulter was saying about the Canadians, its people like her who are pissing on everyone else.

And as for Iran having nukes what about Isreal and the main problem is, is that when the Idiot Bush and his cronies state all options are on the table in dealing with Iran people then say well its the US and Israel that are threatening to nuke people and on one else is. Thats the problem is it not, whilst the people may not support the Goverment the Goverment is claiming its actions are for the people so therefore the people get the blame and not the Goverment and its corporate masters.

Just out of interest if the US/Israel did attack Iran what do you think the implications would be for those two nations in such a conflict. Can you see the conflict spiraling out of control and how will the US econnomy fare given the financial drain that Iraq is.



posted on Aug, 8 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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First you have to understand what is going on in the world.Taking america out will do nothing.What needs to be done is restoring the republic of the united states of america.As it stands today the united states is nothing more than a corporation owned by the world bankers.In fact most countrys are corporations owned by the world bankers.The reason for wars?When you fund both sides of a war it becomes very profitable.As they say follow the money.FDR sold us out by selling the bankrupt america to the world bankers who have been running this country ever since.They own not only the democratic party but also the republican party.They have installed maritime law which means you have no rights under the constitution.They indeed own the corporation known as the united states of america and until americans figure this out they to are owned by the world bankers.The plan is to take america out by forming the north american union.Then through thier underhanded efforts create more wars until people are willing to accept a one world government of thier making.Are you ready to become a slave?Thier will be no middle class just masters and slaves.Of course you may not of heard of the new world order.



posted on Aug, 8 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
CON, America is not all what you think it is, and if you cannot see the threat to Mankind then I'm affraid you need to open your eyes. America is the new Nazi state, the facts and details are there if you care to look. But its not about nationality its about recognizing a threat when its staring you in the face.

America is not immune to the effects of war or economic collapse, the sooner you realise that the better. If you think its size or power makes it safe then you are sadly mistaken, the country is bankrupt and the only thing that keeps it going is war and loans. Right now the US is loaning billions from China just to fight the war in Iraq, thats not a lie or disinfo its the truth. At the moment the Iraq war is costing the US 12 billion a month and every month and what benefit is it to you and your family, none. Falling education standards, crime rate going through the roof, people losing their jobs and homes and for what, just to fight a war for the rich and powerful.

And then there is the human cost, thousands dead, tens of thousands injured and it all has to be paid for by you and everyone else. We can either save America and its people now or we can let it go down the toilet which do you prefer.


so what you're saying is you arent american yet we americans are blind... this is the kind of crap that really erks me.... If you arent american then why do you bash what you dont experience first hand... Destroy america yeah that makes sence destroy those who defend your ass in time of need. its awfully easy for you to say this stuff when you dont agree with current administration but the minute it hits the fan you'll be begging for american support... its people like you that perpetuate ignorance and violence towards fellow men. The vast majority of americans are pissed about the state of our government. why dont you tell us where your from so i can check into all the crappy stuff your government is into... and im gonna agree with the posters who have said pissing off the general american public is a BAD idea.... we may not agree with our government but just try and mess with the people in general and you'll have a real fight on your hands you will waken the sleeping giant and all hell could break loose its time for the world at large to stop this bs and accept that we may not agree with our fellow man but we must respect him to throw us all in the same pot as our government is foolish. The minute one foriegn soldier hits american soil then the american military would become one of the entire nation we wont give up our freedoms and no one i repeat no one no country or amalgamation of countries wants to dip their pen in company inc meaning we provide alot of things for the entire world and attacking us would be of huge detrimant to any who try



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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With a reply such as that I can understand why you are contantly wondering, and some shock news for you there are foreign troops on US soil already. Perhaps you may wish to enlighten yourself about your own country and its actions abroad before spouting the usual patriotic tripe to others who know more about your own country than you do.



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
With a reply such as that I can understand why you are contantly wondering, and some shock news for you there are foreign troops on US soil already. Perhaps you may wish to enlighten yourself about your own country and its actions abroad before spouting the usual patriotic tripe to others who know more about your own country than you do.


who are these soldiers on american aoil are you reffering to the few mexican soldiers who have been trained for special reasons here or the russians who have had special training here? you make it sound like there are hordes of them and that they are ready to attack
anyway my schpeel may be patriotic whos to say i cant love my country your foriegn views are warped by media interpertation so i suggest you do something other than read liberal news.... I can put dollars to dimes that say 90% of americans would agree with me.... and my constant wondering isnt about neo-political non-sence is about the nature of things the bigger picture... so why dont you concern yourself with whats going on in your country and let us deal with our own affairs... seriously tell me where u are from so i can rip into your government.... you like to bag on americans but your to cowardly to say where your from so we can play on a level field typical neo-liberal nonsence....




[edit on 9-8-2008 by constantwonder]

[edit on 9-8-2008 by constantwonder]



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 09:03 PM
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2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.


This is a friendly reminder of the above Condition. There will be no discussion centered upon, or directed towards, another member. Period.

The topic of this discussion centers on whether or not there is a relevant reason for War towards America. Cite only examples and details.

Any further deviations from this Condition will lead to action being taken.



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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The War Against America
It isn't just the terrorists who want to see America laid low. Old Europe is, in its own way, attacking the United States, too. These forces of hostility are not to be taken lightly

"THE WAR AGAINST AMERICA has been on foot for some years. Its first manifestation came during the 1990s in the form of militant Islam's sporadic attacks on Americans outside the United States. This was followed by the Pearl Harbor of the new century in New York and Washington on September 11, 2001. All the while the world stood by and watched. It became the normal thing that America was attacked.

Lately the forces arrayed against America have grown to include mainstream Old European diplomacy, whose sabotage of the United States has spread from constant WTO harassment to full-blown hijacking of NATO and the hostile use of the U.N. Security Council. Year after year, Americans lose their lives by terrorism. American families suffer terrible grief. Old Europe and its surrogates all over the world struggle frantically to fetter Americans' efforts to protect themselves.

This is the War Against America.

Behind the bitter diplomacy lies an unspeakable truth: A great many people who live in wealthy countries are hostile to the United States and secretly believe that America deserves to suffer these attacks. True, they believe this in the abstract. They don't believe Americans as individuals deserve to be murdered. But what they believe--in ferocious, mindless hostility towards "America"--results in the regular slaughter of ordinary people just like themselves and their families, who happen to be citizens of the United States.

As a consequence, the murder of Americans has become not merely an object of complacency in wealthy Europe, but the inevitable outcome of its professed foreign
policy. Finally, Americans are waking up to this appalling new reality.

Why has this lunacy come about?

Plainly, America is a large presence. Often this tends to suffocate people, especially in wealthy countries. (Anti-American rage rarely erupts in poor or ex-Communist countries, unless motivated by militant religion or politics.) One can ask with some legitimacy: Can American corporations actually get larger, can its military forces grow even more powerful, can its entertainment culture grow even more dominant? Is there room for anyone else in the world?

Even those who admire America beyond what words can express ask themselves these questions. In the War Against America the casus belli seems less Iraq and its hidden weapons of mass destruction than America's size and success. True, French and Russian politicians are desperate to keep a lid on the Baghdad archives. But a large chunk of public opinion outside the United States has other motivations: It is now implacably hostile; it blindly condones the murder of Americans, whether by terrorist stunts today or WMD tomorrow. For some awful reason, it refuses to see America for what it really is--a large community of normal people--families, children, workplace colleagues--just like themselves. Instead it sees corporations, entertainment, and processed food. For some odd reason these things have given rise to an extraordinary malice.

Israel attracts Old European hatred not because it is Jewish but because it is protected by America. Many see it as an American surrogate. Yet it seeks only to protect its own citizens from murder. Its effectiveness in doing so is what infuriates Old Europe. After all, Israeli dead make nice surrogates, too. Creating a Palestinian state based on gangsterdom is only another way of expressing the anti-American blood-lust. "

The world is not unipolar. It is split. The split is real, and it is dangerous. It will not go away. Obsolescent institutions built on obsolescent notions of post-1970s international law--such as the United Nations, which is now a theme park for anti-American hatred--cannot cope with the modern reality of non-state actors and their ability to deliver destruction. Terrorist actors attack people with explosive devices; NGO actors attack democratic government with propaganda. Rather than preventing such attacks, multilateral institutions have begun fostering them.
The forces of hostility are not to be treated lightly. America's presence in the world is not going to get smaller; the feeling of suffocation will only diminish as poor countries grow wealthier. And the proliferation of WMD may already be beyond control because those who could help stop it--France, China, Russia, and Germany--wallow secretly in the lunacy that such proliferation acts as a check on America.

If a crude nuclear device is detonated in Baltimore or San Francisco, it won't be long before the act is repeated in Tianjin, Hamburg, Marseilles, or St. Petersburg.

But even then, they'll find a way to blame America. The War Against America is a war on all of us. Iraq is only a first step towards fighting back.

yeah that pretty much sums it up doesnt it now as i have pointed out before this devisive rhetoric is bad for the entire world we are americans we will defend our nation and i would like to ask the OP what is is that americans have done in his life to garner such hatred.... anyone can cite a bunch of news articles which are so biased its sickening or spew numbers from manipulated sources... what really do you think taking america out of the equation will do other than foster attacks on other western countries. in other words who is next you take out america then what? just what do you think that will accomplish other than devastating the world economy, opening the door for extremest to attack your country which i can almost guarentee is western (which extremest will target next) quit blaming the US for the entire worlds problems that will solve nothing why not try devoting some of your time to peaceful ideas... destroy america and open the door for anyone who wants to attack any western country.. that makes so much sence....


and MM b4 you attack me again perhaps you should read my thread on the state of the U.S. and maybe you will see that while im patriotic in that i love america i believe we her people must make changes

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

[edit on 9-8-2008 by constantwonder]



posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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CW, a little history lesson for you, whilst the UK was fighting the IRA for 30 years there were Irish Americans who actively took part in raising funds for said IRA, that is just one example of Americans supporting terrorism against other nations.

If you cared to do a little research you will find that there is proven facts of US involvement of supporting and forming many terrrorist organisations, overthrowing elected Goverments and supporting despot regimes.

The US openly courted and supported Saddam Insane a known despot and murderer of his own people yet the US backed him and supplied him with the means to fight the Iranians. The same very US that then fabricated evidence to say SI was behind 9/11 yet there was not one shred of proof to back that claim up.

Its quite simple America is attacked because it attacks others and the more you do this the more you will be attacked. Why people such as you think you can attack anyone you like but when they hit back you scream terrorists etc. Well no they are not and just as you stated before, the people of Iraq are doing just what you advocate, fighting against a foreign invader and aggressor.

America has Global ambitions and as such is a threat to every nation on this Planet just like the Nazis before them who saw themselves superior to all others and convinced themselves that they could do what they liked and wage war on anyone. The US is now following in those very same footsteps, you can be patriotic all you like but the simple fact remains that if the US continues on its present course in will be to the ruin of the nation and its people.

Please try and think outside of the box and look to the bigger picture and all that has gone before. The more desperate America becomes the more likelyhood of a major conflict. None of this is new, history is replete with such events and if you can see past your patriotic views you will see that power comes with a price and when you are at the top the only direction you can go in is downwards.

Hitler blamed the Jews for all the ills of Germany is America now blaming the Muslims for theirs. The UK and Germany borrowed money from the US to wage war against each other, the US is now doing the same, borrowing money to wage war, can you see the similarities here. Please dont make that basic mistake in thinking that it cannot happen in the USA, it can and it already has, there are those who will pay to kill anyone, you, your family and everyone you know. Dont believe me, just do a little reading on past Empires, despots and corrupt regimes.

The first trick in any warmogering nation is to make its people believe that they are superior and invincible and that is what those who control the US have done yet it must be a little disconcerting to find out that you cannot beat the people you attack, rob and murder, when you are told how powerful and strong you are. Thats because you are being lied to, the same principal was used during Vietnam and we all know the outcome of that conflict don't we.

Remember that unless you are part of the inner circle and I would gather that you are not, that none of these wars, conflicts or carpet bagging escapades will make you any richer, more safe or anything else. Its the opposite is it not, whilst America is waging these wars, corporate America and the parasites are getting richer and richer yet thousands of American families are losing their homes everyday, education standards and healthcare is falling, the cost of living is going through he roof, more and more jobs are being lost and the nation is being flooded with illegal imigrants.

All this is happening yet you think its great that trillions are being spent on bogus wars on terror and illegal wars. As an American I would like to ask you what is more important to you, the well being of your nation or the profit making of the corporate masters. Dont believe the lies of the Muslims are out to get you or anyone else is, they want you living in fear, fear of them, fear of your neighbours and fear of all things foreign to you. Fear isolates the individual, it is easier to control and manipulate an individual through fear more than anything else.

You are an individual with a mind of your own, open that mind and use it for what it was intended, detach yourself from the daily diet of lies and disinfo, it is a choice we can be drones or we can be sentient, what do you want to be?



posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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can't wait for the day americans all die!!!!



posted on Aug, 12 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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Meet the NEW boss! Same and the OLD Boss!

When are you d-bags going to wake up and realize that it is not "the people" of the U.S. or any other part of the world that declare war and murder the innocent...
Get your nose in the books and discover the fraternal organizations our leaders belong to, understand the doctorine of the frats and follow the rivers of blood to the Garden of Eden...
The masons the mormons the muslims the commies the neo-cons the popes the queen, of which ALL of the doctorine all points to the "all seeing eye" of Ra / lucifer you dip #s! this is what the bankers monarchs dictaters twisted polititions religions and all degenerate inbred reprobates have in common.
What we are all seeing on mezmoVison is Ordo Ab Chao / order out of chaos! the oldest trick in the book.
It is witchcraft and is as it has always been... The priests who manifest their agenda via the King... in our case G W B Jr is their puppet. The Tyrants who asses we kicked 200 + years ago are the wolves and right back in the hen house again! Barrack is there next puppet, decided by sorcery and divination a long long time ago.
We just need to get off our asses and "take out the trash" ! again ! Only this time we need to bury the trash!
It is blatantly obvious to me that the Great Experiment of our ingenious masonic forefathers, drew up their plans that would birth the greatest Nation in the History of the "known" world... Our God given inalienable rights by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were genious in deed !
However as our freedom of religion, was written into our rights, there in lies the true genious of our fore fathers and their back door to their actual "Great Plan"...
If the great plan had been " the continuance of freedom and the building up of this great nation", then we would now have more freedom, more wealth, and more resources than ever before. But it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that it was not the great plan...
For if that were truly the great work of which they had given their own lives for, they would have surely included in the drafting up of the constitution / bill of rights and amendments theretoit, a law that would protect the constitution, bill of rights and original amendments, from being subverted... Oh contrare...
For if that were truley the case an amendment would have been written into the drafting of the constitution, that would not allow members of subversive societies that have taken Blood Oaths or sworn oaths of any kind that supercede any oath taken upon inaguration of public county state or federal office...
Now you are starting to see... that the United States of America, was not, is not, nor never was meant to be the "Great Work" of our founding fathers... But simply the means to an end.
The Great Work of our Masonic founding fathers can be read and found in books, written by their leaders, Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, Francis Bacon, and others...
With much study you will find Masonry to be by far, the most powerful institution of "Mystery Babylon" the mystery schools, who's great work "is" and has "always been" brining there god lucifer to rule supreme over mankind in the New World Order...

Wakie Wakie Bombs and Bakie!



posted on Aug, 13 2008 @ 09:47 AM
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I can understand what you are saying, but maybe the USA really needs to sort its own country out first and take care of its own people before trying to rule the rest of the world.... for example:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 

Who are you? and what country do you hail from. I don't like what we are doing either and there are no easy answers. Your solutions don't sound good to me however. I would bet you are on a methadone clinic. I'm of the opinion that you are a drug addict living and dreaming a pipe dream.



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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557 post's and only 6 flag's...

OP what does that tell you?



posted on Aug, 14 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by beforetime
557 post's and only 6 flag's...

OP what does that tell you?



Probably tells him not everyone needs to get "flags" to get interesting, plentiful and such full responses.

Also, the reason for so few flags is that there are quite a few more (understatement!) americans on ATS than other nationalities. I don't imagine the majority would want to shout about this topic much!

Your"dig" just raises an interesting point doesn't it?, thanks.


Flagged!


I haven't read such an interesting and revealing thread for ages. Nice one MM.





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