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Attack America Now

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posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 06:19 PM
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Well america shouldnt be *taken* out....i dont think such actions are called for *yet*...the administration is a different storyl....but an attack on America from the international community? well yes we would win.....but most of us would die from cancer a few months later...nuclear weapons assure mutual destruction....there wouldnt be any americans left...but maybe a few of the rest of us...Not a very nice scenario...




posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by bubbles75
 


there is a differance between could and should,, now u are talking about what america is being accused of.. i.e submit to our ideas or die...



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by bubbles75
I think people that say we could have just killed everyone in Baghdad and taken their resources just proves that the US is a dangerous country. Basically if your goverment did that you would be OK with it. So now Genocide is fine...still wonder why Iran might think having nukes is smart??????? The best thing for America is for them to hand over their banking and media institutions to "other" people so that the people in the US can heal and be less medieval...if they don't agree then I agree with this thread they should be taken out seeing that the rest of the world doesn't want to be like them or be controlled by them, it's simple. It's the US or a better world. I also think Academia has failed in the US as have many other institutions, same criticism goes for the UK a complete change or the end, there is no other solution the brainwashing is too deeply entrenched and it has created a large group of people that are naturally hostile to everything and everyone else.


Are you aware that the US hasn't received one drop of Iraqi ah resources/oil. NONE!

Now maybe we have taken some of Afghanistan's resources / opium, but maybe you have more info on that than me.

By the way we have lost many brave Americans for their liberation from tyrany. You'd think we get a little go go juice for it!

Will



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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and what do u mean *yet* lethill.. the current war in iraq is one thing.. not all of us are behind that.. due to propaganda its all kind of confusing what the right path in this case is..many bitch about the U.S being there but no one wants to remember whythis initionally got started.. it was a shot at the corperate world.(not just america) and lets not forgett the people saddam slaughtered. as i'm sure their families dont. and i dont recall any other country calling for his head when he was useing gas to kill entire villages.. anyone remember what happened the last time america was there.(desert storm) the iraqie people held a revolt and had their ass handed to them because american troops pulled out to soon. at the insistance of the international community!!!

[edit on 26-7-2008 by scorand]



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Poet, I will stop name calling when others do same, I cannot list here all the names I have been called by various members on this thread including yourself so if you dont want to get shot put your gun down and I will do same.


Then maybe you'll quit alerting the mods for having your witto feewings hurt eh magic. You come here and insite a riot and the moment one starts you cry like a baby about name calling. Than like the liar and hiopcrite so many here have shown you to be, you say, Ill stop calling you names when you stop. I'd like to call you every name in the book because you deserve to be called every vulgar foul name in the book. You are one of the most manipulative liars I have seen here. You mentioned you were going to report two people conspiritology and poet for advocating an illegal war and the killing of innocent children.

I'd like to see the proof they ever said that?
Don't try to wriggle out of it mushroom, with some assumption, the logical fallacy of guilt by association, just simply show us please where either of them said that and then maybe everyone will see you are not a liar and not misrepresenting what people are saying here as so often seen alleged.

I think we would all like to know where you seen them post any words to that effect. Can you ? Please prove me wrong, I am eagerly awaiting your answer. If you can't and I'm absolutely certain you can not. Than I suggest what they have been saying here is true and all the names they have called you would most likely be because you are a liar and a charlatan.

That kind of tact is not conducive to civilized debate and you have yourself to blame. It is disrespectful unfair and hurts your credibility immensely. The other little factoid I want to point out is when you ARE proven wrong and you have been through the course of this thread where Wil Cons and poet have completely crushed your thread to a point beyond humiliation, you dogmatically keep on spewing the same stuff as if no proof was ever given in addition to accusing those who used evidence proving you wrong as if none was ever offered. Case in point:



William, you do realise that the NAU is coming to a town near you and you will see many of your current liberties removed, you are aware I pressume.


Conspiritology already proved beyond any doubt what so ever that the NAU paranoia you have is baseless totally unfounded an urban legend and had given the article here along with the link to the Governments own documentation where if you read it he was correct and yes, you are wrong.

Here it is again:


North American Union


Claim: The leaders of Canada, the United States, and Mexico agreed in 2005 to subsume their countries into a greater "North American Union" by the year 2010.


Origins: I've heard rumors going around recently that President Bush, Mexican President Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Martin met in Waco, TX in 2005 and agreed to create a North American Union (NAU). In this plan it was (supposedly) outlined that by 2010 the borders between the three countries would be dissolved and there would only be a common border surrounding the former countries. Further, the plan called for a purposeful reduction in the value of the dollar to help facilitate the creation of a new currency (the Amero) common to the NAU. Also part of the plan is for the US to give up its sovereignty.

Status: False.

In March 2005, the leaders of the United States, Canada, and Mexico (President George W. Bush, Prime Minister Paul Martin, and President Vicente Fox, respectively) met in Texas to

discuss plans for increased cooperation between their three countries in areas of common interest, such as border security, protection against terrorist threats, improved trade relations, competitiveness in the global marketplace, the combating of infectious diseases, and disaster response.

Contrary to the rumor expressed in the example quoted above, the three men did not sign any treaty or agreement to subsume the sovereignty of their countries to a greater entity called the North American Union (NAU), eliminate their common borders, or create a common currency (akin to the Euro) to replace their nations' currencies. What the leaders agreed to was the creation of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), a "dialogue to increase security and enhance prosperity among the three countries." The SPP is not itself an agreement or a treaty, it is not a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union or to establish a common currency, nor does it seek to alter or subsume the sovereignty of those three countries.

The notion that the establishment of a North American Union (along with the dissolving of national borders and the creation of a common currency) is set to take place in 2010 stems from proposals such as Building a North American Community (a publication of the Council on Foreign Relations in association with the Canadian Council of Chief Executives and the Consejo Mexicano de Asuntos Internacionales) which advocate more aggressive plans for North American cooperation, such as the "establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security community, the boundaries of which would be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter." However, such proposals are merely analyses and recommendations developed by independent "think tanks"; they are not treaties, legislation, or official blueprints for future governmental actions.


Last updated: 9 January 2008


Example: [Collected via e-mail, January 2008]
www.snopes.com...





Can I ask you how would you as an individual take this, are you for it or against it. Do you see it as a positive step in the right direction or do you see the US flooded with Mexicans and Canadians. Bearing in mind US citizens will be able to freely travel and live in those countries.


That's funny? Can you show us where in the governments NAU plan where it says all this stuff mushroom? Please show proof.

If you can not, then I submit that all the names people have called you are probably because you have lied and misrepresented our Government along with poet, william, cons, Canada, and Mexico's governments.

When you are going to make such a startling thread titled "Attack America Now" we here at ATS would like to think you have the proof to substantiate your assertions that such an attack is necessary and why.

You have not done that and albeit true you talk like you have all this information regarding raping and pillaging by the "Jack Boot Americans" as you have called them on another thread, you have failed to prove anything other than you have a few groupies who have sided with you but none of them have shown anything substantial either.

There comes a time in a thread when you have exhausted all your credibility and / or have not been successful in proving your case.

That time is long past, you have proven you are not willing to accept losing just as much as you are not willing to admit being wrong, about ANYTHING! You came up with this quote about the borders and totally ignored another posters video about that.

You complain about our country but you don't live here, you complain about the way our Government has been lax in its fiduciary responsibility but you don't live here and you are not a voter so whether you agree with it or not, it is none of your freakin business.

If you want to back peddal and say after all this time that you don't advocate attacking America, than why did you say that in the title?

Was that for ratings? Bait? Attention?

I realize also that you think you are intelligent but if asked, I would disagree, I think you are conniving and delusional, bi-polar or both. Common sense would tell you, this won't make you many freinds and will get you very disliked. I know it isn't a popularity contest but some things are so obviously detrimental to civility they can not be overlooked as anything less then instigating trouble.

I think you have succeeded in at least looking like a trouble thread maker
This would be no different if you were to make a thread saying kill all blacks now or kill all jews now but threatening america like you have and expecting to be treated NICE while lying and making things up people you are arguing with never said? You should be ashamed of yourself.

I know one thing for sure, you are a liar and as of today if you look at todays threads you'll notice we are winning the iraq war and in the end, histrory and the ME will benefit from our having a presence there.

I think you owe everyone here an apology for your lies your bait and alert tactics and your mis representation of those you have put words in the mouth of including the Governments you have besmirched as co conspiratores of your alleged NAU drama. If you respond to me I will be looking out for your mis-representation tactics as I too have seen you do that to just about everyone you have spoken to and I don't blame them for getting upset that kind of thing infuriates people. So please, if you respond, by all means, use direct quotes. That is what the button is for that says "quotes" and don't assume what a person "really means" or do the "so you're saying such and such" when what a person says is what they mean, dont add your spin to it as you have been dreadfully wrong.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't understand why such a thread is even allowed when it is so likely it will only create hard feelings.
I think you need psychological evaluation or something. I just met you, and already, I don't like you, in fact you scare me


[edit on 27-7-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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XID, Below is just one quote from conspiracy, so dont call me a liar and say these people are not war mongers and did not say what they would and would not do when its quite clear what they posted.

"Yeah that's just what I'm talking about. Unless they have ever seen the
awesome power this country has they have NO idea and it is respected and feared elsewhere believe me. I am not saying this to flaunt the Red White and Blue, I am just telling you the truth here.

Messing with us like that, would not only get yourself killed, you would have a an American solidarity behind it and THAT would GUARANTEE your worst nightmares become reality"

So Con's views where made quite clear on page one of this thread, dont mess with us otherwise we will come and destroy you which proves the point of this thread to a tee.

And as for calling me names your just another ignorant mind controlled American who is filled with hate for everything and everyone that is not American. I bet you have not even read all of this thread have you, too lazy are we. And what is your answer to the Americans who think as I do and agree with my points. I suppose you would have them all shot would you.

And if you dont think the NAU will come about that just shows how out of touch you are. Rome was not built in a day and for a little history lesson The EU which is still not complete has taken the last 40 years to get to where it is now. It does not matter when it happens the fact is the NAU will happen irrespective of what you think. You would do better to do some proper research in World affairs it may enlighten you rather than reading the usual crap from Fox News and such like.

And far from being a baby I can take on the likes of any of you because you and your ilk are nothing but load mouthed bullies just like your Goverment. But its all going to end very soon and then we will see who is crying like a baby.



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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advocating an illegal war and the killing of innocent children


Originally posted by magicmushroom

XID, Below is just one quote from conspiracy, so dont call me a liar and say these people are not war mongers and did not say what they would and would not do when its quite clear what they posted.


I hope you are sitting down, mushroom, because I have some very serious issues with your last post that concern me a great deal. I had been as specific as possible in my request for the quote of con saying he "advocates illegal wars and the killing of innocent children"

Your first reply reveals deception on a sub-concious level your inadvertent admission you are not only misrepresenting others but reading into their statements the hatred you are projecting on them as if it was what they WOULD have said if?? The "if" is where I have a serious concern for the way you are processing information.

You and I are going to take things very slowly here step by step and If I have to we will post one statement at a time.

Now, I asked you to show me the quote of Con saying VERBATIM, the following quote you have alleged he made. That he.,

"advocates illegal wars and the killing of innocent children"

Now, again I will ask you to please cite the quote and not what you think he "Would" have said as you admitted to in your below response paragraph 1


dont call me a liar and say these people are not war mongers and did not say what they would and would not do when its quite clear what they posted


I, nor anyone else is interested in what you think Con "would" have said, I am only interested in what he DID say and until you can show me that quote that he did in fact say that, I have no other choice but to accuse you of that which you are guilty of bearing false witness and assuming he "would" say that doesn't mean he DID say that, but you and I both know he never said that, don't we mushroom?

The two quotes you gave are answers to questions I never asked. Going back to the original post, it is obvious the are answers regarding what Cons believes would happen if anyone attacked his Country.

I never asked where is the quote regarding what he would say if anyone attacked America. I asked specifically for the quote you said he advocated illegal wars and the killing of innocent children.

Ill Ask cons

Cons, do you advocate illegal wars and the killing of innocent children?

Ill bet you he says no but you won't take no for an answer will you? No I don't think you will, I think you are superimposing your own answer on him because it is what YOU would say if YOU were Cons?



So Con's views where made quite clear on page one of this thread, dont mess with us otherwise we will come and destroy you which proves the point of this thread to a tee.


Sadly my misguided and, I'm afraid, mentally disturbed soul, it does not prove Cons said what you accused and that was the whole point.

Attempting to shift the original intent behind my request to one which proves the point of this thread is more deception taking the focus back to my original request, Ill ask once again.

Can you or can you not show us all and this is critical to our dialogue ever continuing at all after this,, but can you or can you not show me what post in this thread or anywhere on this entire forum where either Cons or Poet said Quote" "advocates illegal wars and the killing of innocent children"

This is your last chance to redeem yourself and I am offering a very generous benefit of the doubt so I expect nothing less than the truth, the whole truth, and nothing BUT the truth. I don't want to know what he said about being attacked but simply for you to take full responsibility for your allegation saying you had reported him to the FBI because he advocates illegal wars and the killing of innocent children.


your just another ignorant mind controlled American who is filled with hate for everything and everyone that is not American.


Oh I see,, now it is time to misrepresent me because you know for a fact I am American and that I hate anyone who is not? Is that correct? does that sum up what I am ? Am I understanding you correctly?

Ill wait for your answer just to be sure




I bet you have not even read all of this thread have you, too lazy are we.


Am I? you seem to know me better than I do. So tell me mushroom because it doesn't seem to matter what we say, you will only read it how you want to believe it regardless of the truth.



And what is your answer to the Americans who think as I do and agree with my points. I suppose you would have them all shot would you.


Is that a question? It seems to have a tag with a bit of a holds harmless clause ending in "would you" . So in the interest of giving you an accurate opinion I require a complete understanding of the context the statement is being made.

Anticipating your next deception, I will answer with my own question.

Would I?

It will be a delight convicting you in response to your next post and I suggest you think carefully what you say and to whom you are saying it. Libel can be an expensive bitch and my legal fees don't cost me a dime, here or in the UK



[edit on 27-7-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by XIDIXIDIX
 


XI

I have stared both of your posts. Would it be that I was as eloquent as you.

Will



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by William Marshal
reply to post by XIDIXIDIX
 


XI

I have stared both of your posts. Would it be that I was as eloquent as you.

Will


Well Thank you Will Marshall, very kind of you to say coming from such an evil American person from such an evil American Country. Just so mushroom won't in some desperate act of futile vindication try to accuse me of anything he has done so often ,, know that my comments are facetious and meant in good humor albeit not the blunt force trauma of truth Con's posts have


I have enjoyed your posts as well but I am disappointed in Mushroom not following instructions when I had given them so he would NOT play the same dirty strawman tactics you have all been complaining about.

I thought I was quite clear too, see below:


So please, if you respond, by all means, use direct quotes. That is what the button is for that says "quotes" and don't assume what a person "really means" or do the "so you're saying such and such" when what a person says is what they mean, don't add your spin to it as you have been dreadfully wrong.


I ask you Will? is this not what he went right ahead and did anyway after I had just got through asking him to find ONE simple quote a specific quote and did he not assume something was meant where for the life of me, , I failed to see anything even remotely suggesting any illegal war advocacy or infanticide?

I didn't even bother about the NAU subject as it is clear even when proven it is complete and utter nonsense he went right on telling everyone HE knows better. This person has many of us thinking this may require a personal visit from the authorities.

Not to teach him a lesson, it is obvious he is unteachable but just to let him know just what kind of extra hassle it is going to be for him to get on an Air Plane or to rent a car or the extra steps in security protocols he will be forced to go through, the lack of patience security will have with HIM over any other traveler where they will not hesitate to taser him with 50,000 volts coursing through his body just for using one and I mean just one of those smart aleck comments he makes.

He really has No IDEA how serious threads like this are picked up and given to those that can make his life a hell and I am talking about the UK not here but they would here too.

He said I hate him and that just isn't true at all but I do feel very sorry for him who ever he is, the attention he is trying to get,, he is GOING to get.

That isn't a threat by the way,, no, HE is the threat and he will be treated accordingly. The best thing for all of you is to ignore him and let this silly thread die. He is not living in reality and I meant what I said, I think this person needs some help and we shouldn't encourage him.




,



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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XID, some truths for you, Bush said that any country that attacks the US we will attack, Iraq did not attack the US FACT. CON said that America is feared and respected by countries of the World, he said that so his position is a belligerent one meaning he supports the current US Foreign Policy and so do those who think like him.

And in regard to your comments about the NAU, just because you say it wont happen does not mean squat and as such you opinion is worth no more or less than mine or anyone elses.

And as for killing this thread despite the best efforts of the spoilers and the brain dead patriots its still alive. You people make me laugh, oh we believe in free speech and liberty but only when people play by our rules in others words if I was an American ass kisser you would love me. But becuase I can see that your nation is turning into a Fascist State and one that wages wars on 3rd World countries then yes the US is a threat to World peace. If you can be bothered read your own PNAC document it clearly sets out America's Imperial ambitions. But as we all know every rougue nation has its supporters and there are certainly plenty on this thread.

The Iraq war is bleeding your country dry and people like you think its great that America has the military might to do what it likes. Well when your country is flat broke I dont think you will be cheering then will you.
All logical and sane people know war is wrong yet there are always an endless supply of those who think its great. Usually the ones that are far away from the death and distruction leading their complacent lives.

This thread will die eventually but for the thousands that have read it they will be aware of what is going on, knowledge is power and I have achieved my objective in drawing the attention of a large number of people as to America's attitude to others on this Planet. What you and the others have posted is of no consequence and will have no effect on the changes to come. All the name calling and insults to me and others on this thread are meaningless and are nothing but the desperate hate of those who cannot face the truth or reality.

So you just head off and stick you head in that bubble you all say you live in, but bubbles have a habit of bursting dont they.



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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I think you've been whooped MM, his intellect is obviously superior to yours and mine. I think you should gracefully back away and let it die now. All you have to offer is more of the same. I think your correct, the thousands who read this thread will be brought the truth. You have been bested my friend.

for your entertainment pleasure:


www.disclose.tv...

America is the world! If we fail so do you.

will



posted on Jul, 27 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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Sorry Double post,

Please remove if possible.

Will

[edit on 27-7-2008 by William Marshal]



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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Will, I have not been bested as you put it here by anyone, what has happened is that the brain dead patriots have tried and failed to derail this thread and use the same tactics your Goverment and media does when its pushing its agenda.

And it does not matter how many people here state that the NAU wont happen it will and you know why because that will be the rescue plan to pull the US out of the financial mess its got itself into. It may take a number of years but it will happen and just because some one posts a report stating the opposite means absolutely nothing. You and I know that we are lied too and decieved on a daily basis by our respective Goverments.

More and more people are becoming aware that they are being shafted by their Goverments and the Corporate greed machine and they the parasites have a plan and they are working to it. Its the old stepping stones approach it takes time but the objective is achieved in the end.

All the pointers are there you just have to join up aall the dots to see the picture. And remeber this all through Human existence we have had so called enlightened people tell we cannot do this or that but all has happened has it not and it will continue to do so. Just like we had so called experts telling us about Iraq' WMD's when all along they knew they did not exist. So no I would not trust any of them and especially those who believe all the lies and deceit, they are nothing but mind controlled slaves.

If in 1945 the people of the Uk were told that in 25 years we would join what was to become the United States of Europe people would have said you were mad or worse and especially after fighting 2 world wars with Germany, yet it is happening so the same applies with the NAU and all the other plans they have up their sleve.

But time will tell and when I am proved right what will all these doubting Joe's say then.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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Will, thanks for the political pawn show, I know there are many great things about the US, I have never said there is not. I have a good pen pal in the US and we have family there. What I dont agree with is America's Foriegn Policy against others and those Americans who think its great to kill millions because you have the means to do so.

The problem for Americans is that what the World sees is the negative side no one hears about the good unless you make the effort yourself. The problem is that those in charge and their willing supporters aren't just a threat to others they are a threat to their fellow Americans. And although many say nothings happened to them or they have not seen any problems there is a definite ratching up of the program and its going to get alot worse.

Whatever happens will effect all the World but if the US is the centre of the earthquake yes there will be damage else where but in the US it will be total. And out of the ashes will rise the NAU so no it wont be the end of America in the true sense it will be just and end to the old ways and the gun totin days may soon be over.

Irrspective of what I have said here on this thread ATS is full of threads about the US and what is going on and most of the posters are American so we cannot all be wrong. In all the words that are written there are elements of truths and no one can deny that.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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I see all this whining on this forum about how bad America is. I am an American and I love this country.

I own 2 Retail store in telecommunications and I have hardly seen any decline of business. I say hardly because montly sales seem to fluctuate more now then before, but overall sales are the same. This is all while living in Dayton, Ohio. Dayton is an old river town that has loss almost all of its industry and manufacturing jobs.

I just did a monster search of available jobs and over 900 posted jobs came back for Dayton with a radius of 20 miles.

Dont expect me to feel sorry for the uneducated, we have so many oppurtunities in this nation for financial loans and grants to become educated.

The whiners are the ones making 20+ dollars an hour on an assembly line doing mindless work losing there jobs. If you are educated, you will find a nice paying job.

Even the Mexicans are risking everything to get here for work. There are so many jobs available that illegal immigration is a an all time high.

People seem to think that being American automatically means that they should live the good life. That is not the case and im tired of hearing all the whining.

Another issue is "America thinks it can police the world". All I have to say is Great! We stand for Human Rights, democracy, religious freedoms, and a bunch of other great issues! We police the world because so many other governments take a passive stance and allow fantatics to corrupt nations and geographical areas. So we meddle, thats better than a war on our soil. Its called being proactive.

We have tons of jobs available, but nobody wants to work them because everyone feels they should me millionairs. Get a grip and quit whining! Are country is great, just some of the people are fat and lazy.

Proud American



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


I started to read the first post and realized, Yep just more of the same. I didnt finish and I wont.

Will



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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XID, some truths for you,


If they are anything like the so called truth's you have given through this entire thread than why would anyone care? You have been nothing less than dishonest mushroom and that HAS been proven, first by Cons who had exploited your continual slanderous tactic of misrepresentation than poet, Mr. Marshall and myself.

I see nothing has changed and in this thread you continue to do it again. You say the general public will read this thread and agree with you but I will say that the general public will side with what the evidence shows and what the evidence clearly establishes is that you are a liar and by the way I STILL haven't seen that quote by Cons I have asked for and I am forced to conclude that the absolutely outrageous statements made here regarding Con and poets Character and integrity were maliciously assaulted by your vicious lies and false quotes.

You are aware that the owners of ATS were within smelling distance of the ink on the paper of a law suit against people just like you. Another words to suggest that someone is an advocate of killing innocent children is one thing (hearsay) but to say the person you attaché such an evil and ugly personality to, ACTUALLY SAID IT HIMSELF and quote them as if that proves it?

Then even AFTER you get busted for it, you don't even show the common decency to make apologies much less admit you lied and that too has been proven and is undeniable as I have given you more than enough opportunity to present your evidence and you have failed to do that without an iota of remorse.

It doesn't even OCCUR to you, does it? It doesn't even OCCUR to you that the general public knows what manufacturing evidence is when you make up lies using them as quotes, QUOTES! NOT words to the effect or what YOU THINK it really means and then re-worded to that effect, but quotes! That means verbatim but when we see what was REALLY said, we find you have not an honest bone in your body mushroom and if you want to continue complaining to the mods about people calling you names? I think Cons would trade his feelings for yours any day.

After what you have said about him and poet, if people were to believe you and you for some reason think they will, YOU better hope they don't because if they do they will believe Cons has the mind of a baby killer and might even have people here treat him according to the false reputation you have so slanderously created just because you can't win a debate with him or anyone else here.

It isn't a matter of intelligence mushroom, it is a matter of evidence and YOU have shown neither one, NONE. If that were ME you said all that baby killer baloney about, I guarantee you, ATS would be getting a deuces tecum and subpoena for your information and you and I would be seeing each other in court. Luckily my life and my income doesn't revolve around my internet persona. Even if that were to happen, I can see you telling a Judge you are still NOT WRONG.

He won't care, he will only see a comment like that as contemptuous and most likely grant an aggravation hearing if one were requested to get the maximum compensatory damages out of your wallet .

So unless you are going to either present the exact quote from people, I no longer have a REASON to believe a single word you have to say mushroom for I have proven you an intentional liar convicted you and you are without remorse

Your testimony and your credibility have been IMPEACHED. Can you not understand that?

Do you not get it yet? Must I explain to you what I have done to destroy your thread and its author by having to get that academic with why that one lie represents the cornerstone of your thread and why you aren't just mistaken but you are malicious.

You are an agent provocateur who will not admit the truth, doesn't know the difference between fact and fiction and when he is shown that difference , willfully chooses fiction regardless.


It isn't so much that you have lied, but you have lied a LOT and you keep making the same mistakes even after everyone is on to you.

That suggests the kind of narcissistic arrogance that one typically experiences when dealing with a pathological liar. That isn't calling you names mush, it is calling it like it is. If you don't think I would rather be saying some positive affirmations about you, then you are wrong.

I think it is disappointing and terribly unfortunate that the best thing I can say of someone named magic mushroom at ATS is all the bad things I can prove you are and have been to those you have besmirched with your deceitful manipulative ploys, lies discontextualized quote mining and misrepresentation and by your own words and deeds.


Where what you have said about many here, has about as much credibility and evidence as that quote of cons you never produced. You are all talk and the talk is all lies. You don't impress anyone here mushroom and if you think you do you are delusional.

People who make as wild an accusation as you have that manufacture their own evidence in the form of quotes people never actually said, disgusts me and then you wonder why they call you names?

I have said it before, that kind of thing infuriates people on boards like this. In fact in places where they take debate more serious such as a courtroom, it is a jailable offense. It only takes ONE lie to have an entire days testimony get completely thrown out.

What you are doing would get you numerous counts for perjury, fraud, intent to commit a fraud, AND aggravation where punitive damages are added to restitution in some cases. Someone like Skeptic overlord and the owners of ATS who rely on their internets good name, would understand exactly what I am talking about.

Yeah mushroom, I guess you could say you make me sick but I think I know why you do it and if you have read anything seriously given as being in your best interest then you should listen to me this time.


I know I can say with 99.999999x^10 that I know more about this than you do. Not about the NAU or whether America should be attacked but about how to paint a liar in a corner using evidence while discrediting my opponents and in this case you haven't even bothered to reference quotes or links to other resources that could otherwise corroborate your allegations and / or substantiate your assertions.

Their comes a time when you should LISTEN and not assume you know more and this would be that time for you to listen because what I am going to tell you has value enough people have paid lots of money for what I am going to teach you free so I hope you take heed and appreciate what I am going to show you. It will help you in any future debates if you ever want to avoid looking as pathetic as you have in this one.

I think I have got you so figured out that you are already hitting the alert button thinking I just called you names. The word "pathetic" in this use is related to empathy (capability of feeling), and is not pejorative.

Yes you're so sensitive to attacks that you have attached toxic shame to any words or phrase that imply you are wrong and is why you can't admit when you are.

So obvious is this and so unaware are you of it, that Ill bet just saying you are wrong is like calling you some vulgar expletive, it is that offensive to you.

This is how you process information and it is also how you see the world through your own dysfunctional observation facility. You are NOT interpreting quotes correctly, it is sort of like cognitive dyslexia and you have displayed every sign of it. When you read post by Con or many others here, you quote it the same way YOU think they "really meant it" rather than what it really means.

You think I am kidding?

It isn't a coincidence you couldn't show us that quote you could have swore Con made, this was why I asked you to use the quote button in the edit controls display. You ever think about why you didn't? Because you are too busy re-typing what YOU think they really meant BUT not what they said.


Exhibit A:

"CON said that America is feared and respected by countries of the World, he said that so his position is a belligerent one meaning he supports the current US Foreign Policy and so do those who think like him.


Now, he said that so his position is a belligerent one?

You say this means he supports the current US Foreign Policy and so do those who think like him?

Well that includes you too then and Ill prove it.

I will show you are not seeing what things really mean until you see them applied to you. All I have to do is frame your opinion concluding what you think cons statement really means, in the form of a couple questions Ill ask you.

1) do you not think America is feared in some places of the world? Ill assume you would concur and Ill also say Of course it is.

2) Do you think their is no place in the entire world that respects America? Of course you don't and even if their were only ONE place in the world that respected America, the fact is, such places DO exist. do you not agree?

Of course you do and by doing so using your own twisted logic, you have just painted yourself in a corner that anyone that thinks like that is belligerent, someone who supports the current US foreign policy.

So if those beliefs con has can be posed to you as a question, then you are just like he is according to your logic.

Oh yeah,, gotcha.


All I am doing is applying your own tactic of doing that to someone named Mushroom so hopefully he will see that he may have a serious disorder that can be treated, it is called "Presumptuous knowitallism"

You must know that the way you see the world, is not close to being accurate if you ever want to get yourself back to seeing the world objectively and honestly, especially on emotionally charged issues.

When you tried to be clever with me talking about the NAU, Logic is important isn't it? You DO like to be logical do you not? I am going to assume the affirmative and show you why your logic is flawed so much that it is beyond your own reasonable cognitive ability to recognize that you even have a problem with this. So just indulge me here if you will and Ill sort this out for you.

You said,

And in regard to your comments about the NAU, just because you say it wont happen does not mean squat and as such you opinion is worth no more or less than mine or anyone else's.


You are correct my opinion doesn't mean more than anyone else's but my assertion wasn't predicated on my opinion, it was based solely on the tangible, physical evidence Con appropriately furnished to substantiate what the NAU is NOT and what is NOT going to happen. You see?

All you have to show it IS going to happen is YOUR OPINION. Unless you can produce evidence, the fact is, YOU are the one left with Squat. Now what is more logical? Going with the evidence or Magic Mushroom the fortune teller? Do you know what the burden of proof is? You are the one making the claim about some so called militarized north American union that is coming to our town and going to take our guns and put many of us in concentration camps or gulags, internment camps whatever and I think you really DO believe that too.

So I understand your passion for alarmist behavior but the facts are the facts and nothing could be further from the truth. As far as what you can prove factually, there IS no treaty period and no one is going to make one like that. Their is no plans to consolidate our country with Canada and Mexico NONE PERIOD.

Frankly, the whole idea is absurd and it is absurd NOT because it is impossible such a thing could happen, but for me to believe it when their is no evidence to show, I may as well be running around like chicken little saying the sky is falling. Your posts read like the National Enquirer when you say things like that. Its as if you were saying the sun won't come up tomorrow but the evidence using past history suggests it will.

That doesn't mean it will 100% fact but the odds are I would be right to say it will and you would wrong to say it won't. If you were to tell me "just because I believe it will come up tomorrow doesn't mean it will" is true but Their are something's we can not observe until they actually happen but we know they are going to happen with enough confidence we can have faith in it taking the risk without knowing it 100%.


It is just as illogical as your claim about my saying the NAU won't happen the way you believe. Technically we are both right but the odds my version of the NAU's actual agenda being the one that will come to fruition, is overwhelmingly in my favor as sure as the sun is coming up tomorrow.

You were shown the actual Government report on the NAU not JUST "some" report but the one by the horses mouth in Washington and you have failed to refute it.

I don't see how you can without an actual treaty taking place. That is the cornerstone of the entire weight of your argument and Mush, their is no treaty so, you are the one with squat. Ill take the evidence over your crystal ball any day.



If you can be bothered read your own PNAC document it clearly sets out America's Imperial ambitions.


Oh I have read it many times and have seen it in all its many re-vised versions. I have a very close friend and colleague that is part of the think tank that originally co-authored it. Just what paragraph in that document does it say anything about Americas expansionist agenda for a fascist State.

I don't know why I am even asking, I already know the document does not say anything like that unless you apply meanings to things that aren't really there like you tend to do. Such a document would have to be written by someone with a minimum knowledge of contract law and every word is chosen carefully so that people like you can get trumped arguing it means something more or something it doesn't

Either prove it or keep spinning yarns.


"So you just head off and stick you head in that bubble you all say you live in, but bubbles have a habit of bursting don't they"


Please show proof of me saying I live in a bubble?

No,, never mind, I think everyone would agree, I win that one just by considering the source.

You're welcome Mushroom.

Listen, learn and pick your battles carefully choosing only those you think you can win. If you do that, you will understand why the title of this thread told me who ever created it, has no Idea who Americans are or what America is truly about.

I don't say that to jump on the bandwagon of your American detractors, but lets face it, America IS The Band Wagon. So, Either get on it, stop it, or get the hell out of the way and stop making a fool of yourself.






[edit on 29-7-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 07:25 AM
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MM

Sorry I took so long to reply. If you are not a Muslim, then my guess is that you are one of many liberals in the west, who see white people as evil, even if you are white, and all non-whites as victims of whites.

You seem not to recognize that what makes Europe so successful is that the nations of Europe succeeded in creating a culture that could develop democratic style representative governments, with market economies that enable all people in those countries to participate in the growth of the nation, and be rewarded for their efforts. These advanced cultural developments created an explosion of technology, as people who are working for their own benefits, are much more willing to put out far greater effort. In other words, Europeans learned to work together and co-operate, and treat each other fairly, and that is why they succeeded.

At the same time you seem to fail to recognize that the reason other cultures around the world failed to evolve is because they remained hopelessly hiearchial in stucture, where only those at the top benefited from the work of all others. Under such conditions people refuse to put forth any more effort than they absolutely must put forth in order to survive, because anything more is futile. These cultures inevitably created governments that were extremely oppressive, dealing out extremely harsh penalties for the most minor of offenses, creating an environment of fear. These cultures failed to create an atmosphere of cooperation, and they failed to advance beyond medieval states.

The primary method by which the people of the failed cultures of this world were punished is through religious doctrine, in which those who claimed to be prophets or other forms of representatives of God, or actual gods themselves, such as the Japanese Emporer up until the end of WW II, claimed devine knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, or essentially that their word was the word of God, giving them absolute authority over all others. This position that these people claimed gave them the power to do whatever they wanted to whomever, under the excuse that it was best for their eternal souls, and all of humanity as well. Do you recognize how much abuse these concepts allow to be committed? To this very day, Muslims are raised from childhood, with the very strict belief that they must give their daily prayers, which begin with their swearing loyalty to Muhammad as having been the voice of God.

I don't think you recognize how much evil these concepts, this belief that they are being directed by God, enables people to commit.

You probably also believe in the noble savage. The the people of the America's were innocent until White Man showed up. The reality is that they fought every bit as fierce of wars amongst each other as were fought in Europe. That as soons as the Eastern tribes got ahold of guns and iron, they used their new weapons to conquer their ancient enemies, and take their land. No tribe, nation, or culture has a rightful claim to innocence. White people have every bit as much of a right to migrate the the new world, as the people who came before them. The Earth is be shared by all of us. No people have a devine claim to the lands of the Earth.

As we have advanced as intelligent beings since the European Renaissance, we have became better people, far less violent, and far more respectful of the rights of others. This is a good thing that you should recognize. While we still have a great many problems, and have become far more capable of destruction, we have also curbed those tendencies, and live more peaceful secure lives than our ancestos did but a hundred years ago. It is extremely important that we do not allow ourselves to be taken over by religious fanatics who think that they are representing the word of God.

The tecnology that we have created will not go away, and if given over to those who think they represent the will of God, you can bet your life that they will unleashed the techologies that we have developed in the most destructive ways possible to justify their superiority.

There are very good reasons why the people of he advanced nations must continue to fight to maintain their freedoms, and to spread liberty around the globe.



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by William Marshal

America is the world! If we fail so do you.



That is just about the most arrogant and ignorant thing I've read in my whole time here on ATS!

How can you possibly say this? WE are not responsible for your leaders disregard for it's people or the people of this world.

Your "wishful thinking" along these lines will be your downfall. Is this how the american mentality truly works? If you think something it makes it true?

All those years of conditioning are finally paying dividends for the manipulators it seems in the fight to expand the USA beyond it's own borders.

In response to your above statement:

America is just one country and you are failing. Don't blame anyone else for the mistakes you allow your "tellers" to perform in your name!".

Go into the world you are tring to "shape" for your own purposes. And not just the military bases or holiday resorts but ALL of it.

I think you'll find a different story in the REAL WORLD of faces and feelings.

The "america" out here in the real world is TV & movies, fast food, gas-guzzling S.U.Vs, BAD NEWS, WAR and insecurity!

When your main export becomes something a little more productive and contributory, then you will be considered a good "PART" of the world.....

but you will NEVER be THE world. It just ain't big enough for all those Egos!

What a rediculous thing to say (but thankyou for revealling that personal gem").

Presumtion leads to ignorance, ignorance leads to dellusion, dellusion leads to .... dumb! Sorry, would you care to re-phrase your above comment to a more accurate claim or shall we trust what you say as THE TRUTH and bow down to your "tellers"?



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
There are very good reasons why the people of he advanced nations must continue to fight to maintain their freedoms, and to spread liberty around the globe.


Whos liberty, yours or theirs?




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