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Attack America Now

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posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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WESTCOAST, I think you need to see a doctor. I dont post facts, oh so you did not lose the Vietnam War, your bogged down in Iraq, you dont invade innocent countries, you dont support terrorists or form terrorist groups, you dont overthrow elected Goverments. So your Presidents wern't asssinated, 9/11 was an illusion, your country is not in $trillions of debt, PNAC, Patriot 1/2 are just comics. There is tons of info on the above and you say I dont post facts I dont think you would know what a fact is if it hit you on the head.

Even when you are given "facts" you just ignore them or say its not true, call the poster names etc. Which is what you always do with members when you read something you dont like. It would appear that you have a problem with reality. Best pop down to the Chemist to get some reality pills, and some extra strength glasses so you can see whats going on around you.




posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


Um, because the world economy depends on the U.S. economy. China would die economically if the U.S. stopped buying their cheap chit. Or Otherwise, China might have to start paying their own people enough money to buy the products that they produce, which would eventually lead to the people developing a level of power, and possibly liberty, which the Chinese government does not want to see happening.

Here is the bigger reality, we are entering a new era beyond big oil, and this means great opportunities and economic independence for the world where people are willing to to make the effort to make this happen. Bio-diesel, sugarahol, and hydrogen generation are the way of the future, and big oil can't control this, which means economic freedom has a chance once again.

The Middle East has blown it's wad trying to spread Islam around the globe. They have failed to develop any kind of industry that will carry them into the future, and technology will never flourish in any religious oppressive state, so things look very bleak in the Middle East as far as the future is concerned.

Honestly, I feel for the people of the Middle East, and I hope they learn to escape Islamic extremism and join the modern world.


Did you know the US is borrowing money from China to pay for the war and to fix it's messed up economy lol

Anyways the Middle East is not in a messed up situation because of Islam but because of America, I have argued this with many people and I would be happy to do the same ol same ol with you. The dictators in the Middle East are the problem not Islam, the dictators who are backed by America and who wouldn't survive one day without the American support. Muslims would be happy if America pushes Democracy in to the Middle East because guess whose going to win in the run off?? Muslims, not the dictators like Mubarak.

The Middle East needs a revolution like South America, they need to get rid of the American backed dictators then their will be prosperity. Look at South America now, most of them hate the US and don't want any type of influence comming from that corner.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 05:50 PM
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I have a question or scenario for Magicmushroom, Manson_322 and the rest of the America haters.

Suppose what you want happens. Big conference in the UN and they decide to impose sanctions on the US. (side note: That would be funny in a way. The world ambassadors deciding sanctions at the UN, afterwhich they jump into their limos and speed away to their plush midtown condos and apartments. You know, paid for in part with US dollars and funding.)

The US is destroyed economically. Our dollar isn't worth squat. Our military is reduced to a rowboat, a Cessna 152, a VW microbus with some armor welded on, and about a dozen guys with shotguns.

What then?

What if some sort of disaster strikes, like the Dust Bowl Days of the 1930s? Who will supply us aid?

What about a disaster in another country? Something huge, like a massive earthquake in China. Kills millions of people. How will aid be delivered? Remember, we have no fleet of ships or aircraft anymore.

And what if someone, like China, decides, "Hey, we're gonna invade," and they come at us full bore. Who will defend us???

Just a few thoughts on how you'd be handling little problems like that.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom


West and William, it does not matter how many names you call me the simple facts are I know a dam sight more than you 2 put together. The best you can come up with is name calling, that shows you are both weak.




America is no different than any other nation that has waged war for its own personal greed and advancement. It is responsible for the deaths of millions in wars it did and does not need to wage and you think thats great and it makes you superior. Well no what it makes you is criminals and you should be treated as such.


You are being dishonest again MM !! Can you not make a post without lying! Why must you INSIST on putting words in peoples mouths mis-representing them so you and your ignorant thread can save face in the midst of the obvious lack of support paid to it.

Show me one post where anyone here said we killed a million muslims in iraq and that makes us cool that makes us BETTER than you!
Show me ONE!



For all the decent Americans there are its people like you two who are traitors to the constitution and to the American people.


WTF are you talking about! You know what would be a traitor is if they joined you in attacking their own country.



You would intern and murder your own citizens if they did not follow your ignorant and arrogant views.


Is that a fact! or is this what YOU think they would do? You're being dishonest again MM and adding conjecture so outrageuously imagined that you are just making things up as you go now or what?



And actually you both contradict yourselves, you call me a liberal pansy yet what is the title of this thread, its ATTACK AMERICA NOW.


yeah,, and???


Thats what should be done when any nation decides it better than all others and seeks to invade, pillage and murder innocent people. So you two cannot even read properly or understand the purpose of the thread.


Well if that is true than I guess we should stop the UK too huh? They are the ones who setup the middle east and israel, they went to iraq just like we did and YOUR Government furnished some intell on wmd's also.



If you want to have unity in the World you dont do it by carrying out illegal invasions, kill the populace and pillage the country. Thats exactly what us Brits did, I was brought up to believe that we the British were superior to all others, the rest were just peasants, and we could attack anyone we liked because we had the means to do so.


Yeah and ya know what,, THAT IS what made England Great.
I didn't say Good, I said Great.


Dose any of that sound familiar to you both. But we were not superior to others it was our military might that was superior which is quite a different thing.


That all depends on what you are talking about. The idea that we are all created equal is a SLOGAN! You in the UK DO happen to be superior in many areas of human existence. Does that give you a rigth to invade anyone? No Does it give you bragging rights?

On those areas your country excels in yeah.



The problem is it that the American people are being conned to fight wars that they dont need to do and whilst the people suffer the parasites who send you off to war get rich.


You think we don't know this?



Remember the reds under the beds in the 60's and 70's in the US, the big commie bogey man. And what happened, you go into Vietnam to try and stop the spread of communism and the end result is millions dead that did not need to die and it did not change anything, same with Korea.


No true, South Korea is a strong economy and Vietnam does much with our Country now.


Now you being told that Muslims are the big bogey men out to get you, you would think that the people would learn from their history but they dont


Nor does it mean we should ignore Iran because it might be another bogeyman. In Fact Iran IS a threat and if they don't fall in line with the international Community on their enrichment of urnaium then we need to handle that.


But its not their fault as you have a corrupt and controlled media that does not report the truth.


You think we don't know this? Most Americans know how to get the news MM.


The we dont count civillian deaths in Iraq and Afganistan so the true picture of what is really happening is not shown. What we all see is the lies and propaganda, that you are fighting a just cause when the truth is that the war is illegal and did not need to happen.


But it DID happen and we just can't abandon them now. America is suffering for not doing what it was supposed to do and the Blessing this Country has always enjoyed were stripped from us and we are suffering for it. The Bush Admin have done some pretty spurious things but YOUR solution is not going to make one Iraqi come back to life nor will it make us any more receptive to people screaming Attack America Now!



The WMD's lie to wage war and Saddam was behind 9/11 was all lies yet you say your intelligent yet you swallow these lies all the time. Bush said many times we will attack any country that attacks us. Well since most of the alleged highjackers were Saudis how come you attacked Iraq and Afganistan. I'll tell you why, because its about oil, security for Israel and forward bases for the future Chinese threat. And now the same old lies are being spread about Iran. If you are as smart as you say you are you will know that Iran does not have the means to attack America or could win a war against it so why do you believe all the crap.


MM we KNOW all this it's OLD NEWS My God get over yourself and this idea we are all sitting here with our thumbs up our asses saying Dum dee dum dum.. and drive around like the Dukes of Hazzard yelling YeeeHaa!



But the question is why should the rest of the World allow the US and its master Israel start ww3.


That's what YOU would be starting attacking the U.S. Pal and that isn't us THINKING we are better than they are, that would be us PROVING IT.

Just because you tend to stretch that into an another lie, I am saying we think we are better because we fight to win and not worry about who might think we are stuck up about it,, jeeez

That is us saying BACK THE TRUCK UP! You wanna talk about that,, like I said either DO IT OR SIT THE HELL DOWN



What gives you the right to think you can do that, you have no right and if you say you do then your nothing better than all the despots and murderes that have gone before. To state you are all powerful and can do what you like makes you Fascists and I'm sure you both understand the meaning of that word

.
We Haven'T DONE IT MM!! We aren't starting WW3 inspite of your insisting it is on,, IT ISN'T!



You see yourselves as the good guys


No we don't,, YOU say we do.


If a burglar broke into your house would you invite them in to rob you and kill you, no I dont think so, so why do you think you can do it to others.


Because we can that's why. That doesn't mean we thihnk we SHOULD. that is just telling you what we think we're capable of. As for your quote though,, yeah we welcome you to try and break us MM



Its a pity that two alegedly smart people cannot divert their energies to the betterment of mankind rather than hollering we can kill who we like and take what we want.




Show me MM SHOW ME WHERE EITHER ONE OF THEM SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT! QUIT LYING !!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE A DISHONEST LIAR AND YOU CONTINUE TO MIS REPRESENT THEM SAYING THINGS THEY HAVE NOT SAID ! Neither of them has said "WE can kill anyone we feel like it and take what ever we want!" like some damn Pirates or whatever you are hallucinating in that head of yours.

They have spoken their mind regarding the very substantial consequences their would be for attacking us and that is a hell of a lot differen't than you portraying them as the guy who stole your damn bike as a kid or the bully who extorted your milk money each day at School so KNOCK IT OFF




The best thing about this thread despite the spoilers attempts is the fact that over 13k people have read it and thats exactly what people such as you two dont want, you dont want people to know the truth becuase you are scared that your war mongering days will soon be over.

When a threat comes along you have to deal with it and right now America is a threat to World peace. History has shown us that sooner or later such threats are dealth with and removed and the clocks ticking.


Oh ya know what,, you have had your testimony impeached for so much sensationalism and out right lies, you no longer can be trusted and have lost all credibility,, so just,,


SHUT UP

- Con









[edit on 23-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology

Remember the reds under the beds in the 60's and 70's in the US, the big commie bogey man. And what happened, you go into Vietnam to try and stop the spread of communism and the end result is millions dead that did not need to die and it did not change anything, same with Korea.


No true, South Korea is a strong economy and Vietnam does much with our Country now.


Did you notice that when he talks about Vietnam, it was like after the US left, everything was wine and roses?? Nothing about the communist re-education camps that killed thousands.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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Thanks Con for pointing out his lies about our words.

Ok I'm going to attempt to say what I believe one more time.

Before America came along there have been numerous despots in history. Evil men that no-one can defend as being goodly. Historicly they have always been a part of our past. America did'nt create them. Evil has manifested itself time and time again.

Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier
Nicolae Ceausescu
Idi Amin
Pol Pot
Tamerlane
Ivan the Terrible
Maximillien Robespierre
Joseph Stalin
Adolf Hitler
Mao Zedong
Sadam Hussein
etc.

It can even be said that even those considered good rulers had a bit of evil in them. During the middle ages a conquerer would often raze the entire city or slaughter the entire populace to prove a point. Even one of the great kings of England used the threat of tossing babies into the air and catching them on pikes to subdue the walled city of Harfleur. During the battle of Agincourt soon after he had his men slaughter the captured prisoners to prevent them for revolting. Historian do not blame him for these things. Rather they just chalk it up to the times.

But after the end of WWII we entered a new era. We now have a global consiousness. No longer should we stand by like we did prior to the atrocities of Hitler and Mousolini. I believe that we as global citazens have a responsiblility to act when action is warranted. This is what the Geneva covention and NATO was all about. We are guilty if we stand by and watch it occur. The UN and NATO have proven that they will not act in a timmely manner. Hell before 9-11 the US would allow itself to be bogged down. But at least with this President it came home to roost. He has made the desicion that it would not happen again on his watch. Now maybe the WTC means nothing to you and by itself maybe it doesnt warrant as large of a response that it got. But it's the threat that is being addressed.

Now the intellegence communities were of a single voice prior to the invasion of Iraq. Not just the US intel folks but everyones. the UN passed over 14 resolutions against Iraq. Hell I dont know what happened to the WMD but I've been to briefing personally and I've seen the pictures of the dead Kurds in the Northern no fly zones. The gas that killed them wasnt imaginary. The pictures of dead Kurdish mothers still holding their infants tore my heart out. they proved by it's very use they had it and were willing to use it. maybe thats all they had I dont know, but the US was not the only ones fooled if they did'nt. But the millions who died under Sadam were still dead non the less. Now being dead whether your killed by Sadam or the US is a horrible thing but I think you'll agree (I hope) that living free should be a right for every human being. The Shiites, Kurds, Christians, or the pretty young daughters that happened to be seen by Uday Hussein were not free. Sadam Hussein was evil. In my mind and in GW Bush's mind this is a fact (Maybe not yours I dont know). Based on the initial Gulf War that was the liberation of Kuwait we felt we had enough information that not only pointed at action, based on history it demanded action.

We HAD the resolve. We wanted to do more. We as a nation were ready to clean things up. Bring the consequences to any leader (Despot) who abused their own peoples human rights. The world had to opportunity to release the hounds and stand with the US as we brought freedom to the people of this planet. But that door has closed and were back to watching the atrocities continue in North Korea and Zimbabwe and other locations instead of liberating them from hungar, cruelty, and oppression.

Thats the way I see it. We wanted to bring democracy and freedom to the people of this planet. But we are denied by your in ability to recognize the fighters for freedom from the fighters for oppression.

Evil has been here before and it will always attempt to get a foothold.

Will



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 07:56 PM
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I posted the above for one reason. It's because Magicmushroom pointed out the number of people who have read this. I wanted to clarify my points. Since this is basicly a bash the US thread I dont think any good can spring from it anymore. We say black and they say white. I appreciate ya'll reading and posting here but I'm not going to convince MM and his like minded bretheren and visa versa.

I'm on the the next endeavor.

Well met West and Con.

adieu.

Will



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by William Marshal
 


Don't leave now! It's just getting to the good part. I want to hear their ideas, plans, and answers for the scenarios I posted above this!



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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Opps. Fat fingered the "post" button again!

[edit on 23-7-2008 by jerico65]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by William Marshal
 


Well,, here is where you and I disagree Will,, as it was US that sold Sadam the Chemical weapons and the receipts were public record up until about a year ago but I have still have the copies of the documents. Our CIA was there while the were chemical attacking the khurds. Our CIA was there taking notes. Remember it was OUR Government that supported Sadam back then and you may not remember this but Haliburton was busted 4 years ago selling nuclear components to Iran.

Our Government trained and supplied many of the terrorists we would end up having to fight due to the blowback of our CIA'a own meddling.

I know you are a Bush guy but I can't tolerate a liar and someone who thinks he is above the law and ducks questions using executive privlege and National Security. Bush was a crook all the way back when the Savings and loan scandal during the eighties. The fact is WE DO meddle in things we don't have any business meddling with and when you follow the dollar sign, it has NOTHING to do with making you and my life more secure or to lift any burden on us.

I can't stand Obama because he was a crook in chicago (Where I grew up) he has no experience his voting record is abysmally liberal giving millions to Kenya and not much else, I mean I don't get how he has come from virtual obscurity to the new RFK some are saying.

I just don't get it.

America can be a son of a bitch

- Con



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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Hey Con

I agreee with you about Obama 100%. But one positive side effect of the guy is that the world seems to love him. And we already know that as long as we all FEEL good it must all be good. lol

As far as the rest? I'll look into what you said and I already have to an extent. No offense but I think your name talks to these accusations. I cant find anything about any of that in any trusted news agencies or periodicals. Oh sure I can find it on the web., but I can find alot of drivel on the web.

Documents? Hmmm I've never heard of falsified documents. Ever!

Post me some links. (seriously)

Oh and as far as us selling the agents to them your correct. Hell we had them in our arsenal as well. Along with most other countries. They were chiefley developed during the trench war fare of WWI by Germany, France, England and us. War has always been ugly. Minefields were comon and the Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC) were pretty much non existent. The world has grown and we are becomming more and more civilized in our approach to how we War with one another (I know that sounds crazy to a lot of folks but it's true). LOAC training is an integrated part of military life. We do have individual warriors who break these laws on all sides. But the principles have generally aggreed to adhere to them (unless your a terrorist). point is we got rid of them along with the rest of the civilized world. Sadam was supposed to, but he refused to verify that he had. Hense our current situation.

Even if the CIA did take notes it doesnt mean they condoned the act. He'll could we have stoped it? Over 180,000 Kurds died, and people still think we were wrong for stepping in. And thats after the world (UN) through more than 14 resolutions spoke out against Sadam. And again maybe if 9-11 hadnt happened maybe we wouldnt have stepped in. But it did and then we did.

Will



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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we have not grown as a species have we? we still wage war on each other.

think about how we have DEvolved





take care all
res



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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Yes Res your correct, Sad but true.

How do we stop it is the real question? How do we get to the point of no war? Whats the answer?

Some here think America goes away and peace breaks out all over the planet. What do you think?

Personally I think it will happen when all the worlds dictators are gone.

Free Societies don't generally wage war on each other.

Will



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 08:37 AM
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There are many who believe the US has never stopped being a colony of Britain, always under the control of the ruling elite of Europe who call all the shots around the world. Folks love to point out the common bloodline shared by the Windsors and the Bush's. It was a British PM who first used the phrase "special relationship" in relation to US/UK ties.

In light of this information, I say....

ATTACK BRITAIN NOW!



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by darkbluesky
There are many who believe the US has never stopped being a colony of Britain, always under the control of the ruling elite of Europe who call all the shots around the world. Folks love to point out the common bloodline shared by the Windsors and the Bush's. It was a British PM who first used the phrase "special relationship" in relation to US/UK ties.

In light of this information, I say....

ATTACK BRITAIN NOW!


See what I mean, due to the fact we are both Free Societies it make a fine joke. Really I'll join in and drink the Kool-Aide if GWB somehow remains our president after the elections. But what are you willing to do if he just fades away like every President before him? How will that play into the theories?

I contend that he is just playing the hand that was dealt as he sees fit. Doing exactly what he was elected to do, Lead. Not react to (no offense meant) the conspiracy theories and tripe. And as far as a president being a saint? I think Jimmy Carter was a good man if not a bit mis guided. But he was a horrible president. It takes a tough SOB or DOB to live in that house.

Will



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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CON, I am not a liar, I have been called all sorts of names on this thread by plenty of so called intelligent Americans and I dont know how many times I have heard some Americans saying we can turn Iran into glass etc. if not on this thread but many others.

Thats all the war mongers for you, the one with the Agressive Avatars, thats their mind set. And if you dont think Americans would kill their own what is wrong with you, Just recently we have had a number of deaths due to people being tasered. Remember WACO where your fellow Americans were gassed, shot and burnt to death, men, women and children. But its just all lies made up by me is it not, they are not facts are they.

The problem is it does not matter what facts or evidence is presented to certain people they just dont believe it or accept it. There are a number of reasons for that, one is fear, one is trust in the sytem and the other is those who do the dirty work and if you dont believe it will happen I'm sorry for you. What do you think the Nazis where before they joined the club, they were people from all walks of life and in no time at all they were turned into killing machines so dont sit there and tell me that it wont or cannot happen in the US when it already is happening and you know it is as you have already expressed your own concerns over these matters.

How many threads has there been about what is going wrong inside the US and mind that most of the posters are American. What do you get, you get the brain dead calling them 5th collumists, and traitors to the country.

Well no the real traitors to the country are the ones who support Bush and his murdering money grabbing gang and the wars they start. They are not true Americans they are a threat to real Americans because they want war, they want power and they get off on it. These people will take you to hell and wont give a dam.

The true Americans are those who want peace, to have a good standard of living and health care. A Goverment that listens to the people and puts them 1st and not the corporate monsters. the Americans who believe in the Constitution and respect it and what it stands for. There are people in the US right now who would piss on your Constitution, even that Moron Bush called it a dam bit of paper, so what does that tell you.

History has shown us that there are those who want to have everything and will do anything to get it and then they are backed up by the henchmen who do their dirty work for them. Those are facts and if you and all the others dont want to believe those facts then there is nothing I can do but it does not alter the truth.

To those who quote other despot nations of the past and present please start a thread on any of them and I will be more than happy to partake in the debate.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 12:37 PM
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DARK, you quite correct with your statement, but alas as the European money men own and control America there will be no attack of good old Blighty.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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WILLIAM, if we want to stop war then the first thing you do is to identify the perps. At the moment they would mainly be Europeans and Zionists as they seem to have all the money and all the cards.

What is required is an elevation of consciousness of the human mind and the removal of the material trap that enslaves us all to the parasites in charge.

Only then will we advance to the next stage, but I'm affraid that those in charge may have a plan to remove many of us to form their master race/slave nation.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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I gotta chuckle, It just dawned on me. None of this is new. None of your arguments are unique.

I actually had to laugh when you somehow compared the Tazer thing. Like a foul reaction being Tazered by someone somehow made the action an evil intent instead of just a cop doing his job. And as if it only happens in the good ol USA. I think there is a thread in ATS right now about a Canadian kid dieing for that very same thing.

I guess every time a person has an allergic reaction to anti biotics the doctor who prescribed it is somehow akin to Joseph Mengela.

But just to prove this is just tripe and as soon as George is gone you will just re-adjust fire and concentrate you rhetoric another way.

Now here to put on a really big Shoe

the FAB 5 From Liverpool

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction (Attack America Now)
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan (Yes we would)
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate (Minds that hate?)
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution (Dam that institution anyway)
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao (Bin Laden?)
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right


Man you guys are like the Mafia , I tried to get out but yall just keep pulling me back in.

By the way you keep saying that we are supposedly smart. I never said that I was. All I said is that I had an opinion.

Will



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by William Marshal
 



Originally posted by William Marshal
the UN passed over 14 resolutions against Iraq.

Actually, Iraq ignored 19 resolutions over a period of 12 years.



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