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Court says 'gay' rights trump Christian rights

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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 


Then why were they barred?
If they hadn't held a different view, then, they could have had FREE speech.

This is what their lawyer said rather poignantly;

"It is encouraging that the court affirmed the rights of Christians to go into the public square and engage in free speech activities. However, it does seem somewhat contradictory to say that, on the one hand the Philly 11 had a constitutionally protected right to be present at the event and to speak, but then to also say that if the crowd does not like their message, the Philly 11 can be removed."


The whole permit thing is what I don't get.
Why do I need a permit to have a protest?
Who's to say I would be given one? Maybe they don't want to.




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 


Interesting that you keep making off topic posts but call me out on mine, and try to tell me how to make them. It really points out your whole perspective on these issues: selfish, self-centered, egotistical, and exclusionary. Good thing you don't represent the membership at large here.

God is part of everything I do. You need to learn to separate God and religion. It would make your participation here a lot more meaningful. What is it about the Bible that is so offensive to you, are you demon possessed or something?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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To the guy that said something about Easter sunrise service, we have ours at church.
But, if we had one at a large public park, I might expect someone to come and protest these days.

But, if it's to the point that OURS is small and quiet and they have megaphones, so that we can't hear, I think that would be an infringement. Maybe a 'disturbing the peace' type thing.
Or we might go to church, till the furor is over.
Out fests aren't meant to be peaceful, but raucous and flamboyant.





[edit on 22-7-2008 by Clearskies]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


Then why were they barred?

I don’t know, far as I’ve seen neither side gives a detailed description of the event. I have confidence the police wouldn’t have arrested these individual if they didn’t have a reason, plenty of protesters against gays go un-bothered, the police have better things to do.

This is what their lawyer said

You’ll forgive me if I don’t take their lawyers word on this issue, for obvious reasons.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Icarus Rising
 



Interesting that you keep making off topic posts but call me out on mine

You’ve got me there, usually I was simply replying to others slightly off topic points, but I get what you mean.

God is part of everything I do.

And every argument you have, we get it.

You need to learn to separate God and religion.

You need to learn to separate both in an argument that does not warrant their involvement.


What is it about the Bible that is so offensive to you, are you demon possessed or something?

The bible as a whole doesn’t offend me, it tells some interesting stories.

It is people who offend me, people who use it to fuel hate and agendas, and assume it is fact with out considering the source.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 05:06 PM
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Well since god/religion are hypothetical . They shouldn't be used in/as part of your argument .



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 05:12 PM
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Ultimately, Religions which are based on reason ( no matter the fable required to convey it) are sound. However Reasoning based on Religion is just a fallacy.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 


Inexplicable and supernatural for sure, hypothetical, never.

Lets face it, you Christian haters won't agree with me because I am Christian, not because my arguments are without merit. I have detailed the free speech argument, the participation of both parties to the case, the findings of the courts, and the arguments of the lawyers pretty much without fault. You have responded with a bunch of hypothetical, rhetorical what ifs and villified me for questioning their validity. The shoe isn't on the other foot, this is a one-legged strawman.

What you really can't stand is a Bible quoting, nutjob, hypocrite Christian knowing what he is talking about and laying it on the line.

Come on, be honest. Admit it. Your pride will only hurt for a second. You'll feel better afterward, I promise.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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Isn't it funny how no couple in history meaning a man and a woman who have ONLY had sex with each other have ever gotten aids or a full blown sexual disease? Remember that when you stick up for corruption and sexual immorality. Yes, I believe the luciferians (aka masons, illuminati, rosecrucians, skull and boes, dragons) have engaged in secretly making some babies grow up gay in their genes just to attempt to debunk Christianity. I love all people but that does not mean I am going to accept sexual immorality which is what homosexuality is. You don't see animals doing it, so tell me this: HOW IS IT NORMAL FOR PEOPLE. It clearly is NOT. What is the point of having a man and a woman, which are the only couple that can produce children? Doesn't this mean anything to you? GEEZ, wake up people.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by Icarus Rising
 


you Christian haters won't agree with me because I am Christian

Hate is a strong word to be throwing around; I often wonder if people doing so carelessly even know its meaning. I don’t hate you because you are a Christian; again you are the one making this about your religion as well. You can’t get upset when people involve your fate in a discussion, when you also refuse to have a discussion with out it.


not because my arguments are without merit.

Any argument that needs something that has nothing to do with it to stand on its own feet isn’t much of an argument, and any person who needs such an argument has little merit.

What you really can't stand is a Bible quoting, nutjob, hypocrite Christian knowing what he is talking about and laying it on the line.

What are you talking about exactly? Where is the detailed conclusion of these events? How can you come to an unbiased conclusion on this issue when it looks like you’ve only been paying attention to the details from one side of the story, vague details at that.

And how have you proven religion belongs in this discussion? How have you shown that these people would not have been arrested if they were protesting gays with out their religious beliefs along for the ride? How have these individuals being arrested infringed on freedom of speech that involves religious rights?


[edit on 22-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


I have 2 gay cats that will not go near female cats AT ALL. They fight with them tooth and nail . Dolphins can be gay . There are gay dogs . Your argument is invalid.
(About animals)
BTW if a plant is stressed and or its light cycle changed it will "hermie" Producing seeds by producing both male and female flowers to save itself from extinction. Would it not make sense for a species to do the opposite in fear of over population?


And to IR :

Yes your notions do make you an easy target . Same as anyone in an institution that has claimed to speak to "god" . Or anyone in prison for killing in his name .
But it is you who is quoting the scripture . Not us .


[edit on 22-7-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by Icarus Rising
 


Yes, I agree that they had a right to be there, but knowing their agenda was to create a confrontation, the group had a right to request they leave.

Warrior



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 


How are those questions even relevant? More hypothetical blather. Have you read through the thread? Its all in there. Its not up to me to tie it all up in a neat little package with a bow on top for you just because you aren't keeping up with the thread. Do your homework.

The Bible quoting and the religious asides have been in response to attacks on Christianity, which, what do you know, is a Bible based religion. The Bible is a story book to you. You are not fond of the Christian religion (I call it a spiritual movement). That much is clear from your posts. I think you are letting that cloud your reason.

I have been hated on in this thread for quoting the Bible and being Christian. I'm not complaining about it or asking for a medal. I'm stating it as a fact. It goes with the territory.

I'm going to quote the Bible again here. This one is a repeat, I'm pretty sure. If you don't want to see it, stop reading here.



John 15

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


That's just fine by me. I will take Jesus loving me and being hated by the world over the love of the world and separation from Christ any time.

I think I may be done with this thread.

Peace. Out.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by Icarus Rising
 


Its all in there

Please answer my questions. I do not see how this debate has anything to do with religion or imposing on someone’s religious freedom. If you do not kindly show me where the detailed outline of these events proves your point then you are a less than stellar debater, and should stop saying you are correct. If you are correct how hard is it to show me as much?

Again: Any argument that needs something that has nothing to do with it to stand on its own feet isn’t much of an argument, and any person who needs such an argument has little merit.

So, can your argument stand with out your excuses?

Again: You brought religion into this debate as well.

I think I may be done with this thread.


Peace. Out.


I’m shocked.











posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Icarus Rising
 


I think you are letting that cloud your reason.

I don’t think I’ve ever so amusingly seen a pot calling a kettle black.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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I am posting this reply because I am watching "Family Guy" . They are making fun of gay people. I'm watching this with my gay roomate and we are laughing our butts off. Sometimes you have to laugh at the human condition.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by Icarus Rising
 


"Christian Rights"? Christian Rights?

Where the heck do I find THOSE in my Constitution???

No such thing. Indeed, our Forefathers expressly set up this government to PREVENT ANY religion from being established.

Stating there are so-called "Christian" rights indeed does just that which was expressly forbidden.

Question: Are all fundies as ignorant of the US Constitution as you?

Truly, you would feel much more at home in a country like Iran, or Pakistan, where religion decides the government form. or Israel, where they think some minor Canaanite god named yahweh GAVE them land that belonged and belongs to others.

Please keep your fairy tale myths in your home and church, and quit lobbing the baloney on others out in public: You are infringing on our right to be left alone by fundies.

There was NO jesus.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by Quazga
Ultimately, Religions which are based on reason ( no matter the fable required to convey it) are sound. However Reasoning based on Religion is just a fallacy.

While I agree that reasoning based on religion is a fallacy, I believe religion based on reason is also a fallacy. After all, faith is the core of all religion. Faith is belief without proof. Reason is based on logic. Logic is driven by fact, which is a proven truth. Fact & logic are the antithesis of faith.

I understand that Icarus Rising and any other Christians on this thread may have now left. I also apologise if this has already been covered - I know it has been touched on, but there's a lot of pages on this thread and I haven't made it through them all yet.

What I'd like to know is how Christians would feel if a bunch of gay people wearing bright rainbow colours stormed into their church and protested their service right in the middle of a sermon, or in the middle of communion. I believe this comparison has been raised, but I've yet to see a Christian address it (again, apologies if this has been covered, I do intend to get through the rest of the thread this afternoon)

I just simply cannot imagine the majority of Christians responding with 'Well, that's alright, they have a right to free speech and a right to protest just like the rest of us'. I'm sure there would be a handful that react that way, but I honestly believe the majority would respond with 'get those heathens out of God's house and stop them disturbing my gathering'.



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