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Do you understand to what extent a Government, any Government, would go to in order to control its citizens and to what extreme it is willing to go in order to maintain that control no matter what?
1) I do understand that the government is willing to do a lot to try to contain the public. I also know that they have held back in certain times, for example Operation Northwoods was devised in 1968 and its goal was for the US to make a terrorist attack on there country and blame it on Cuba so they could attack. This however was denied but the president. Is it too much to have a tiny bit of faith that some one in the government will do the write thing.
To what level do you understand of your own Government, as well as other countries Government’s around the world, and where did you ascertain the level of understanding you arrived at currently?
2) My current understanding of government is mixed. When Above Politics was active i enjoyed reading the threads, but now i have to just scan through the web. My thoughts on government is that it is many corrupt people all out for them selves, but at the same time there are people there looking out for the little man.
Are you pro-Government, anti-Government, or somewhere inbetween?
3)I'm some where in between, it think its a great idea which has went wrong. I think many people would agree here when i say that some people need to be sacked, but others need to be aloud to have more say in matters.
Have you or anyone within your direct and or indirect family ever served within the military and or Government, and how has that person had an influence upon your perspective on global politics?
4)My grand father was in the army, but except him i have zero family history in army and politics. Everything i learned has been self taught.
Are you an “in the box”, “out of the box”, or “destroy the box and start over” thinker?
1)Can you actually give me a name of the country where it was made ? or is this all just complete speculation with no real evidence.
2)If you can name the country then can you also tell me the lab or the people involved.
QuestionCan you tell me how they made it that long ago with their lack of technology.
can you please reply to my aforementioned questions.
Question 1) from what Ive read you seem to have ZERO proof, everything is just putting pieces together which are just there. Do you have any evidence of records or transcripts that mention H5N1 ?
Question 2) If you do not have the aforementioned in question one, do you now admit that you are just guessing and making speculations with zero real evidence.
Having read most of the debates in this Forum I feel that SpartanKingLeonidas spent too much time on subjects that dont pertain to the debate. Him having read "the art of war" for example, might tell him a bit about covert warfare but does nothing to prove that Birdflu is man-made. It might be that this was done due to lack of "meat" for his case.
ProTo Firefox on the other hand posted too little in comparison. Simply stating "there´s no evidence" may be enough elsewhere, but in this Forum it is expected to put a bit more effort into rebuttals. Apart from the Spartans lack of proof his strongest point of the debate was the fact that not too many people (comparitively) had fallen victim to the diseases associated with BirdFlu.
Who is the winner of this debate then? If I were to base my judgement purely on hard facts, it might be ProTo FireFox.
The winner is SpartanKingLeonidas though. Not on account of his cunning debate skills but on the strength of the referenced sources. I did have to leave the debate and read up on the various links and sources in order to find out that there indeed is a case for man-made viruses and bio-weapons. Quite chilling a case in fact, that warrants further investigation.
Having convinced me that further investigation is needed will suffice for a debate win.
I judge SpartanKingLeonidas to be the winner of the Bird Flu debate. He covered the subject well, gave background to support his judgments, presented sufficient resources for his data and asked probing and thought-provoking questions.
While ProTo Fire Fox was a worthy opponent and asked excellent questions, I found his presentation of facts that support his position to be somewhat lacking. He seemed to assume that his position was the default truth unless his opponent could prove otherwise. And he only presented one source, which failed to support his assertion.
Congratulations to both ProTo Fire Fox and SpartanKingLeonidas on a job well done.
Although I can understand the intentions of SKL trying to lay some groundwork for his position, I feel it became more of a case of filibustering than it was a presentation of evidence or rebuttal of arguments. He did provide some interesting points but I have to agree with PTFF that it was speculation and guesswork more than anything else. SKL provided several links of government experiments with biological warfare but nothing I saw that was related to the H5N1 virus directly (or as directly as we could have hoped for). Most people are going to know that biological warfare has taken place so without a specific tie-in to the H5N1 virus, the links to various experiments didn't seem to be entirely relevant to this specific debate topic. I also didn't feel the explanation of 'you won't find [documentary] evidence because it was a cover-up' to be sufficient.
I was slightly confused by the amount of time spent on questions and answers dealing with the opinions of government and power. It is certainly understandable how it was somewhat relevant to the debate but the question and answer sessions overcame the presentation of evidence and rebuttals. PTFF made a good point when he offered an interesting link on the history of outbreaks dating back to the B.C. era- a point I never saw SKL refute with facts but instead offered what appeared to me to be more grandstanding and speculation.
In the end, I have to go with ProTo Fire Fox as the winner.