Mob attacks officers over litter

I cannot believe the garbage dribbling out of peoples mouths here, lets look at this at different angles.

You have a group of "chavs" hanging around outside your home, Its nice for them, they have a wall to sit on its not too far from the shop for them to badger people to go in and get them their white lightning or other forms of cheap cider/alchol. They are constantly hanging around outside you home on the street dropping their cider cans everywhere along with their fag ends and other trash, they are there in a large group (as they often are) and you feel intimidated when you want to even go to your car, You walk out and ask politely "could you please move along as you are littering my street and garden" what do you suppose their response would be. "Oh sorry kind sir we did not relise our jesting around and littering was causing so much trouble, we will clean it up imediatly and move along, have a plesant evening and as a apology we shall be along in the morning to cut your grass and tidy your garden" if you believe this could happen then I am sorry but you live in a dream world. What would more likely to happen is "Who the F*** are you? You ay me dad, do ya think your the 50?" then would be an onslaught of any chav who wants to add a ASBO to his collection of so called respect. and by some of your logic on this discussion you could phone the police and they could say to you "Well you should have waited untill they had left then gone out and cleaned it up yourself and took the high road to teach them a lesson".

I really do not know how some of you make it through a day with your logic, I really dont. The police are here to enforce the law of this land and if that means asking someone to pick up the litter they have dropped on the floor then that should be respected on done.

In all honesty the laws are too slack in this country and the youths think they are untouchable, go back 30 or so years and you would get a clip around the ear for not addressing a police officer politly. If you have nothing to hide then their should be no need to worry about the police. If they stop and search you, you can call it what you want but atleast they are doing their job and if only one person they stop is carrying a gun/knife and are sent down then I think it is well worth it and one more scumbag off the street.

One last thing in this post that was going to be short but is now boardering on a small novel. I was once removed from a nightclub (wrongly) their was a bit of comotion with the doorman and the police showed up, I thought oh great im gonna get nicked. but to my suprise they got my side of events and the clubs only to find I was refunded my entrance fee and the price of my 3/4 drunk drink and a voucher for a free round for the next time I went to said club. People have got to remember the police are here to enforce the law and as long as you stay on the right side of it you have nothing to fear. I could rant on but my fingers are now aching.

theukman

the system that we see, has many sides, we give an opinion but not always aware of (all) of the facts. Why does the law always seem to work one way? The government make laws for most but (they) do not stick to them,it is the people who should have the final say, not only by the voting box, 4 years can be a long time to control .

And not a word of it wasted, excellently put.

Originally posted by T.Smith
reply to post by Sonya610

 

Wait a minute did i just read that right?.
That its basically the ethnic minorities fault for your high gun crime rates?
If you don't mind id like some evidence to back this up, since a pretty bold accusation to make.
I will be more than willing to eat my hat if your right.

Well it isn't ALL minority groups, its mostly just the males of one group that comprise about 6% of our population.

Here are the stats. The sources are good too, anti-gun websites and gov sites.

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www.bradycenter.org... (anti-gun site)

In 1998, 94 percent of the Black murder victims were slain by black offenders.

In 1997, Black males accounted for 45 percent of all homicide victims, while they only account for 6 percent of the entire population.


----------------------------------------------------------

www.wagv.org... (women against gun violence)

In the US approximately 2,500 black youth (aged 15-24) die annually from gun homicide, 950 Hispanic youths and 600 white youth (Harvard Injury Control Research Center, Harvard School of Public Health. "Racial Disparities and Firearm Deaths Among Youth.")

(Let's remember when reading above that whites make up 60% of the population, Hispanics about 20% and blacks 13%, black males make up about 6% yet account for 45% of ALL gun homicide victims)

-------------------------------
www.ojp.gov... (goverment site)

Approximately 52 percent of gun homicide victims are African-American, even though they represent less than 13 percent of the total population. African-American males between the ages of 15 and 24 have the highest firearm homicide rate of any demographic group. Their firearm homicide rate of 103.4 deaths per 100,000 is 10 times higher than the rate for white males in the same age group (10.5 deaths per 100,000). In 1997, 92 percent of homicides of young African-American men occurred by firearms, compared to 68 percent of homicides by firearms in the general population.5 Even though violent crime rates, including crimes committed with guns, have declined each year since 1993, according to Federal Bureau of Investigation trend reports,6 guns remain the leading cause of death for young African-American males.7


If all Americans were killed with firearms at the same rate as African-American males between the ages of 15 and 24 (103.4 per 100,000), there would be 276,843 firearm homicide victims annually in the United States. (Based on 1997 CDC numbers and a total population of 267,636,061.)




[edit on 19-7-2008 by Sonya610]

Wow…I just found another article that gets a bit more “specific” about the offenders in this case. What a surprise…

uk.news.yahoo.com...

One of the policemen was treated in hospital for bite wounds after the attack in a shopping precinct in Croydon, south London, Wednesday. The officers, aged 34 and 29, were on sick leave with bruising and knee injuries.

A number of men in their 30s and 40s and several women joined in the attack. All those involved were black, London's Metropolitan Police said.

One of the officers who was bitten, and is now recovering at home, said: "They were acting like animals, but I hate using the term 'animals' because they would not do that. Animals have a reason for doing something.

A 15-year-old girl was arrested at the scene on suspicion of assault and bailed. When her parents arrived to pick her up, they complained about having their summer holiday interrupted, one of the attacked officers added.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Sonya610


nice find.

Nice to see the plot thickening and not completely focussed on 'chavs'.

In a way, I'm kinda glad it was not just chavs involved, if any at all...

not sure if I like the focus on the ethnicity though as reported by the media there.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
the system that we see, has many sides, we give an opinion but not always aware of (all) of the facts. Why does the law always seem to work one way? The government make laws for most but (they) do not stick to them,it is the people who should have the final say, not only by the voting box, 4 years can be a long time to control .

The people do have the final say. It is called "jury nullification" where the jurors can choose to aquit if a law is deemed unjust either in general or in a particular case. Part of the problem is that the court lies rather than simply not disclosing.

When I was summoned for jury duty the presiding judge on the case was disingenuous about the law by telling jurors that they were obligated to uphold it to the letter which is an utter farce. Incidentally, I wasn't selected for this case as a juror.

I recall that it even became illegal in the US for counsel to mention this common law right to a jury and that doing so puts the representation in contempt. This of course implies that it is still legal for juries to exercize their rights but they will have to educate themselves about this defacto power. By staying unaware of facts the people have abdicated their throne.

reply to post by Sonya610


Hello Sonya, just would like to say I live close to the area and go there often, so I pretty much know what kind of things goes on there.
My earlier post.

I believe it because I live close to the area and I know these types of kids, sometimes rarely they DO walk around in a group of about 30. And not for doing nothing, they got trouble on their mind.

They walk aound in groups and try to intimidate everyone around them, they are ALL weak minded, self concious and pathetic, no offence to one of you if your reading this lol, the reason they hang in big groups is to make them feel less self concious less weak, it makes them feel better, they feel part of something.

Just so some of you get a better idea of the area. It's a nice area great for shopping, all kinds of people go there to the shopping centre/mall, and other shops. It's just that teenagers like to hang around there too, some are really nice, some are there for trouble.

I have noticed there is ALWAYS police hanging around there, they do feel intimidating, and have come up to me on a couple of occasions, they are pretty annoying lol.

So you got groups of teenagers looking for trouble and police everywhere looking for trouble that equals = big trouble!... haha

In this instance they were all black teenagers who got involved, and some older adults who were walking by, probably felt the need to join in for some apparent reason.

But in croydon it is really multicultral. The trouble makers there, you have white groups of teenagers walking around, black groups, mixed groups all races, and most of all I see asian groups(pakistani, bangladesh, afghans etc) , but usually they have problems with other asians lol

So in this instance they were black, but like I said, there are groups of all races of teenager causing trouble sometimes around that area.

Anyway I explained the reason why these teenagers hang in groups like this, and that reason is for all races. Usually the bigger the group, the higher the risk of trouble happening, you know why? all it takes is ONE of them to be crazy enough to do something stupid, the rest who probably don't want to get involed, HAVE to back him up. Because they are all weak minded, scared sheeple types.

Well there ya go, grew up around them, went to school with them, see them everyday. Haha but the great thing about croydon is it has a LOT of nice people of all sorts going there for a nice time shopping, so except for these trouble makers, it's a fun place to go.




[edit on 19-7-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_ I believe it because I live close to the area and I know these types of kids, sometimes rarely they DO walk around in a group of about 30. And not for doing nothing, they got trouble on their mind.

Yeah just be aware. You may be color blind, but trust me others are not. I don’t mean the ones wearing strict Muslim attire. There are those that dislike you because you are a skinny white boy. You can be as multicultural as you like, just realize being multicultural doesn’t mean much when you are getting stomped on. Watch yourself, don’t learn the hard way.

The fact this happened in YOUR community means something.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Sonya610


LOL I know what you mean, don't worry I "grew up" around these people, so I have gotten into sticky situations, so I'm as street wise as you can get around here.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Good to hear. You come across as Polly Anna in some ways. Guess you have a clue about the reality of the world. : )

Haha Polly Anna, I'm like a female again lol.

Like I said earlier, London is a great place! Very beautiful on a sunny day. The people make the most of it haha, and as a "man", I love the fact that there are women from all over the world here

But there is a "dark" side. Like this news report.
Anyway you seem interested in this, so I found some videos so you can get a better idea of the crappy side of london because of these gangster wannabes, trouble makers. Check them out if your bored, be warned thou, it might make you feel depressed. If so watch some good light hearted videos about london instead haha. The power of youtube.

Dumbass London Gangs
www.youtube.com...
Cannot embed this, but the best video to get an idea of about the stupid gangs in london. Clever gangsters are ones we don't know about, not posers.


Anyway here's an example of dumbass white gangster wannabes in northern england manchester.


Here's proof to the other guy that kids do hang around in groups of 30+ lol.
To be honest they are not doing anything bad in this video, but they are SUPER POSERS lol.


Sometimes delays happen on a bus journey because of these chavs lol



There are many girl group trouble makers too. lol trust me!!

Anyway for something more lighthearted, here's a video on how "you" can become a chav.
They don't really end up looking like one anyway, I just thought it was funny and cute how silly it is, they don't look scary or like a chav at all haha, I'll give them A for effort thou. But they failed at this. haha


So anyway, like with everything, all this post focused on the negatives, but I can assure you there are plenty of positives to living in london that makes all this negative stuff fade away, trust me, you just gotta know where to go, and what to do.

Don't let these videos stop you from visiting. lol It's just one small "part" of what happens in london.

I'm sure people can show me ugly videos of US gangs etc. too.

But I'm sure there are a lot of great places to go in the US.



[edit on 19-7-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by Zanzibar
reply to post by Gatordone

 

It's almost impossible for anyone outside the UK to understand really, only first hand experience really gives you the full picture. This 'reaction' comes from everywhere, be it rural or urban areas.

Hey great posts. You obviously live in the uk lol

Anyway I found some videos that can give people outside the uk an "idea" of what they are and why a lot of people hate them.




[edit on 19-7-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by Cantwara


I'd disagree slightly with the code of dress, I think it's the life style choice that truly describes a chav, ie scum bag worthless.

Yeah true, almost everyone hates them, all types of people.

And you right about what they do that describes them not really the clothing. For example most people of all classes in london own a hoodie. I wear a hoodie sometimes, but I also wear shirts, jackets, coats, jumpers(sweater), tshirts etc. Just fashion.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by theukman


Ok, I can see what your saying.

It's tough for us Americans to understand the dynamic over there.

I'm just reeling from this other news story where a blind old lady was tazed by cops in Ohio. I thought maybe this was simply the first sign of legitimate resistance.

reply to post by Cantwara


Well I am not in that town any longer so I have no worries about them. The rest have the option to take it into their own hands but that is iffy in the end.

But frankly the problem is that most of them are located near each other. This is also a community that is 97% rural. Last time I was living there they only had three officers and a chief. Even then only one or two are on duty at a time. Several in the community have tried to get together to take on the family and set about justice but they scattered only to find most of the individuals later out by themselves. This family is like some nasty mix of predator and parasite.

When they find someone on their own that has been an issue with them before they will literally make hamburger meat of the person if they are lucky.

I understand the vigilantism thing, but a part of me really thinks a large part of who they are is in their genes while the rest is of course nurture. The family is also only a real issue if they are together. If one gets wounded when they are out by themselves the others seem to be able to smell it like bees and soon swarm in. They also seem to make up at as much as 1/16 of the town along with their friends (yes some people actually like them). If you have ever seen the movie “The Hills Have Eyes” this family is much like them just not that horrible looking (yet).

Raist

Originally posted by amatrine
Wow. Times have changed. I lived in England 21 years ago.

Back then it was a punk rock scene and the little gangs in the townships were always fighting each other, throwing bricks at each other etc.

I remember after going to a club, when it closed there was always a fight, people getting naked in the club and throwing chairs, etc. But they did not dress in the clothes you are mentioning. They were always punked out.

Ill have to go online and check that out.

Sure you don't mean 31 years ago? 21 years back was just about the start of the Madchester/Baggy/Rave culture, E's started coming in, the year after was "the second summer of love". Football hooliganism was even on the decline because of the Ecstacy and club scenes.

Yes, 87 was the very start of it and maybe a little early to be noticed but the punk scene was dead by then, new romantics were dying, the skinheads were getting fewer, etc etc.

I'm also amused at the Americans deciding the reasons for this trouble without having any idea about the social economic situation in the UK. As someone else said, there is no conspiracy here, it is just unfortunately an everyday problem in Britain. Britain has the highest crime rates in the developed World (except for murder and rape), the violent crime rates are ridiculous but it is nothing new, Britain was founded on violence, and as ironic as it might sound, the 20th century was possibly the least violent British society.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Its just pretty sad when the cops are unarmed and can't even protect THEMSELVES. Sheesh a lot of good they would be if they were called to protect unarmed civilians that are being attacked by thug/mobs.

British police have been unarmed for 100+ years, they are well trained and know exactly how to deal with any situation that comes their way. They also have armed response teams, tactical support teams etc etc.

How can you say "a lot of good they would be when blah blah" when they have been doing it for decades and decades, day in, day out and succeeding. American police regularly come to the UK on exchange and always talk about how impressed they are at the way they are able to handle situations without bringing in an armed response team.

They are a lot of good in these situations because they are trained for them, not just trained to point a gun and hope for surrender before death.

Also, I presume you do know something of the football/soccer hooliganism problem in the UK? Where for decades unarmed police have had to contend with hundreds of aggressive and violent football supporters out for a fight or a riot? Now, British police train all Europe's police in crowd control because they have the most experience and are the best trained.

So, yeah, lot of good they are, eh?

[edit on 20-7-2008 by triplesod]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by Extralien

 

You people in the states have a funny view of life in the UK.

Still, must be difficult accepting the world from your polythene and duct taped wrapped bunkers, surrounded by guns you need in case us Brits come back and recolonise you and living in a permanently paranoid state of fear about "dem dere terrorists" and despising anything that isn't american whilst eulogising about freedom of speech in your designated zones right?

Raises an eyebrow. You people on that little island have a funny view of life in the US. Frankly I am getting a little sick of the US bashing by Brits, it is in you television shows and throughout your little inbred Island. You are so reserved because you have been so inbred and have had a major braindrain in the past 50 years. I will be the first one to state how frustrated I am with America's current mindset but our people have been brainwashed by the best techniques mankind has ever had.

Oh and the guns are for our Government not you. You need to understand most of us here still have our balls. Once this nation awakens to the brainwashing we will again be the ones that pull it out and save mankind.

Now go eat some spotted dick.

I think you'll find he was responding to a stereotypical post about England with a stereotypical post about the US, in a way of saying, "see, this stereotypical picture of an American is hardly true, is it? So why do you think your stereotypical view about Brits would be true?"

Can you understand that?

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by stumason
"Well, uh-huh, if they thar had a gun, Cleetus".

Most rednecks named Cleetus have more character and are more human than 10 beer drinking football crazed Brits put together.

We have stood by you people too long. We are good people and are under some heavy crap over here and deserve a little more respect than that.

"But!.... but you must respect me!! I'm American!!"