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What are Supernormal and "Occult" Abilities'?

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posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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I thought I would post some comments related to supernormal abilities in case there are some people who are curious or who have had a confusing experience in the past. The term "supernormal abilities" here refers to cognitive, psychic or spiritual abilities that ordinary people do not typically have, or that are beyond the understanding of developed science.

I use the term "occult abilities" below to describe a type of abilities or practices that "occultists" might refer to. While the word "occult" itself is defined as "secret," "concealed" or "covered up," I use the term connoting powers or abilities that are dark in nature, or in other words, that aim to gratify a selfish pursuit, egotism, competitiveness, greed, the desire to deceive, or perhaps even hatred and destructiveness.

The content of this post is inspired by guidance I received from a very powerful and very upright spiritual teacher through a practice that naturally cultivates some abilities as byproducts of positive spiritual development. My comments are not intended to criticize anyone or put anyone down, but simply to lay out what the majority, if not all, of the ability types are and how they arise.

First, supernormal abilities developed in an upright spiritual cultivation practice are abilities that reside with the person; they are abilities that the person him or herself possesses and can use at will. Scientifically identified abilities include clairvoyance (seeing over distance), as well as precognition and retrocognition (seeing future and past dimensions of time-space). In addition, there are different levels of wisdom and spiritual understanding that come as the result of being in harmony with universal truth. Telekinesis refers to being able to move objects remotely using invisible energy circulations. All of these are various states that may arise during the course or as a result of one's own spiritual cultivation. There are specific abilities (developed energy matter) that can remove the causes of illnesses. There are abilities associated with martial arts that people may use to enhance their movement, or deliver and withstand blows. And so on... Again, all of these abilities reside with the individual him/herself, and they are under the control of the individual's own will and consciousness.

There are people in the world who possess some of these abilities, either because they developed them or because they possessed these abilities from birth (perhaps developing them in a previous life..assuming you are willing to believe in reincarnation).

There are also forms of "evil" cultivation that exist, whereby individuals will intentionally do bad deeds in order to amass greater amounts of "black karma," which is actually a black energy mass attached to the person, but in another dimension. Through this approach, a person can strengthen his/her inborn abilities by way of the black energy matter. The downside, however, is that this person is accumulating a lot of black or evil karma and will meet with severe retribution as a result: the person's lifespan is usually shortened, one will meet with severe tribulations and/or one would descend after death and become a lower form of life, such as a malevolent spirit or "asura" (as described by some Eastern traditions). Asura are typically monstrous looking beings that, as I'm told, "regard human beings as animals, and therefore like to feed on them." They exist in another dimension, but are able to enter into this dimension and walk among man.

Continued in the next post...



[edit on 18-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]

[edit on 18-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]




posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 12:22 AM
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The other kind of abilities, or what I am calling occultic abilities, could be described as belonging to the realm of sorcery, simply because these abilities are not directly possessed by the individual him/herself, but are channeled or otherwise summoned from other beings. The usual form is that the person involved will draw some type of symbol and/or chant some type of incantation to bring to themselves (or activate, if the individual is already possessed) a low-level spirit in another dimension that actually manipulates external or extra-dimensional circumstances within its control in order to achieve an effect.

A person who is involved in this type of practice may be only vaguely aware, or perhaps not consciously aware at all, of what is happening. That is because the individual's main consciousness is in a suppressed or disassociated state, and the external entity, a low-level spirit, is at that time possessing the individual's mind or body in order to emit its energy or otherwise make use of the limited abilities that the entity/spirit itself has. These low-level beings may also manipulate circumstances to create outcomes in favor of the individual, such as the person gaining some money or some benefit in society. However, in return for this favor, the entity will remove a vital energy substance from the individual's body, as part of an exchange. The entity may furthermore seek to attach itself to the individual's body and try to manipulate the individual's thoughts and behaviors in order to make the individual reliant upon the entity. This way, the entity can strengthen its hold.

In such an instance, the individual may well remain in a state of "spirit possession" with an extra-dimensional entity able to manipulate or dominate the individual, and possibly even replace the individual's main consciousness. Whether this happens or not, the individual who is possessed is likely to become physically weakened or otherwise debilitated over time, as the low-level spirit has depleted his/her vital energy.



[edit on 18-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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How does the ability to, for instance, discern spiritual truths arise? If some of the "darker" abilities arise from negative Karma, do the positive ones arise from "good" karma?



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
How does the ability to, for instance, discern spiritual truths arise? If some of the "darker" abilities arise from negative Karma, do the positive ones arise from "good" karma?



"Good karma," in this example, would refer to another form of energy matter that likewise exists in the same dimension as the bad or black karma. This white karma, which may also be called "virtue," is already assimilated to the positive and true nature of the universe. As I understand, this good/white karma is a precious resource that can be transformed into different states. For example, the Chinese traditionally believed that a person with a good deal of good karma or virtue would have good "inborn quality" and would be able to attain a high and noble position in society, would experience good fortune, might have great wealth, great intellect and wisdom, great talents and so on. In other words, the person would be very capable and fortunate. A person with a substantial amount of good karma or virtue would also have good enlightenment quality and be able to apprehend certain Divine principles since he/she is in direct contact with the true nature of the universe.

There exists a transformative relationship between the bad karma and the good karma (the black substance and the white substance). Bad karma is acquired by doing bad deeds--cursing, stealing, harming others, etc., while the white substance is attained through doing good deeds or enduring hardships. Thus through the bearing of hardships the black substance can be transformed into the white substance. Likewise, through doing bad deeds, the white substance is transformed into the bad substance. Hence, there is a principle, "doing good deeds yields good returns, doing bad deeds yields bad consequences."

A person who has a large amount of black karma would have lesser enlightenment quality, since the black substance is in opposition to the true nature of the universe. The person would be predisposed to be more selfish, less perceptive of others, less tolerant, more callous, less rational, and less able to recognize Divine truths even when they stand right in front of him/her. In fact, he/she might scoff and become visibly angry.

That is why there was a saying in the past: "When a man of great quality hears the Dao, he will practice it diligently. When a man of average quality hears the Dao, he will practice it on and off. When a man of inferior quality hears the Dao, he will laugh out loud. If he does not laugh out loud, then it is not worthy of being the True Dao."

While the term bad karma, is originally a term associated with various schools of Buddhism, I believe the term "sin" or "sinful karma" is the relevant term from a Christian perspective.

The above is just my personal understanding through years of study and practice, most notably through the study of Falun Dafa over the past nine years.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
If some of the "darker" abilities arise from negative Karma, do the positive ones arise from "good" karma?


Also, I would not say that "darker abilities arise from negative karma." Someone with genuine abilities would be able to accomplish the same things (or more) than someone who uses black karma to strengthen his/her abilities. The person with genuine abilities is no doubt more capable and accomplished than the other. It is just that he/she may not use or display these abilities, and certainly not for the purpose of superficial worldly gain or to do bad deeds.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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Hello HaveYouConsidered...

I myself was wondering about people developing abilities and the like and I have also read through the Zuahn Falun (9 Lecutures) and have tried the Meditation on a wonderful Sunny Sunday Morning...

I myself have one side of the Family (Mother's) that have had various abilities one could see Auras, another could see one of her past lives, another could bend a spoon by rubbing between two fingers, communication with entities and have them angrily fling objects across the room, intermittent views into the future and almost all are very sensitive to others thoughts and feelings...and none have ever meditated....

I am curious, in all of your 9 years of development via the Zhuan Falun...have you developed any further than when you first started?

Thanks.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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In my own personal understanding basically Supernormal,Psi,occult abilities are those abilities which have been pretty much been laid dormant by our own lack of using them due to our beliefs that we have chosen to beleive due in part to our collective understanding of Society and its idea of trying to limiting some aspects to our selfs due to fear.
These Psi abilities are inherent in us and at times they do come to the surface and forefont of our capabilties when the need arises.ie; in situations of extreme physical stress and danger.Ffor instance the pregant mother involved in a car accident and finds that the 4500 pound vehicle she was driving is now on top of her at which moment she finds superhuman strength in that instant and lifts it off herself in deliberate determined intent.
These Psi abilities are pretty much the 11-100% we fail to use of our own Brain.
Like any muscle the more you use it the better it adapts and becomes efficient to the circumstances at hand.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by qbik2008
Hello HaveYouConsidered...

I myself was wondering about people developing abilities and the like and I have also read through the Zuahn Falun (9 Lecutures) and have tried the Meditation on a wonderful Sunny Sunday Morning...

I myself have one side of the Family (Mother's) that have had various abilities one could see Auras, another could see one of her past lives, another could bend a spoon by rubbing between two fingers, communication with entities and have them angrily fling objects across the room, intermittent views into the future and almost all are very sensitive to others thoughts and feelings...and none have ever meditated....

I am curious, in all of your 9 years of development via the Zhuan Falun...have you developed any further than when you first started?

Thanks.



Pleased to meet you. In reading Zhuan Falun, you will recall that the Teacher explains the relationship between energy potency and supernormal abilities (Third Lecture). The main focus of cultivation practice, whether in Falun Dafa or in another upright school of practice, is to improve ones character (xinxing) and thereby raise one's level. This is the key to improving energy potency and one's attainment. Bodily transformations and progress towards Enlightenment rely upon improving character (xinxing). Again, supernormal abilities are byproducts in the cultivation practice, but the Teacher will allow the practitioner to experience some of them or even use them (assuming the practitioner can handle him/herself) along the way. My understanding is that this helps the practitioner gain confidence in his practice. Still, the practitioner is giving up ordinary attachments, and, as the Teacher says, "Cultivation is up to oneself, while the transformation of energy (gong) is up to the Master."

There are two major levels of cultivation practice (In Triple World and Beyond Triple World), and each would bring about different abilities. While cultivating in In-Triple-World Fa (Law), the abilities are developed within the flesh body and they become antiquated or meaningless when one breaks through to Beyond Triple World Fa.

Before practicing Falun Dafa, I had some experiences, had on a few sparse occasions seen other dimensions, could see simple auras, had some clairaudience, had the ability to treat illnesses using cultivation energy I had before (although these were used up quite quickly), and otherwise had some spiritual experiences. Beyond this, I would not say that I had or used supernormal abilities often. Since I began practicing Falun Dafa, I would say that my ability to see was actually a bit less, since the Teacher was arranging my cultivation this way, and on certain occasions I would see things when something important was being shown to me--meaning I am supposed to enlighten to something in such an instance. There are other forms of "seeing," however, that are not really visual per se. For example, the Teacher mentions "Wisdom Eyesight" and "Fa Eyesight," which to my understanding are more related to having deeper or more profound wisdom and understanding rather than seeing visual images or scenes.

If you are asking if Falun Dafa was beneficial to making progress, I can say absolutely yes. Falun Dafa is real, and I've studied it every day for the past nine years. It has been incomparable in my experience. The emergence of Falun Dafa and the brutal persecution that practitioners have faced and overcome in China--neither are coincidences. It is really phenomenal. That's all I can say. I'm happy to discuss it further.

Try doing all five exercises two or three days in a row. Try reading the book again. I bet you can answer your own questions.

Also, it sounds like your mother has had some unique experiences. As long as she doesn't accept things from those extra-dimensional entities, they should not be able to bother her.



[edit on 19-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]

[edit on 19-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by Epsillion70
In my own personal understanding basically Supernormal,Psi,occult abilities are those abilities which have been pretty much been laid dormant by our own lack of using them due to our beliefs that we have chosen to beleive due in part to our collective understanding of Society and its idea of trying to limiting some aspects to our selfs due to fear.
These Psi abilities are inherent in us and at times they do come to the surface and forefont of our capabilties when the need arises.ie; in situations of extreme physical stress and danger.Ffor instance the pregant mother involved in a car accident and finds that the 4500 pound vehicle she was driving is now on top of her at which moment she finds superhuman strength in that instant and lifts it off herself in deliberate determined intent.
These Psi abilities are pretty much the 11-100% we fail to use of our own Brain.
Like any muscle the more you use it the better it adapts and becomes efficient to the circumstances at hand.


I agree with what you say, that human beings naturally have inborn abilities, some of which are called "supernormal" because people have simply lost the ability or inclination to use them. In some of the indigenous cultures, perhaps in Australia but certainly the Maori in New Zealand, inborn abilities are more common and accepted. Some may have more or greater abilities than others, but yes I think people are trained not to use them or give credence to them when they have an experience. Modern science is very focused on what is "tangible and real" and doesn't have much explanation for some things. So these abilities are relegated to the realm of metaphysics or mysticism.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by HaveYouConsidered?

Before practicing Falun Dafa, I had some experiences, had on a few sparse occasions seen other dimensions, could see simple auras, had some clairaudience, had the ability to treat illnesses using cultivation energy I had before (although these were used up quite quickly), and otherwise had some spiritual experiences.



Please to meet you as well,

From what I have read and understand from various sources concerning other dimensions...I understand that there are 7 Dimensions and we...in the "Physical Dimension"...are in the "Third"...

I can't recall exactly...but from what I have read in Zhuan Falun...I believe it was said, that the numbers of Dimensions were countless...???

As you mentioned above about briefly seeing/experiencing other dimensions...I am curious as to what you "Saw" in those dimensions and if you can actually explain it in words...?????

Thanks.

[edit on 19-7-2008



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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Hello,

Some interesting ideas, that I will likely comment on later. I will say that I haven't seen some of the terminology you use, used in such a way.

Supernormal or supernatural abilities, being by your definition, abilities possessed within the self.

Occult abilities, by your definition, being abilities that one must use some external source to manipulate, it seems you're opposed to this method.

Correct me if I am mistaken with your definitions.

In my experience, "supernormal" abilities can to some agree or another be developed when engaging in spiritual practice and contemplation. It often takes many many hours, at times months and years to acquire appreciable degrees of power. These powers will often flee from you if you use them for your own gain, as opposed to the benefit of others.

"Occult" abilities, such as one might find when working with nature, or other such things, is often indicated as the more bleak of the two, especially in Western philosophy. However, when one on the spiritual path lacks the absolute pure spiritual experience of knowing that these external energies and forces are in fact, them self, they need to communicate with these entities in order to cause desired results. Once one has transcended to that level(believe me, I am no where near there), then they no longer have to ask outside forces for assistance, as then they know at the core of their being that they are in fact those outside forces.

However, I find that, and have been told that, outside forces ie spirits of various nature have certain disdain for arrogance, and other such personal qualities, appreciating others qualities, such as strength, compassion, humility, harmony, justice, etc.

If external forces will resist you, particularly when you do not have the correct character, I do not see this as negative.

Now, as far as things dark go, yes, there are many practices for causing harm, where upon a person may draw on a thought form egregore or spiritual collective of like minded entities to assist them in their works. However, I have never heard of people wanting to amass "black karma" or that this is an energy that exists in another dimension.

To my understanding, the physical world is the most dense. Matter. Above Matter exists Energy, at a higher vibration. Matter is composed of Energy, and it exists in the same place as matter, only at a higher vibration. Above energy exists the the mind substance which composes energy at a yet more subtle frequency. Above the mind exists Spirit, the highest point at which individuality exists. It is the most subtle force. Above the spirit, individuality vanishes into the realm of the divine.

Any work requires several things in order to use spiritual means to bring manifestation in physical reality.

It needs bold physical action that will take you in the direction you wish. It needs dee breathing which controls and directs the flow of energy in a way harmonious with what you are trying to accomplish. It needs a matching mental picture that is as vivid as possible. To influence the level of Spirit we need to have positive spiritual qualities that I call virtues, which I talk about at great length in my own threads. Then you work to influence other people/forces to help you accomplish this goal. Whatever you are trying to do, you need assistance. Whether you need the help of a wrench to turn a bolt, or you need spiritual inspiration, or even directions to a job interview, you need outside resources.

This has been my interpretation of the whole thing. Now whether or not one uses this process to influence things for the positive or negative, this is another story. But I will say this, if you wish the be effective in manifesting some sort of results in THIS world, you will need to follow a formula that continues the 5 parts I listed for you. But in doing harm, your power to cause manifestation will be somewhat limited, because you are creating a disharmony with the universe, and trying to communicate with the universe when there is a problem with communication there is sometimes a problem.

That said, one may cause hurt with words, a physical blow, an ill intended scowl, etc.

I hope I did not completely misunderstand your words before I responded. If so I apologize.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by qbik2008

From what I have read and understand from various sources concerning other dimensions...I understand that there are 7 Dimensions and we...in the "Physical Dimension"...are in the "Third"...

I can't recall exactly...but from what I have read in Zhuan Falun...I believe it was said, that the numbers of Dimensions were countless...???

[edit on 19-7-2008


Human beings do exist in multiple dimensions simultaneously, but the main spirit and main consciousness are in this present dimension. The Teacher mentioned that these dimensions "exist at the same time and the same place." Regarding seven dimensions, I'm trying to think what you might be referring to. If the "fourth" dimension often referred to is related to time, it can be said that the physical space that we live in certainly has the concept of time. If you're referring to the six-fold path of transmigration mentioned in Buddhism, those refer to states of beings irrespective of their dimension (e.g., god, demi-god, human, animal, ghost, demon, yet all of whom exist within what Buddhists call the "Three Realms"). Human beings' main bodies are characterized as having a layer of surface particles, flesh cells that are composed of molecules. The dimension we live in is delimited by molecules at the microcosmic level and celestial bodies at the macro-cosmic level. However, yes, Teacher Li tells us that there are virtually countless levels and dimensions within and composing galaxies, universes and layers of cosmic bodies. These dimensions have different characteristics.


Originally posted by qbik2008

As you mentioned above about briefly seeing/experiencing other dimensions...I am curious as to what you "Saw" in those dimensions and if you can actually explain it in words...?????

[edit on 19-7-2008


I have at a few certain times seen actual beings from other dimensions, presumably when I was being shown something relevant to me. I saw these things while completely awake and conscious. One or more of these beings I would describe as Divine and others not so much. I did not see actual 'places' in other dimensions, and even if I did, remember that what I would have seen would be a manifestation of my own level, rather than the objective truth at a higher level. To be able to see objects or beings in other dimensions one's Tianmu ("Celestial Eye") would need to be open and developed. This refers to the pineal system within the human body that can look at these phenomena directly rather than by way of our normal flesh eyes. If I see things visually, then yes they can be described with words.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreySwordsman
Hello,

Some interesting ideas, that I will likely comment on later. I will say that I haven't seen some of the terminology you use, used in such a way.

Supernormal or supernatural abilities, being by your definition, abilities possessed within the self.

Occult abilities, by your definition, being abilities that one must use some external source to manipulate, it seems you're opposed to this method.

Correct me if I am mistaken with your definitions.



Yes, I am trying to draw this distinction between abilities developed by the individual and abilities channeled or otherwise originating from an external being.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreySwordsman

In my experience, "supernormal" abilities can to some agree or another be developed when engaging in spiritual practice and contemplation. It often takes many many hours, at times months and years to acquire appreciable degrees of power. These powers will often flee from you if you use them for your own gain, as opposed to the benefit of others.

"Occult" abilities, such as one might find when working with nature, or other such things, is often indicated as the more bleak of the two, especially in Western philosophy. However, when one on the spiritual path lacks the absolute pure spiritual experience of knowing that these external energies and forces are in fact, them self, they need to communicate with these entities in order to cause desired results. Once one has transcended to that level(believe me, I am no where near there), then they no longer have to ask outside forces for assistance, as then they know at the core of their being that they are in fact those outside forces.



A couple of comments here:

To me, what nature is is an extremely profound and virtually boundless subject in and of itself. If one is embarking upon a spiritual path sincerely, it is possible that another being such as a Divine being may be assisting, guiding and protecting the person whether or not he/she is even aware of it. The person engaged in this spiritual development may perceive that "nature" is guiding him or her. As one improves his or her virtuous nature (or character) he/she may have deeper spiritual experiences, depending on his/her path. His or her body may undergo some changes and some inborn abilities may emerge or even develop anew. Whether or not this is true, I think one is bound to gain wisdom and understanding as one quiets one's mind, lets go of ordinary attachments and mentalities, and lives in harmony with Divine nature, the Dao, or however this is described.

I would not agree with you that "entities" are necessarily part of one's self, although one's perception of them, of life and of the universe would be a reflection of one's own self. I hope this makes some sense. While we may share or live in assimilation with a Divine universe and our consciousness maybe opened up, profound and expansive...and while Life's Truth may reside or reflect within us in numerous ways, it does not mean that we are necessarily one and the same. For example, imagine droplets of water or dew resting on leaves of grass. Reflected in each water droplet, no matter how small, is the complete image of the sky, clouds, sun, surrounding trees, etc. Within each droplet of water are particles of Life Itself. However, we can still say that the individual droplets are different from one another, at least separated by their positions. So, while we may share a common existence with All Things and indeed we ourselves are part of All Things, there are, in fact, beings who are outside of ourselves, beyond our range of knowledge or beyond our realm of awareness.

We encounter all kinds of beings large and small, visible and invisible, and they may be assisting us, or approaching us for some other reason, or have nothing to do with us. In genuine spiritual practice, I do believe that one must make progress oneself. And as for coming into contact with other beings, there are actually complex karmic relationships that are involved and that need to be resolved in one way or another. Entities that mean to harm a person may be seeking recompense for some karmic debt that was owed to it in the past. Without the guidance of a genuine cultivation way and a true teacher, I do not believe that a person would advance beyond a certain point in practice.

* * *

I hope you don't mind my going through your post in pieces. There is a lot of content here, and my reply also doesn't fit within the space requirements.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreySwordsman

However, I find that, and have been told that, outside forces ie spirits of various nature have certain disdain for arrogance, and other such personal qualities, appreciating others qualities, such as strength, compassion, humility, harmony, justice, etc.

If external forces will resist you, particularly when you do not have the correct character, I do not see this as negative.



I find this to be correct. The universe itself has characteristics that restrict and restrain negative or evil factors. Numerous entities at various levels preserve this order in the universe. 'External forces' that restrain evil are not negative.


Originally posted by TheGreySwordsman

Now, as far as things dark go, yes, there are many practices for causing harm, where upon a person may draw on a thought form egregore or spiritual collective of like minded entities to assist them in their works. However, I have never heard of people wanting to amass "black karma" or that this is an energy that exists in another dimension.



People's thoughts actually have a form of material existence. There has been a long-standing debate in fields of science and philosophy as to the relationship between mind and matter. Many people now recognize that mind and matter are one and the same. Energy matter and material things have their characteristics and actually have a form of consciousness. (I think some scientists on the edge of quantum physics have discovered this.) Thoughts or other emanations of mind have actual material substance. That is to say, your thoughts are alive. When people have bad or negative thoughts, they create a black material substance in an adjacent dimension, which is commonly called bad karma or black karma.

A person's thoughts or mind intent is incapable of doing anything in and of itself. However, whatever abilities the person possesses will in fact be at the command of the person's thoughts. One's inborn abilities can also be strengthened by this black karma. This is different from abilities being substantiated by one's cultivation energy potency through positive spiritual practice. But even in daily life now, it's not uncommon to see an athlete cursing up a storm in an effort to "pump himself up," basically build up his black karma and strengthen his abilities temporarily. (Athletes like that usually hit a wall in their careers though.)

Many people or beings together can create an energy field that can be positive or evil. I am not familiar with your term 'egregore,' but assume it is similar to a negative or evil energy field. An evil energy field can affect the people or beings in its midst and possibly serve to strengthen the negative abilities of individuals who are attuned to it.

No one "wants" to amass black karma. In the course of this black karma balancing out the person will endure suffering and hardships. If people believed there were real and painful consequences for committing evil deeds, they would commit markedly fewer evil deeds.



[edit on 19-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreySwordsman

To my understanding, the physical world is the most dense. Matter. Above Matter exists Energy, at a higher vibration. Matter is composed of Energy, and it exists in the same place as matter, only at a higher vibration. Above energy exists the the mind substance which composes energy at a yet more subtle frequency. Above the mind exists Spirit, the highest point at which individuality exists. It is the most subtle force. Above the spirit, individuality vanishes into the realm of the divine.



The physical world we live in can be considered one of the most materially laden and the beings of our world are the most materially constrained. However, regarding the density of energy matter, things in dimensions more microcosmic than ours--that is, things that are composed of smaller and more refined particles--are actually more dense. Energy matter becomes more dense and stores more energy the smaller the particles. For example, from the view of atomic physics, to split an atom (creating nuclear fission) requires a tremendously heavy mass and high-speed collision, and the energy released in a nuclear explosion is tremendous.


Originally posted by TheGreySwordsman

Any work requires several things in order to use spiritual means to bring manifestation in physical reality.

It needs bold physical action that will take you in the direction you wish. It needs deep breathing which controls and directs the flow of energy in a way harmonious with what you are trying to accomplish. It needs a matching mental picture that is as vivid as possible. To influence the level of Spirit we need to have positive spiritual qualities that I call virtues, which I talk about at great length in my own threads. Then you work to influence other people/forces to help you accomplish this goal. Whatever you are trying to do, you need assistance. Whether you need the help of a wrench to turn a bolt, or you need spiritual inspiration, or even directions to a job interview, you need outside resources.



Since I have already made a reference to Falun Dafa, I think I can just quote Teacher Li Hongzhi to address your comment. This is an excerpt from the article, "What are Supernormal Abilities?":

"Supernormal abilities are also called divine powers. Contemporary people call them extraordinary abilities. Supernormal abilities are in fact beings’ innate abilities. The higher a being’s level, the more fully his innate abilities can take effect; conversely, the lower a being’s level, the harder it is for his innate abilities to take effect, or to take full effect. The fundamental reason is that in this cosmos, from the highest level to the lowest level, the lower it gets, the higher the proportion of matter beings and everything in their particular realms have, the larger the particles’ grains are, and the more weight beings carry—the lower it gets, the more the beings’ innate abilities (supernormal abilities) are restrained by matter itself, and the more heavy this restraint, the less effective the abilities are. This is why the lower the level, the lesser the abilities. When it gets to the human dimension, all the innate abilities of beings are already covered up, their innate abilities (supernormal abilities) cannot work. So if humans do something or want to get something, they have to rely solely on working their matter-comprised bodies in order to get what they want. Man cannot see the true situation of the cosmos because he is completely buried in matter. That is why it’s said that the human dimension is one of delusion. "

In this thread, I have been sharing my own understanding, but given the opportunity, I will always defer to Teacher Li on these questions.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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Hello HaveYouConsidered....

I am wondering how The Children Of The Law Of One ties into all of this...

We are all ONE (within the universal consciousness/GOD(s) if you will)...

Is destroying the Separate Selfish Self...part of xingxing....???

Do you walk with Death as your companion at all times?

For Example:
1) If you were going to die in five minutes, is the way you have left things with the people in your life, how you want to leave them?

2) Are the last things you said, what you want to have left said?

3) Have you left anything unsaid that you would have wanted to say before you’re gone for good?

4) With the perspective of knowing that you are going to die at any minute,
how important to you is that issue of _______ that really irritated you (about living with so and so, or what so and so does, or the things you don’t like about how or where you must live, etc., etc.,).

5) Is the terrible argument you had about_________really important?

6) Have you done what you wanted to, or needed to do, with your life?

7) What is the legacy you are leaving? Are your last actions the actions you
would want to be your last?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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Comments below...


Originally posted by qbik2008
Hello HaveYouConsidered....

I am wondering how The Children Of The Law Of One ties into all of this...

We are all ONE (within the universal consciousness/GOD(s) if you will)...



I am not familiar with "The Children Of the Law Of One" you mention. I touched upon the idea of us being One and universal consciousness above with the description of self and others (water droplets being a loose metaphor). My understanding is that the universe is profound and is alive with consciousness and myriad forms and expressions of life. We are part of that manifestation, share a common home and each assimilate to that profound and intelligent universe. However, I do not see us as all being one being. We could conceivably be called particles of the universe ourselves.


Originally posted by qbik2008

Is destroying the Separate Selfish Self...part of xingxing....???



I can answer this. Historically, practices of the Dao School and Buddha School did have this principle, which can be described as "The lower self dies, while the higher self predominates." However, this "lower self" I mention here is actually called your main consciousness. Cultivators in the past would suppress their main consciousness and cultivate what is called a para-spirit, or assistant consciousness that is also part of their being, but still a separate entity nonetheless. So there would be monks who enter a trance-like state when they meditate, who would practice while sleeping, or who would even suppress the main consciousness by drinking alcohol. It's true that this lower self, or main spirit, is lost in the delusion of the human world and has all kinds of worldly, carnal attachments and desires. The practice of Falun Dafa actually cultivates the main consciousness primarily. The main consciousness is purified and ascends, so no it is not destroyed, abandoned or suppressed in this particular practice.

There are some practitioners, particularly students of modern zen who, in the course of recognizing and discarding notions and sentimental attachments, might say that they seek to destroy these illusions as though they are imposters to themselves and barriers to understanding Reality. So, getting rid of karma, bad habits, false notions and delusions, etc. could be considered destroying or eliminating low-level attachments (which actually do materially exist).


Originally posted by qbik2008

Do you walk with Death as your companion at all times?



If you are asking me, I would say that the issue of living or dying is not a concern. Now before you jump to conclusions about this, let me explain a few things. First, my understanding is that a human being, including the main consciousness, was actually created at a microcosmic level of the universe and doesn't really die in a permanent sense. When one lifetime is over the person's body composed of molecules and flesh cells is discarded, while at a sub-molecular level (the body composed of atoms and sub-atomic particles), the person is still alive and will likely reincarnate within the six-fold path of transmigration. For a cultivator, this is not seen as a particularly good outcome. The goal of cultivation is to transcend the Three Realms and return to the high level at which one's life was originally created.

Second, the life and fate of a being are actually arranged by higher beings--gods--based on karmic circumstances and relationships that need to be balanced, and also considering the form of the society. So one follows the course of nature in a state of wuwei, or non-intention, without pursuits.

One of Teacher Li's poems called "Non-Existence" says:

Live with no pursuit,
Die not caring about staying;
Clear out all wild thoughts,
Cultivating to a Buddha is not hard.

October 20, 1991

Note that this is not nihilism, but living in harmony with the universe and following the course of nature.



[edit on 22-7-2008 by HaveYouConsidered?]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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There is also an expression in cultivation, "Having heard the Dao in the morning. One can die in the evening," meaning if one can hear the true Dao in one's lifetime, one will not regret at the end of one's life.


Originally posted by qbik2008

Do you walk with Death as your companion at all times?

For Example:
1) If you were going to die in five minutes, is the way you have left things with the people in your life, how you want to leave them?

2) Are the last things you said, what you want to have left said?

3) Have you left anything unsaid that you would have wanted to say before you’re gone for good?

4) With the perspective of knowing that you are going to die at any minute,
how important to you is that issue of _______ that really irritated you (about living with so and so, or what so and so does, or the things you don’t like about how or where you must live, etc., etc.,).

5) Is the terrible argument you had about_________really important?

6) Have you done what you wanted to, or needed to do, with your life?

7) What is the legacy you are leaving? Are your last actions the actions you
would want to be your last?


I think one should try to be a good person, decide what the goal of one's life is, and not be confused or manipulated by other factors.



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by qbik2008
Hello HaveYouConsidered....

I am wondering how The Children Of The Law Of One ties into all of this...

We are all ONE (within the universal consciousness/GOD(s) if you will)...

Is destroying the Separate Selfish Self...part of xingxing....???

Do you walk with Death as your companion at all times?




You know I think there's something interesting here that you've said. You mention, "Do you walk with Death...?" Actually, I think Death can also be seen as a living being, a deity perhaps or a demon. Just as birth, old age, illness and death are beings that maintain the order of things. So then what is it that causes Death to come? What role does Death play in the universe? This is an interesting question.



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