WMD's were found in IRAQ.

I contend that Saddam was himself a WMD of the highest order.

*snip*

There have been more than 500 mass graves uncovered in Iraq from the Saddam Era. He and his Son's were Weapons of Mass Destruction. The US had nothing to do with this part of his nature, but what we did, did enable him.

What good could have came from leaving him where he was and in power? The same people who are constantly criticizing the West for not invading other countries under the thumb of monsters and dictators, are also the loudest about how we should have left Saddam alone. Forgive me if this logic tends to make me believe critical thinking is in short supply.

This silly argument of WMD or no WMD is just that; SILLY! This Saddam was a Monster with plans of dominating the entire region, with one of the most powerful Military's on earth. He had the power and madness to disrupt the entire worlds energy supply and economies and he certainly showed the will when he entered Kuwait.

Did Bush mess up? Yes
Did that mean we should have left Saddam in place? NO!!!
Should we now back out like idiots and let another Saddam step in and take over? Hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Staff Edit - Removed Inappropriate Images From Post*

[edit on 7/18/08 by niteboy82]

Originally posted by Blaine91555


If this was the question you meant? True, but so what? Because we screwed up and created him, we should have left him in power after realizing the mistake? How logical is that I wonder? Logic tells me if we played a part in creating this monster it is our responsibility to get rid of him, as we did.

Then we come to the whole fact, that war was proper planned. The American government would then be directly responsible for the entire chaos. Bear in mind If America behaved like most nations, we wouldn't be here discussing this.

There are monsters in the Middle East that must be controlled for the sake of the whole planet.

Who are the monster's forgive me we need to be really clear as to "who" are the real monsters. I'll wait till you reply. Then I'll give my take

I pray our next President is not a wimp who bends over to placate the Liberal nut cases who live in a fantasy world where Saddam was not dangerous. Not everyone is born with the capacity for critical thinking and Party Zealots are as nutty as the Religious Zealots who control much of the Middle East.

Again like every American president, They all say they will do this and that, but in reality they will find or go into some sort of war again. War is sick business.

Should we buy our heads in the sand while these monsters who strap bombs to their own children flourish with the aid of the naive Peace-niks who think if you smell the flowers the bad man will go away?

Again that is bullcrap and biased. People over there are not strapping themselves to blow themselves up for no reason. They do that because they have no will to live. Its the most couragous act a human can do, is take your own life. The stupid media try to give deception on this ffs. The people that do blow themselvs up, are doing it to try and stop the American millitary wiping out their freedom and homes. That's 50 years of this conflict. It will continue if people like you do not realise the reality of the American policy and what it does over there.

But on a side note I agree with alot of what you said too.

reply to post by mind is the universe


So far Iraq has been allowed to keep all the oil revenue and I imagine that will continue. Some think they should help pay for the rebuilding we are doing but to date they are not or are they being asked too. The people of Iraq are benefiting from the oil the most. Without it they would have nothing. If they would just stop killing each other we would be gone and they would have a decent life, thanks to the oil.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I contend that Saddam was himself a WMD of the highest order.



There have been more than 500 mass graves uncovered in Iraq from the Saddam Era.

There will be a million more by the time your government hold up to their actions.

What good could have came from leaving him where he was and in power? The same people who are constantly criticizing the West for not invading other countries under the thumb of monsters and dictators, are also the loudest about how we should have left Saddam alone. Forgive me if this logic tends to make me believe critical thinking is in short supply.

Not the west, AMERICA. Oh and Its AMERICA that put Saddam there. YOUR MISSING THE POINT HERE. YOUR GOVERNMENT PUT HIM THERE TO DOOO ALL THESE ACTS OF MURDER. SO THEY CAN SPIN A WAR ON IRAQ NOW.

This silly argument of WMD or no WMD is just that; SILLY! This Saddam was a Monster with plans of dominating the entire region, with one of the most powerful Military's on earth. He had the power and madness to disrupt the entire worlds energy supply and economies and he certainly showed the will when he entered Kuwait.

American policy and behaviour is silly too.

Did Bush mess up? Yes
Did that mean we should have left Saddam in place? NO!!!
Should we now back out like idiots and let another Saddam step in and take over? Hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop twisting it. THEY put Saddam in there!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mind is the universe

 

So far Iraq has been allowed to keep all the oil revenue and I imagine that will continue. Some think they should help pay for the rebuilding we are doing but to date they are not or are they being asked too. The people of Iraq are benefiting from the oil the most. Without it they would have nothing. If they would just stop killing each other we would be gone and they would have a decent life, thanks to the oil.

That is soap opera to the highest degree!!!

Originally posted by DaleGribble

it dosent matter how they got them. they have them...

Dale, I am sure even you see the staggering vile hypocrisy of selling a country chemical weapons then invading them under the pretext of posing a threat for owning chemical weapons (as well as the unfounded nuclear claim). Those munitions sound hazardous to anyone attempting to even USE them against an enemy.

Which is probably why they didn't.

Stevie Wonder could see that doesn't add up..

- Lee

reply to post by Blaine91555


You keep bringing up Saddam's hobbies were deploying those shells and killing mass people. The UN gives a crap about other people? Since when?

May I remind you that a lot of other countries need liberation as well. North Korea, Sierra Leone, Sudan, Angola, Tajikistan, Albania, Haiti and etc. Why not
hope on a horse and go save those countries as well?

Saddam had WMD's I agree with you OP, but how do you define WMD's? From what I can see Israel owns weapons that can destroy half the world and what is done about it? Nothing. If they were not backed by the US security council veto power they would have been silenced long ago.


reply to post by SRTkid86


I have done my research first hand. Now, I want you to go do your own research. Do you honestly believe Iraqis thank Americans for destroying their infrastructure? If you wanted Bush out, Russia invaded and did the same thing the US is doing in Iraq would you be truly happy?

And yes you did put words in our mouths. I was born in Iraq and I visited Iraq 2 years ago. I know first hand before and after. Saddam ruled with an iron fist but that was something you had to do. Now you have terror groups running all around Iraq like wild dogs. The soldiers are all paranoid because they do not know who to trust from within their groups. Parents fear their sons and daughters might get kidnapped and taught how to fight.

I can keep going on and on. You can believe whatever you want to believe. All I am saying is ask us the Iraqi people before you say the Iraqi's enjoy our presence there.

reply to post by ice1300


If you are truly interested then here is a brief description of my background in Iraq.

What part of Iraq did you say you were from?
Basra

How long did you live there?
10 Years

Were you born there?
Yes

What was your job while you were there?
I was too young to have a job. I left Iraq when I was 10. We left after the US invaded Iraq

Do you really truly believe that Iraq was better off with Sadam than now?
Simply yes. You never had to watch over your shoulder, you had running water, electricity, food was a little pricey because of the sanctions. All in all it was much better then when I went to visit 2 years ago.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mind is the universe

 

So far Iraq has been allowed to keep all the oil revenue and I imagine that will continue. Some think they should help pay for the rebuilding we are doing but to date they are not or are they being asked too. The people of Iraq are benefiting from the oil the most. Without it they would have nothing. If they would just stop killing each other we would be gone and they would have a decent life, thanks to the oil.

You are right all the oil money right?

After the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the United States took control of all of the Iraqi government’s bank accounts, including the income from oil sales. The United Nations approved the financial takeover, and President Bush vowed to spend Iraq’s money wisely. But now critics are raising serious questions about how well the United States handled billions of dollars in Iraqi oil funds.
MSNBC

Oil companies are happy Saddam fell. Now they can go reign in Iraq after 35 years of exile. The least the US should have done is respect what Saddam did to those companies and keep them out. Now the companies will undercut Iraq and oversell to the American public.

Yup, you should be proud to purchase gas from these honest oil companies.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by Equinox99]

Originally posted by mind is the universe
Then we come to the whole fact, that war was proper planned. The American government would then be directly responsible for the entire chaos. Bear in mind If America behaved like most nations, we wouldn't be here discussing this.

I don't understand. Do you mean we should have left Saddam in place? Should we have let him invade Saudi Arabia the first time. You do know there never was a second war. Saddam violated the terms of cease fire many times and the first war after he invaded Kuwait continued through the Clinton Administration through to the Bush Administration. The second war nonsense was an election year pile of political spin (lies).

You rightly say we played a part in causing this, but I don't see how leaving him in place would have been better. Should we have let him invade Saudi Arabia at the beginning? He made no secret of it.

Who are the monster's forgive me we need to be really clear as to "who" are the real monsters. I'll wait till you reply. Then I'll give my take

Islamic Extremists, who are butchering Muslims daily and have made it clear they wish to rid the world of anyone who does not join with them. I think the Muslims would consider them monsters also. Sooner or later, they will be bring their insanity to the rest of the world if left uncontrolled.

They all say they will do this and that, but in reality they will find or go into some sort of war again. War is sick business.

I can't entirely argue with that. Some wars have been justified however. Negotiating only works with rational people. How do you negotiate with people who blow up their neighbors while they are shopping or driving down the road?

Again that is bullcrap and biased. People over there are not strapping themselves to blow themselves up for no reason. They do that because they have no will to live. Its the most couragous act a human can do, is take your own life. The stupid media try to give deception on this ffs. The people that do blow themselvs up, are doing it to try and stop the American millitary wiping out their freedom and homes. That's 50 years of this conflict. It will continue if people like you do not realise the reality of the American policy and what it does over there.

But on a side note I agree with alot of what you said too.

Interesting how you ignored the fact I was talking about what they do to each other. They would be killing each other if no American were anywhere in the Middle East. Pick up a history book sometime. They have been butchering each other for centuries, nonstop. Blowing up a market full of nothing but other Muslims is not fighting against Americans. I'm the one who is biased?

If you were a Catholic who blew up one of your Protestant neighbors, it would be the exact same thing. Would I be wrong to say that is wrong as well?

If you let your hatred of Americans cloud your judgement to the point you actually support these murderous lunatics, you leave the door wide open for them to move into your neighborhood next.

For a moment, lay your hatred of Americans asside and logically take a look at these Extremists and the dangers they present to the world. Remember they are no longer armed with knives and swords and some may well have nuclear weapons already.

reply to post by Equinox99


MSNBC

The oil companies buy the oil. The money now goes to the Iraqi's elected government who controls the industry currently in Iraq. There was a time before the government was elected by an incredible 85% turnout of the electorate, that the money had to be controlled by someone. The rebuilding going on now is on the American dime and the Iraqi Government is the recipient of the oil revenue. They negotiate their compensation now themselves.

Are the oil companies dirty? Yes they are. Will they profit? Yes they will. Would they have prospered the same had the war never happened? Yes. Does the world need oil to feed itself and power industry? Yes. Would billions die if the oil flow were to stop? Yes they would. Should we just back out of the Middle East and let billions starve and entire nations economies be destroyed? I'll let you give your opinion on that so I know where you are coming from. Do you want to see the world go back to the Dark Ages?

Originally posted by Equinox99

May I remind you that a lot of other countries need liberation as well. North Korea, Sierra Leone, Sudan, Angola, Tajikistan, Albania, Haiti and etc. Why not
hope on a horse and go save those countries as well?

You bring up a good point. Why does the rest of the world do nothing. Why do the Africans refuse to lift a finger to help their own. Why do the Middle Easterners allow radicals to control them. Why did the people of Haiti not lift a finger after Clinton bailed them out of a mess.

Thanks for making one of my points for me. Everyone hates Americans, but when things go wrong and we don't act, we get the blame too.

You picked an interesting list of countries, in that we had nothing to do with the problems they are having. Perhaps the rest of the world should stop hiding and get off their collective butts and do something about these messes themselves. Nobody wants us around, but nobody does anything themselves. Hypocrisy of the highest order.

By the way, the diplomacy appears to have worked in North Korea. The US did what you wanted and you still criticize.

How about we let Canada pay for and bail out the African countries and give your lives to help them?



[edit on 7/18/2008 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by Blaine91555


I don't understand. Do you mean we should have left Saddam in place? Should we have let him invade Saudi Arabia the first time. You do know there never was a second war. Saddam violated the terms of cease fire many times and the first war after he invaded Kuwait continued through the Clinton Administration through to the Bush Administration. The second war nonsense was an election year pile of political spin (lies).

While you say all that, did it ever dawn on that you woulnd't of need to say all that, If the American Governments didn't put a dictator there in the beginning. IF they didn't, there would be no war, no overthrowing no killings, and us to having t waste time here talking about, how absurd and wrong it is. Do you not get how retarded it is?

It's like putting a child into a cage of tigers, and then going into save the kid, which is utterly stupid to put the kid in their in the first place. Are you able to put the blocks together. It's really straightforward that this war was a setup.

You rightly say we played a part in causing this, but I don't see how leaving him in place would have been better. Should we have let him invade Saudi Arabia at the beginning? He made no secret of it/

Well your government shouldn't of put him in there, I REPEAT.


""Who are the monster's forgive me we need to be really clear as to "who" are the real monsters. I'll wait till you reply. Then I'll give my take

""

Islamic Extremists, who are butchering Muslims daily and have made it clear they wish to rid the world of anyone who does not join with them. I think the Muslims would consider them monsters also. Sooner or later, they will be bring their insanity to the rest of the world if left uncontrolled.

That bullcrap. lol. That is not true. The people that blow themselves up, because they are so angry with what the American invasions over the last 50years, that to the point they are killing themselves as a means to try stop them. They cannot defend themselves.

I can't entirely argue with that. Some wars have been justified however. Negotiating only works with rational people.

Wrong, no war is justified. Wars today are engineered. Ward today are about making money. War does not create peace. It never ever did. I live in Ireland where civil war has raged for centuries, bitterness that run in bloodlines. War did not work it never had, it did not create it never will create peace.

Learning to take responsibilty of your actions, deal with conflict by been respectful to your own, then to mov on and let go. Been diplomatic and respectful is how you begin to create peace. Harmony comes when you learn to let go the past and look to the future vision of peace.

Not ranting and raging like George Bush and reacting and retaliating like America does in EVERY conflict on somebody else's soil. Behaving like insane power puffing infected chronic mad men, going around spreading fear and lies and giving the message out, that war is the only answer to peace. What planets do some people from America come from, or anyone that agrees with this behaviour!!

Interesting how you ignored the fact I was talking about what they do to each other. They would be killing each other if no American were anywhere in the Middle East.

Sucide bombing is a recent phenomeon in the middle east, most ironic really, since its really only started since America has invaded the lands. IRONIC.

If you let your hatred of Americans cloud your judgement to the point you actually support these murderous lunatics, you leave the door wide open for them to move into your neighborhood next.

The American government are muderous lunatics.

For a moment, lay your hatred of Americans asside and logically take a look at these Extremists and the dangers they present to the world. Remember they are no longer armed with knives and swords and some may well have nuclear weapons already.

So far the majority of the world think America is and has been the most violent and dangerous nation of recent times. but hey, turn off the T.V now and look around you.
America has nuclear weapons and have used them. Which country is the number one seller of arms and weapons care to answer that, while you elaborate on bull.




[edit on 18-7-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mind is the universe

 

Did the hundreds of thousands they killed and tortured deserve what happened to them? How would you have removed him if you had to decide?

Satellite tracking. Sniper rifle.

I'm 100% sure between the SAS and the American special forces, a shot could be fired while Saddam was splashing around in the swimming pool of one of his palaces.


Assassination is the method used when a situation has to be handled quickly and efficiently. This method was not desired. What was desired however, was that an extremely long and expensive war be fought. War pair for by YOUR taxdollars, which went into the pockets of the arms companies, those guys who are so buddy buddy with your hawks in Washington.

And right now, MORE of your taxdollars are being paid to American construction companies to rebuild Iraq! They destroy as much of it as possible so there is a huge amount of infrastructure repair needed. This is why wars are fought! Your government's war policy is dictated to them by the huge arms and construction industries.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by unnamedninja]

reply to post by mind is the universe


Your biases and hatred have so consumed you it is not possible to have a rational discussion about this with you.

I am talking about Islamic Radicals who are killing other Muslims. That has zero to do with Americans. No matter how you try to defend their actions, I will never say what they are doing is either sane or OK.

My response to you is; why are you defending Muslims who blow up other Muslims. Do you think that is rational behavior? When a Muslim places a bomb in a car and blows it up in the middle of women and children, who are also ALL MUSLIMS, while they are shopping in a marketplace, exactly what has that to do with Americans who are not even around or involved? If you think that is OK or a good thing, you scare me.

Sorry, I know the thread is not about this. I'll stop and let the thread get back to WMD's.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mind is the universe

 

Your biases and hatred have so consumed you it is not possible to have a rational discussion about this with you.

I am talking about Islamic Radicals who are killing other Muslims. That has zero to do with Americans. No matter how you try to defend their actions, I will never say what they are doing is either sane or OK.

My response to you is; why are you defending Muslims who blow up other Muslims. Do you think that is rational behavior? When a Muslim places a bomb in a car and blows it up in the middle of women and children, who are also ALL MUSLIMS, while they are shopping in a marketplace, exactly what has that to do with Americans who are not even around or involved? If you think that is OK or a good thing, you scare me.

Sorry, I know the thread is not about this. I'll stop and let the thread get back to WMD's.

I dont have hatred or biased views

I asked you, why does the American government sell arms to all these dictators you are bitching about or all these so called radicals etc? I asked why does the American government go to wars all the time. I asked you why did the government give power and weapons to Saddam in the first place. Why do the American government have the right to invade Iraq and take it over? Why is this behaviour acceptable.

You cannot answer any of them. Instead you put your focus on blaming other people.

Finally if the American Government would stop behaving demonic and giving terrorist's weapons. If they stop creating these wars and stop killing people for the profits.


Then I would be delighted, The world would be delighted. The fact is the Elites are controlling the world with this satanic behaviour, you spend your time twisting and blaming other's for not agreeing with this. You spend the latter half on your time nit picking on small details, that is not the core issue here. The core issue here is the leaders of your country creating the division and conflicts amongst us all. Shame on you, tbh.

Please don't twist things around, that was very dangerous and decieving. Don't make false accusations about me too, and I agree let's not get personal and stick to the topic.
I did not attack the American people. So be careful how you choose your words in future. Not at all impressed by your behaviour.

Just letting everyone be aware of your manipulation

[edit on 18-7-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by mind is the universe

I dont have hatred or biased views

I asked you, why does the American government sell arms to all these dictators you are bitching about? I asked why does the American government go to wars all the time. I asked you why did the government give power and weapons to Saddam in the first place.

Because "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". They went to war with Iran, and we backed Iraq.

If you do a bit of research, you'd realize that the US isn't the only country selling weapons. Why do you think the weapon of choice to so many countries is the AK? Last time I checked, the AK was made in Russia. I don't think they were giving them away for free.

Chinese weapons are in the Sudan. The French sell weapons to everyone and their brothers.

of course they found WMDs the US sold them to iraq years ago the reason they have not made a big deal about finding them is they were MADE IN THE USA and sold bydonald rumsfeild to iraq look it up

Originally posted by mind is the universe
Wrong, no war is justified. Wars today are engineered. Ward today are about making money. War does not create peace. It never ever did. I live in Ireland where civil war has raged for centuries, bitterness that run in bloodlines. War did not work it never had, it did not create it never will create peace.

Really? Tell that to the people of France, etc, after the Allies invaded Europe after being under Nazi control for five years. I bet they'd disagree with you on that one.

Or the people of Kuwait in the First Gulf War. It wasn't "Party Time, Middle Eastern Style" while the Iraqis were occupying their country.

Originally posted by mind is the universeSucide bombing is a recent phenomeon in the middle east, most ironic really, since its really only started since America has invaded the lands. IRONIC.

Check again. They were using suicide bombers in the Lebanese Civil War in 1981, before they bombed the Marine Barracks.

reply to post by DaleGribble


The War was never about WMD's, AL Qaeda or Terrorism.

The CIA recruited, trained and supplied Al Qaeda years ago!

9/11 was an obvious lie to start a war and for reasons that still have not been de-classified.

(The war in Iraq was for more than just oil and I believe it has to do with ancient sumeria and the end time prophecies.)

George W. Bush is a great actor on TV.

The entire interview was pre-staged I'm sure.

WAKE UP!

Sorry, had to butt in.

Satellite tracking. Sniper rifle.

I'm 100% sure between the SAS and the American special forces, a shot could be fired while Saddam was splashing around in the swimming pool of one of his palaces.

Pretty sure assassination is an act of war. And the man's assassination would only lead to one of his far more insane sons taking the reigns. And with the U.S. being an ocean away, who would Iraq attack? Israel, maybe. Perhaps take out the Strait. UAE? Qatar? Who knows. The fact is the world isn't that simple - This isn't a video-game where the death of one character wins the level and peace and butterflies reign supreme.

So far the majority of the world think America is and has been the most violent and dangerous nation of recent times. but hey, turn off the T.V now and look around you.
America has nuclear weapons and have used them. Which country is the number one seller of arms and weapons

care to answer that, while you elaborate on bull.

This was pretty good, as well.
i. Can you describe to me one nation's people which unanimously consider America the most violent nation is modern times? I can name a host of African nations which foot the bill, particularly via genocide, let alone some Eastern European or Asian countries. Just because you're bias leads you to see the vocal minorities opinion of the United States and not address the others does not make it reality.

ii. Are you honestly comparing the situation of World War II, seven decades ago, to now? I think that alone says something of your argument.

iii. No question about being the number on the arms manufacturer, but let's elaborate on that.
First, America sells the most expensive weapons in the world, which certainly helps. That's like saying Armani outsells Target-brand clothing cash-wise. Of course they're not, but the price-tag certainly impacts the equation.
Furthermore, let's see who the U.S. sells to, mainly. The Netherlands? Thaiwan? Canada? Australia?
Truly, dictatorships at their worse.
I'd much rather see the United States sell PAC-3 Anti-Ballistic Missile systems than have an equal amount of money being used to purchase Russian AK-74's and RPG-7's.