The Economic Outlook - Who to Believe?, page 1/
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times
Topic started on 17-7-2008 @ 10:16 AM by Benevolent Heretic
First, there's the Bush Economy Speech on Tuesday in which Bush spoke of how there's an "upside" to this recession. Keith Olbermann's check of Bush "facts" can be seen here:

Olbermann Video

The other interesting item about this speech is that Bush aired it at exactly 10:20 Tuesday morning. The EXACT same time as Chairman of the Federal Reserve was giving HIS take on the current economy to Congress. I wonder who got more viewers?

As you might guess, Bush and Bernanke don't exactly see things the same way. This video from The Daily Show shows how different the two speeches were.

Jon Stewart's Comparison

So, what do you believe about the economy? Do you think we're going to pull out of this or is it a "psychological" thing? Are we just whining about it? Or is this really happening and what can be done about it?

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]


reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 10:58 AM by Pinktip
reply to post by Dronetek



I don't belive Bush or Bernake......their on the same team.

I believe guys like Gerald Celente

www.trendsresearch.com...


Who thinks the S*&% is going to hit the fan......



reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 12:03 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by TruthWithin
Lately, I have been reading A LOT about this and what I am noticing on a fairly grand scale is that I see a lot of "rhetoric" on the "everything is going to be fine" side, and a lot of really disturbing numbers on the "we are in for a big hit" side.


What I wonder is what we're NOT hearing about. If some of the "we are in for a big hit" info is getting to us, I wonder what the PTB have decided that we "can't handle" hearing.

Not just Freddie and Fannie. (Who names these companies?) IndyMac, too, right?

IndyMac Included in FBI Fraud Inquiry


Failed lender IndyMac Bank is among nearly two dozen banks under scrutiny by the Federal Bureau of Investigation for possible mortgage fraud, U.S. officials said.

The big Pasadena, Calif., bank was seized by regulators last week, the third-largest bank failure in U.S. history. It specialized in home loans to borrowers who lacked full documentation for their income or assets and have a higher default rate than other loans.


Trouble Persists for Some IndyMac Customers


The frustration didn't end for some IndyMac customers when they finally were able to withdraw their funds from the failing Southern California bank seized last week by federal regulators.

Some people have run into more problems when they tried to deposit IndyMac cashier checks at other banks.


It's like things are falling through the cracks to where it's getting really noticeable to the people (with their eyes open) and the government and media are saying, "It's all part of the show, people... Don't worry, be happy."

Oh yeah, Semper. Republican, Democrat, blah, blah, blah...


reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 12:06 PM by semperfortis
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



Semper. Republican, Democrat, blah, blah, blah


HEY NOW!!!!

I never told anyone how to vote!!!!!

All I ask for was enough time to bail out before the Democrat/Socialist take over...

Is that asking too much?

Oh yeah, this is "Decision 2008" forum isn't it.. Supposed to be for politics? Let me go look..

lalalalalala

I'm back, yep I was right, this is the "Decision 2008" forum and it is SUPPOSED TO BE POLITICAL IN HERE...


Semper



reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 12:35 PM by semperfortis
reply to post by TruthWithin



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Now come on!!!!

You know me well enough by now to know I know what is going on...

I just 'dis' the Democrats so much to try and level the playing field a little with all the "Bush haters" that are out there.

I do however support the Government's support of corporations. This has traditionally proven to be healthy for the economy and well.. My portfolio as well.

The problem is too many people that have no idea how the market works, not really, making assumptions and stating comments about this.

It is lose lose for the government. Step in and they get blasted for "Bail-outs"...

Don't step in and we have a market crash the likes of which we have not seen for 78 years.

Do you really want to pay $20.00 for a loaf of bread?

So, I will keep supporting a system I KNOW works and continue to support a PROVEN concept. The Democrats are looking for change...

Well they might just get it and I WILL say I told you so..

....

Semper


reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 12:45 PM by TruthWithin
reply to post by semperfortis



No, YOU "come on", Mr. Semper!

You can't have it both ways, a kind of one sided socialized economy that is ok when it works for you and then to turn it around to besmirch the democrats with!

All your last post told me (and former, recent avatar crying foul that Obama will bring some socialist agenda to the WH) was that socialism is good only when it props up the bank to suit your portfolio but the very same concept is not ok when it fits your argument about the dems.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.


reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 12:50 PM by TruthWithin
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic





What I wonder is what we're NOT hearing about. If some of the "we are in for a big hit" info is getting to us, I wonder what the PTB have decided that we "can't handle" hearing. Not just Freddie and Fannie. (Who names these companies?) IndyMac, too, right?


That is the question of the hour, right? I did notice, however, that FDIC sure did have people on the ground handing out insurance fliers AND FAST! That really caught my eye, and the government has even gone as far as to seek legislation to prevent "rumors" from floating around the market!! Can you believe that!!?? No rumors on wall street!!!??

The fact is, and what most people don't understand, is that if people do panic and start pulling all of their cash out, the system will literally crash overnight. There is actually government protocol for such an event. All I remember reading is that on day 3 of the event, paratroopers would be dropped to protect the various locations of the fed. If a run on the banks does occur, it will be the end.


reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 12:53 PM by semperfortis
reply to post by TruthWithin



You are NOT supposed to remember old avatars!!!!...

And I like my cake just fine...

I don't like you anymore and I am taking my toys and going home!!!

Just kidding you know

Semper


reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 01:07 PM by Open_Minded Skeptic
Who to believe regarding the economic outlook? I'll take me. I believe my opinion.

And that is, we are in a world of hurt, and are going to be in more, fairly soon.

btw, Semper, I flatly reject your argument that the economy has gone downhill since and because of the Democratic majority in Congress.

Two reasons:

1 - The US economy is huge, and has inertia (for lack of a better term). I do not accept the premise that it is possible, barring some major disaster, to take a truly healthy economy the size of the US and pretty much destroy it in two years. Can't be done.

2 - What, exactly, has the Democratically controlled Congress done that is of any count at all? From what I've seen, and I admit I have not followed every single thing they do, having better things to occupy my time, such as picking lint from my dog's coat, the current Congress has been even more useless than the previous. Which is a Good Thing, in a way... a usesless Congress does less harm.

So, I reject that claim. Given the size of the US economy, if it were truly healthy, and the Democrats had ruined it, we would not yet be seeing the effects, or just barely.

And I don't recall any huge economic changes passed by Congress and signed by Bush.

Sorry, man, your argument on this does not hold water, from a purely logical point of view.

Back to the point - I see what I see in the economy - massive Gov't deficit spending, for one, and massive corruption for another - and I see trouble ahead.

I don't really care what Bernanke (sp?) says, and as for Bush, if he said it was hot at noon in June in Phoenix, I'd go outside myself to check.


reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 01:23 PM by semperfortis
reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic



That is why we all have opinions...

Makes this a great place to be.

Semper



reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 01:39 PM by kosmicjack
After observing what has happened to jobs and housing in ATL and the decline of my own particular business sector, I have been closely watching the economy since last summer. I go to lots of different economics/business sites and blogs. The one who I think seems to have been the most accurate is Jim Kunstler. Here's an excerpt from is his latest blog entry, though the full text is a great read:

www.kunstler.com...

With the death of the IndyMac Bank last week, and the GSEs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac laying side-by-side in the EMT van on IV drips, headed for the Federal Reserve's ever more crowded intensive care unit, there was a sense of the American Dream having passed through the event horizon that denotes the opening of a black hole…

What would happen if the US Government acted to bail out these feckless enterprises (and what if they don't)? Either way, it's not a pretty picture. If Mr. Bernanke does start shoveling loans into the GSE black hole, he'll further undermine the soundness of his own outfit and do nothing, really, to repair Fannie and Freddie's structural problem of having securitized too many loans that will never be paid back. If instead Fannie and Freddie are flat-out taken over entirely by the US government (and remember the Federal Reserve is not the government), then the national debt will roughly double overnight -- which will pound the US dollar down a rat-hole.

Meanwhile, the foreign holders of those decrepitating dollars might not rush to the redemption window, but they certainly would use them to buy up every oil futures contract on God's not-so-green Earth as fast as possible -- they'd be dumb not to -- which would leave American Happy Motorists with gasoline prices north of $5 a gallon, and possibly north of $10. (In that case, say goodbye to the airlines. In fact, say goodbye to what passes for the rest of the US economy, including especially the vaunted retail sector that supposedly counts for 70 percent of the action.)
If Fannie and Freddie are left to die out on the desert floor, say goodbye to the housing market, the major investment banks, countless regional banks, the retirement accounts of virtually everyone in America, the viability of all fifty states' governments, and the day-to-day operating ability of all their municipalities -- and very likely the current incarnation of the world banking system.

This process is really out of control now. The bottom line is the comprehensive bankruptcy of the United States. The Republican Party under George Bush will be known as the party that wrecked America (release 2.0). Painful as it is, Americans had better get a new "Dream" and fast. It better be a dream based on the way the universe actually works, which is to say an operating procedure run on earnest effort and truthfulness rather than merely trying to get something for nothing and wishing on stars. We might begin symbolically by evacuating Las Vegas and calling in an air strike on the loathsome place -- to register our new reality-based attitude adjustment.



reply posted on 17-7-2008 @ 02:54 PM by Open_Minded Skeptic
reply to post by jam321



No doubt... that's why I choose me as the person I believe.

I didn't hear on TV or radio that my food costs have tripled in the last year... that is a measurement, based on $$$ spent for food. Same for the other increased costs. And also same for the stagnant wages.

The economy does run in cycles, agreed. The current cycle, at least in the US, is one of spreading the difference between the rich and the rest economically. Which is not a stable situation, politically or civilly.
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