Catholics (Collectivists) Have Stronger CHARITY Impulse Than Protestants (Individualists)

PRAYER
Thank you GOD for making it so I would be born in this rich country with freedom and democracy and the highest GDP of any significant country! In YOUR wisdom GOD you have given me a country filled with YOUR kind of family VALUES. YOU do know your business GOD!”

NEWS
Ricky Green wandered into this town - Bolinas, CA - some months ago, a stranger just a bit stranger than most. He had shed his middle-class respectability working as a graphic artist in the 'burbs, strapped a guitar over his shoulder and landed here on what he told people was "a spiritual journey."

The night of June 23 proved how much he remained an outsider, in a liberal enclave stubbornly averse to strangers. Six young people including two juveniles allegedly attacked and stabbed Green with a viciousness that is forcing Bolinas to search its soul for meaning.

The attack happened on the beach. Green was stabbed multiple times and pummeled with a skateboard, flashlight and bottles. While he was down, the mob kicked and jumped on him. Sheriff's investigators said up to 20 witnesses watched the beating, but no one stopped it. Green, found semiconscious and bleeding profusely, was airlifted to a hospital in Santa Rosa, 50 miles away. He spent nearly two weeks there recovering from lacerations to the head and body.

In the first six months of 2008, 13 homeless people have been killed across the country, he said, a pace on par with last year's, in which 28 homeless people were killed, up from 20 in 2006. Nonfatal attacks also are rising, Stoops said, up from 142 in 2006 to 160 in 2007.

"Why are these attacks happening?" Stoops asked. "The main reason is that you can't go anywhere in society without coming across homeless folks. And there is this antipathy or scorn towards them." Add the boredom young people face in the summer, drugs or alcohol and a group mentality, Stoops said, and the mix becomes dangerous, if not lethal.
news.yahoo.com...

REMARKS. We can find $2 b. a week to spend busting up Iraq and Afghan. But we can’t SOLVE the homeless problem in America the Beautiful. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. GOD (Continue to) Bless America!

ARGUMENT.
Americans are very tolerant of homelessness. Well, RICH Americans are. The POOR Americans don't count for much because they have no MONEY and without money in America, you are next to nothing. You have NO power, and NO respect! Every November you are called out to RATIFY the carefully sorted out choices of the R&Fs - Rich and Famous - who will make the rules telling you what to do at the Federal, state and local level. Now this is called "democracy" and you are taught from infancy this is the very BEST way to live.

GRAND CONSPIRACY.
It is true the Holy Bible’s instructions can be confusing. I have heard it said you can prove anything by cherry picking one verse or even part of a verse to support your POV. Shucks, I hear we have more than 10,000 501(c)(3)s each seeing the Holy Writ differently! Maybe there is some merit in having a single unitary power to SAY WHAT IT MEANS? Say Hello Rome!

INCONVENIENT TRUTHS.
Whether this is an accurate rendering or not, two millennia (actually about 1,700 years) have made it our law - CANON - and we cannot undo it now. But we surely can ignore it!
Matthew 25:43 (King James Bible)
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not . .

Oh yes, I know, and with equal authority and (feigned) piety you can come right back with this one:
John 12:8 (King James Bible)
For the poor always ye have with you . .

CONCLUSION. And we certainly would not want to go against Scripture! I suppose that’s the REAL beauty of the Holy Bible. Anyone can find anything in it that he wants or needs. G’day.

[edit on 7/17/2008 by donwhite]

I'm sorry, Don White, but I can't see the protestant v catholic thing here.
I'm sure I'm missing something. Would you mind some further explaination for us oldsters .... thanks.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I'm sorry, Don White, but I can't see the protestant v catholic thing here.
I'm sure I'm missing something. Would you mind some further explaination for us oldsters .... thanks.

Yes, F/F, but you’ll have to settle for anecdotal and not even empirical. The history of Catholics immigrating to America which did not always welcome them was they were parochial. That is, to put a loose translation on it, they stayed close to their parish. Because the majority Protestant country ran its own PUBLIC schools, many Catholics made huge sacrifices to support their own church affiliated schools. Which had the unintended effect of strengthening Protestant resistance to assimilating Catholics. To survive Catholics were collectivists. They shared. Group think.

Now, I’ve read recently an argument that MOST Catholics are now really WASPs at heart. Not about to leave their FAITH but in all their other outward look, they are fully assimilated and share the same values of their fellow white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant neighbors. Which value on self is the founding credo of Protestant America: INDIVIDUALISM. Non-collectivists.

[edit on 7/17/2008 by donwhite]

Are you saying the people who kill these homeless people are protestants?

You don't know how liberal or atheistic California can be, obviously!
The churches I have been to Baptist, Holiness, Full Gospel, Presbyterian, Methodist ALL of them are VERY open to help poor people!
Many of them actively engage in homeless shelters and food banks!
A couple even had people come in off the street and ask them for money and we took up and offering.
One of the people, we found out Later, went around scamming churches for money, but the the church still helped poor people anyway!

reply to post by donwhite


You live in Jacksonville?
I used to live at Neptune beach.
There was a protestant (can't remember what denomination, though I think it was presbyterian, the one near the pier) on the beachfront that used to host volleyball games and sandwiches for a quarter for ANYONE off the street.
I used to hang out there when I was about 8. It was so peaceful.

There were prostitutes and heroin users that lived around there.
The seabreeze motel actually got in trouble because someone was making child pornography.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies

You don't know how liberal or atheistic California can be, obviously! The churches I have been to Baptist, Holiness, Full Gospel, Presbyterian, Methodist ALL of them are VERY open to help poor people! Many of them actively engage in homeless shelters and food banks!

And therein lies the rub. The problem is not with motivation so much as it is with capacity. There are perhaps 10 million people "living" in America - I hesitate to label them Americans - TOO close to dying and I have no doubt FAITH based organizations help 2-3 million of them survive from day to day. 50 million FAITH based people feel very much self-satisfied! But the problem is too large, too widespread and growing TOO fast to be solved piece-meal by a few people of parochial good will. Only the Federal government can solve this problem made famous in 1929 with Hoover-villes around America.

A couple even had people come in off the street and ask them for money and we took up and offering. One of the people, we found out Later, went around scamming churches for money, but the church still helped poor people anyway!

Again, it’s not so much the purity of your motives I am rejecting, it is the inherent unevenness, the uncertainties to the recipient of your largess that I find so distressing. ADD to that the fact this patchwork approach has the unintended effect of PROLONGING the underlying problems that lead to this perennial problem. Put in a word, it's POVERTY. And no one wants to address that issue. They would rather feed a few distressed people and PRAY that GOD will solve the BIG problem.

Then all too many otherwise good people shove back in their padded opera seats in the 10,000 capacity air conditioned auditorium with giant drop-down tv screens and a pipe organ that ran to six figures, to absorb a half hours harangue on some “safe” topic then self-congratulate on their own “sacrifice and piety.” Aside: I contend any minister of the gospel making a six figure salary is not a follower of Christ! And building $50 million cathedrals is not part of HIS agenda either.

I'll tell you though, I got laid off in February, my husband couldn't find construction work for 9 weeks and we don't own a home. Just one 1991 truck.
We have 3 boys.
Up to ten years old.
If we needed ANYTHING, all I have to do is call my preacher and ask or go to church and ask.
They've done it for MANY people in the church including the piano player and her husband.

The problem lies in the economy and outsourcing.
Thank God my husband found a job and we can afford to pay all our bills.

We also used to live at mayport.
And Atlantic Beach, we moved a LOT.
We used to go to Ponte Vedra beach, but, the last time I went there 1986, some guy was telling us that it was cool to go naked.
I haven't gone back, yet,

The surfers used to go right before a hurricane and have a party at Neptune beach and surf near the pier.

Nice times!

It wasnt always like this:

When i arrived from my freedom flight from you know where, it was the Protestants who helped us with everything back in the day.
There wasnt one Catholic church willing to help, as a result, my parents started going to protestant services. It was the protestant church who sponsored us to move to Massachusetts, it was them who paid for an apartment and provided food, and helped my dad find a decent job.

Having said that, and many years later, the Catholics seemed to get on thebandwagon and were all over the place helping. to them.
We are Catholics and could not figure out why they couldnt squeeze out a dime for traumatized families.

Now, as i said, they have changed, or so it seems. Perhaps they did not want to help political refugees, who knows. Glad to see them step up to the plate now.

reply to post by dgtempe

It wasn’t always like this: When I arrived from my freedom flight from you know where, it was the Protestants who helped us with everything back in the day. There wasn’t one Catholic church willing to help, as a result, my parents started going to protestant services. It was the protestant church who sponsored us to move to Massachusetts . . We are Catholics and could not figure out why they couldn’t squeeze out a dime for traumatized families. Now, as I said, they have changed, or so it seems. Perhaps they did not want to help political refugees, who knows. Glad to see them step up to the plate now.

And you must surely know from my prior posts I pray for Fidel Castro to outlive this president’s term of office so that it can be said he managed to outlast Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Senor, Clinton and now Bush Junior. I admit I was worried there for a while but the last tv shot of him gives me real hope he'll make it to January 20, 2009. No other national leader - save Queen Elizabeth II - can make that claim! She was crowned in 1953. Fidel beat Batista in 1959.

Now Batista was both “our man” and the Mafia’s man. By “our man” I mean he protected AMERICAN COMMERCIAL INTERESTS in Cuba at the expense of Cubans. And the Mafia's interest too. We overthrew Guzman in Guatemala. We fought to unseat Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua. We probably participated in the murder of Chile’s Allende. I have no doubt we tired to assassinate Castro.

It was and remains unfortunate that all the Western Hemisphere countries south of the Rio Grande River are faced with the same dilemma Castro faced in Cuba. It is just a coup d’etat if you continue the same practices as your predecessor. In every country south of the Rio Grande River, land reform is essential to re-vitalize the lives of the overwhelming majority of people who want nothing more than a better life. Since James Monroe it is Americans who are the primary economic exploiters south of the Rio Grande.

It stands to reason that American properly must be first confiscated the re-distributed. A poor country cannot pay “just compensation” for property taken. Debt is the new weapon for control of poor nations. Between the IMF and the World Bank, the US - we control both - we have now insulated our pompous democracy spouting governments from the reality of command and control.

Assuming the Curia runs if not rules the RCC, it is very hard to know what policy they have towards what we so casually call “undeveloped” nations. Some of the Curia (the more religious) want to help the poor, but a lot of others (the more pragmatic) want to protect the Church property-wise. That is not unreasonable, after all, the RCC has a huge budget that must be met.

My real point is that private organization are not capable of dealing realistically with the problem that homelessness is the most visible tip of the iceberg. I get piqued because so many otherwise good people feel they can satisfy their convictions by tossing in an extra $5 or $10 once in a while rather than face the tax bill for a multi TRILLION dollar undertaking to FIX poverty. I mean who wants to do the RIGHT thins when it costs so dam much?

[edit on 7/17/2008 by donwhite]

Whatever. Don.

I shed a little light on your original question, but as always, t doesnt work because your super human knowledge of all things Cuban had to come out as always.
I' m no match foryou. I am a mental midget when it comes to your rhetoric.

See you!!

Go play with some mensa members' head.

reply to post by dgtempe

Whatever. Don. I shed a little light on your original question, but as always, it doesnt work . . "

I’m really sorry about that Mr Dgtempe. I have no sympathy for complaining expatriate Cubans living the good life in the US. It’s been 49 years since the Revolution, so I suggest they “Get over it!” I suspect persons of good will and of Cuban extraction could return to the island if they wanted. But they can’t have their ancestral property back. It’s a new paradigm. Become a contributor and not just be a consumer.

Whatever inequities - real or perceived - visited upon them, the same or similar have been visited on others. Propaganda to the contrary notwithstanding.

I cannot apologize for how I feel or how I see reality, but I am sorry you feel offended. Neither of us can end whatever it is we like or dislike about Cuba now or yesterday. So we will have to agree to disagree about Cuba?