why is there so much satanism disinfo here

Originally posted by Illij
My guess is that these people you mention being tied with "satanism" are just a different kind of spiritual than Christian and non-religious people understand.

Or it is possible that they have gained some of their power through their dedication to Satan. I personally do not believe that any power obtained "through Satan" is evil or bad. But I believe it is powerful enough to assist these people and organizations (I don't know about the Freemasons, but I'd say Illuminati) in getting to where they are.

That's my 2 cents.

another great example of things just put out there as facts. satanists do NOT expect anything from satan, no powers, no contracts, no wishes, nothing. if you understood the nature of the religion or the idea of satan, you would know what a losing bet anyone would know that to be. satanists do not even believe in a deity named satan from whom to gain these things. your oppinion is more than welcome, but it is embedded in these "facts" about devil 'worship.' thats what i am trying to understand.

Originally posted by Omega85


If people want to know about that sort of stuff, then they will look for it where it belongs.

If they don't want to know about it then they most certainly don't want it shoved in there faces.

Omega

[edit on 17/7/2008 by Omega85]

thanks for your words and all but i have to take issue here. people dont want to know, they dont look, yet they LOOOOOOOOVE to tell everyone how much they know about it

and i would never preach or prosteletize but i see nothing wrong with having people around or a thread here and there to go find out these things in case someone actually took the effort to look before speaking out of there bottom half

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by Omega85

 

I guess it gets annoying when people are Christian-bashing and besmirching religion to have a Christian come in and bring everything off topic.

I'd like to see some threads where a Christian ACTUALLY took over a thread and de-railed it. I've asked for it before on "Creationists will destroy ATS", but, no one gave me any.......


Back to the topic;
Satan of the Bible (as far as most people's translation) means God's opposer.
His enemy.
I've heard it explained that satan was actually a 1000 bc king or something, mistranslations, etc......
But, you know who I'm talking about. The devil.
he is real and has caused more turmoil than stupid mankind throughout the ages.
Now, if someone called themselves a Christian, but, then said, :We don't believe in Christ , we just follow what he stands for".
I would be more than skeptical of that name.
If he's not real, why not call yourselves anarchists or radical nonconformists?

first of all...as to my threads point

can you please prove to me that he is real and has caused anything? any proof at all would be great. otherwise, you are what the thread is about.

secondly, why call satanism satanism if satan is not real? that is actually quite easy to answer but like i said. this is not ask a satanist. this is
why is there so much BS about satan running everything since mars was inhabited by lizards and where does all this completely false crap come from and why do people feel they can state it as fact based on nothing
example "he is real"

Originally posted by dariousg


I'm just wondering where you are coming from. From the title I got that you were a worshipper of "Satanism" but then the above post makes me tend to believe that you are a worshipper of one or the other listed above. That you are trying to get the term "satanic" removed from that style of worship. ?

ask and ye shall receive i suppose.

satanism is not about worship in any way shape or form. who told you that it was, where did you learn that. not from the church of satan. i also did not feel that what i am or not is irrelevant to the thread.

Originally posted by ToolFanMael


the way its been taught to me (my mom was a minister at a local church for 15 years) and a friend I grew up with his father and grandfather are high ranking freemasons and my friend has been practicing differnet rituals and witchcraft with his dad since he was little... both have told me the same thing in different words...

I.M.O. - The way I undertstand it and have been told.. there is no right and wrong in the spirit world.. in this existance only is where love and hate good and evil exist due to our limited understanding of things (yes im aware this is a very vague basic discription im not that good at writing)

just thought I would throw that out there!

i am not sure how much more clearly i can state this. your oppinion on the original question is great. your idea of satanism based on a preacher, that is the crap the thread is about. i would not go to a plumber to tell me how a hard drive works. i do not care what a preacher says about satanism. he is not a satanist, he does not know any satan but his own and thats not the same one.

i really did not think this post would catch on in any way. i have alot to read so for the people that got my question, whether you agree or not, THANK YOU for at least having reading comprehension skills.

Originally posted by ToolFanMael




is this topic/subject an interest or hobby of yours? or do you have professional or post secondary school academic experience of some sort?

im just curious you seem condescending

[edit on 17-7-2008 by ToolFanMael]

you are right, i am getting condescending. I am kind of tired of reading posts that address some other question, not what i posed, and within that, also proving the point i was hoping to clear up. so when the general consensu against you continues to speak in a manner clearly demonstrating a complete lack of ability to read and understand...i get condescending. other than that, i do not WANT to be satanic. Wants are and expression of desire to attain. I have no need for wants. are you asking what religion i subscribe to? just what knowledge I have of satanism? i mean really, what is it that you are getting at?

[edit on 7/17/2008 by re22666]

Originally posted by searcus

I could be wrong about this but how can come from an OUTSIDE perspective when the Bible created Satan to begin with. Without the Bible you would have no Satan right?

you are wrong. i did not ask about satan or satanism. in fact i have pointed how crazy it is to talk about satanic cults before satan was a word so i am with you, kind of, there.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WHY SO MANY CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE CALLED "SATANIC" AND THEN WHY IS THE "SATANIC" EVIDENCE SO MUCH CRAP THAT IS NOT TRUE ABOUT THE TRUE SATANISM.

everyone got the actual thread yet?

reply to post by re22666


perhaps the posts that answer some other question are an indicator of why there are so many answers to the satan question as you mentioned in your op. everyone sees an aspect of satan in something. which wouldn't be hard to do if you consider that the biblical texts claim this is/was his planet and that his minions are/were in control of it.

there's even old testament prophecy that outlines the beginnings of a belief system in which the human claims he is god. kinda indicative of the satanist creed, that if there is a destiny, we make it ourselves, and if there's an evil, we do it ourselves and so on. the idea that there is no god but oneself, to thine own self be true and other such commentary.

drink, eat and be merry for tomorrow you may die.
if it feels good, do it.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by searcus

 

No, Satan was there from the beginning.
Babylonianism is where it REALLY took off, mainly because it was so LARGE.
The worship of satan under different names is what we generally see throughout history, except there is ALWAYS a commonality in attributes of him.

Satanists just don't understand what all the fuss is about, when they call themselves by a well-known devlish name.

lolololol. there was no satan before satan. that is just patently false in sooo many ways. There were 'devils' and 'demons' and always some form of personified evil but not "Satan." sorry. Unless you can find me a reference to "Satan" from before that.

Why Anton Lavey chose such a specific and inflamatory name is quite the puzzle. you might have to read all of ten pages of the satanic bible to find that out.

reply to post by re22666


i love a good challenge. especially on ancient history and etymology! i will get back to you on the antiquity thing. can't guarantee satisfying results, but will try my darndest to uncover the origins.

Originally posted by maybereal11
For what it is worth...In college I studied cultural anthropolgy with an emphasis on religions with courses like "magic, witchcraft and religion"

One of the things that always stood out to me about Satanism is that it is not a religion...but rather a psuedo religion wholey dependant on Christianity. Satanism is premised on the bible and christian teachings.

where did you get this informaion about satanism? from your teacher? textbook? class discussion? see the catholic church would not exsist without satan. satanism does not need christianity, the bible, or their god. satanism is more of a philosyphy and way of life than a religion true but...it is technically a religion as any other here, no matter how crazy. and if you think that is crazy, look up what tax exempt religions there are and see what crazy things they do. at least the black house pays its taxes.

i really do appologize for posting so many in a row. not even i want to see what i have to say that often. I never imagined this kind of response and i am sorry but soo many just ache for me to respond to them.

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by Illij
My guess is that these people you mention being tied with "satanism" are just a different kind of spiritual than Christian and non-religious people understand.

Or it is possible that they have gained some of their power through their dedication to Satan. I personally do not believe that any power obtained "through Satan" is evil or bad. But I believe it is powerful enough to assist these people and organizations (I don't know about the Freemasons, but I'd say Illuminati) in getting to where they are.

That's my 2 cents.

another great example of things just put out there as facts. satanists do NOT expect anything from Satan, no powers, no contracts, no wishes, nothing. if you understood the nature of the religion or the idea of Satan, you would know what a losing bet anyone would know that to be. satanists do not even believe in a deity named Satan from whom to gain these things. your opinion is more than welcome, but it is embedded in these "facts" about devil 'worship.' thats what i am trying to understand.

I love the fact that you have named your religion based on Satan but then deny you have anything to do with him. Typical Satanist, Follow the devils lead. The greatest thing Satan even did was convince many that he does not exist. I have listened to your kind over and over and every time, The longer they speak the more comes out that they are worshipers of the anti-Christ and the devil himself. A few have even been brave enough to deny this with Art Bell on Coast to Coast and they get busted every time.

the word "satan" was both a noun and an adjective. it meant adversary, the accuser, to throw something in the path to impede progress, examples of this action were described further in the context of the verses. it was generally used by the hebrews to describe any angel who attempted to bring harm to or stop the progress of the hebrews, and in this context, signified a particular fallen angel, who was characterized almost exclusively as a serpent man (reptilian), a seraph (that's what a serpent man is). also called dragon men and scorpion men in antiquity but not specifically satans unless used in context with the adjective (to throw a blockage) or described as hampering in some way. such as the israelites encountered seraph(im) *fiery serpents* in their 40 year desert trek, who tried to impede their progress.

so it would appear, that when they perceived something to be evil being done to them, that it was laid solely at the feet of any one of the offending seraphim, and this seraph would immediately become satan, as the adversary.

the original serpent, however, was modelled after Enki from sumerian texts (or so it would appear).

Originally posted by Tricky63
I'm not a christian per say however I do find a lot in the christian religion that has worked for me on a personal level.That being said I have a question? The christian book of myths you refer to is the bible right? Ok the name for the belief system you belong to is called satanism right? Well correct me if I'm wrong but the name satan the very name of your belief system comes from that book of myths correct?

All right so what part of the book do you consider myth? All of it? Or just the parts that talks about God? The flood? Is there a book thats older than the bible that mentions satan by name? If there is such a book does it use a different name? If thats true why isnt that used instead of the one from the book of myths? If there is such a book does it mention God,heaven ect? Who created the universe satan? If not then does it mean that satan is a myth?



Reminds me of a dog chasing his tail

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Tricky63]

i really did not want to have to address this in this thread. i am not preaching or prosteltizing or trying to convince, convert, anything. i do not care to defend satanism nor its makeup per se. i wanted to know why people on ATS see satanism in EVERYTHING. thats all. i did not ask why people are not satanists did i? just why is it so prevelant on this site. buy hey, it keeps being asked so here you go.

the whole thing is a book of myths. i do not buy one part of the so called christian bible. if you believe it then you should spend some time looking at the many many many many people that have had their hand at rewriting it t suit the times, and how many parts have been 'discarded' and changed completely. but if it helps someone to believe it, good for them.
why would Anton Lavey pick the word satan to base his religion on when the core belief is that christianity and all deity based religions are hogwash? it is quite simple. throughout history, evil has had sooo sooo many names. many characteristics have followed that eventually made their way into the christian satan. they all work pretty well, so many embody almost the exact ideals and lessons. so what does believing the bible have to do with it? it is not based on or in, nor does it rely on nor revolve around christianity or its book of fables.
Read it sometime. You will find christian words like christ. change them. pick any religion, any prophet and make it a crazy little polytheistic mad libs. does it still make the exact same points? yup. does it still send the exact same message? well if you are a better reader than most people i find on these boards, then yes.
and as to the name, Satan. Well let me use it generically as we all know it for a moment. in true satanic form, anton lavey had some bridges to burn and was not going to shed a tear had certain people perished in that fire and subsequent collapse. he wanted to rebel against the sheep metality that all religions seemed to be raping their flocks with and wanted to be contrary. he was both petty as well as a showman. so in the us, in the 60's when someone is raised catholic, and the ones that showed the most outragous hypochrisy and pushed him farther from the light and grace of god, were catholics. so why not go with satan. satan is a prick, a liar, a trickster, a selfish being that would trample the weak to get what it needs and wants please itself. so as the founder of a movement that all hopes would revoloutionize and impact the world, why not name it after a name you know would be so widely despised and seen as as far contrary as you can get. so he took the word satan and adapted it to fit the historical meanings so often attatched to the devils of all time. but who was going to rush to follow the church of sheva? we all see how well the temple of set has caught on. Anton new how to dig, to upset, most of all, more than anything he ever knew, it was how to promote. and it worked.
i know christians have a hard time resolving that, but that is because it doesnt fit your rules. that is right, they are not your rules. see if your bible actually tells you just exactly what to expect from satan and how to beat him. id love that verse on here. so i will go open ask a satanist and anymore stuff like this can go there. i am going to try try try try to get to the topic that seems to get hit once out of every 6 posts.

Originally posted by maudeeb
Satanism is a phrase, a word, a construct. It's a completely relative subject. There's no real scientific studies I'm aware of that define "satanism". What we should focus on is what does it describe - the word and it's theological / historical connotations are wide open to individual interpretation. You could go on hair splitting about it for pages and pages.

I think Undo may have hit the nail on the head in an earlier statement - that it's any act that goes against the "will of god". What’s the “Will of God” ? I’d say a natural balance – as oversimplified as that sounds ;-). Let’s say a natural balance of the psyche/ spirit (within) and a natural balance of the surrounding environment (without) So anything that acts against the natural balance within and without feels off or wrong to the INDIVIDUAL based on his perception. When that happens they grasp for the most familiar and easiest to use term – “Satanism” in this case.

so can i just make up what i think judaism is? islam? taoism? satanism is an actual religion. i dont know why that keeps being stated as false. what makes an official religion to you? it fits the governments requirements for a legitimate religion. religions scholars will admit to you that the church of satan and it's followers constitute an actual legitimate religion. so i ask again, if people can just make up what they think satanism is, can i just make up what i thnkg any other religion is?

Originally posted by undo

This illustrates the reason Humans have not progressed,

Progress leads to pollution. Pollution leads to destruction of the environment. Destruction of the environment leads to chaos. Chaos leads to death and destruction. chaos can kiss my lily white hind quarters. Don't blame the slave for the master's choices. What kind of idiot would claim it's his slave's fault that he ordered him to go build a neighborhood in a rain forest? Passing the buck is almost at its end my friend

that is sucha beautiful statement. you are soo right. progress conintually leads to another fork in the road full of more ills and evils. it should be stopped and reversed. just one thing? how far back you think we should go? colonial days? dark ages? cavemen? which time was holiest?

well i definitely need to thank xlucifer and scurvy, not for agreeing or anything. i have a feeling that locked in a room, we might disagree quite a bit. but aside from the people that had nice things to say and moved on, it almost felt like i was being ganged up on and after two hours im not even halfway through what was posted since i got offline last night. so thanks for keeping the discussion going back and forth. i was afraid a bunch of squatters would move in and have a love fest while i was away.

reply to post by Equinox99

nd you see this is the difference between me and you, evil and good, dark and light. You think if a human is weak he does not deserve to live. I think we were all born equal and each person excels in a different trait.

so then do you think animals are evil? is nature evil? is god evil? these things all kill the weak far more often, and often more savagely than people kill people.
and in 1000 years when everyone born "equal" is tryng to find a place to live, food to eat, and a way to survive...i wonder how everyone will survive. i cant help but think it wil eventually be the strong killing off the weak just to have room for their elbows at the dinner table.

so are those three things evil? they all kill the weak.