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Apes in Europe could get same legal rights as humans

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posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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Apes in Europe could get same legal rights as humans


www.freep.com

LONDON -- In Europe, apes are inching toward obtaining the same legal rights as humans.
Advertisement

A Spanish parliamentary committee adopted resolutions last month that would give great apes, such as chimpanzees and gorillas, the right to life, freedom from arbitrary captivity and protection from torture.

If approved as expected next year, Spain would be the first nation to extend human rights to what some believe are mankind's closest genetic relatives.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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The case of Austrian chimp Matthew is about treating him like a human child. Theuer, his lawyer, wants him declared a person and granted four of about 50 rights enjoyed by Europeans: the right to life, limited freedom of movement, personal safety and the right to claim property. He also wants Matthew to have a legal guardian.


The article goes on to say that would prevent apes from being captured, used for experiments or put in circuses. I think that's great. I'm all for protecting them and giving them certain rights. I've seen chimps living in horrible conditions in zoos, and it breaks my heart. I am not sure how I feel about treating them like human children. They aren't children.



www.freep.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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Hmmm.. I thought this was an important article. Doesn't anyone else think so? If it passes, it will change how apes/chimps are treated.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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Hmm! maybe they're trying to tell us that as far as they're concerned OUR rights are'nt worth a monkeys



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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wow finally!....i think this would be common sense to anyone who has ever spent time with apes!
Imagine throwing human baby into a dark box,shipping them half way across the world,keeping them in cages in dodgy pet shops...About time i say!



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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I wonder what a chimpanzee mother would do if it saw a human baby next to her.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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is bush coming to live in spain then?


sorry couldn`t resist...



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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I think "the right to life, freedom from arbitrary captivity and protection from torture" shouldn't be given only to humans and apes, i think it should be common to all animals. Well, at least those animals humankind doesn't consider food.

But yeah, maybe when they say apes will have the same rights as humans what they actually mean is that they'll take away rights from humans, not giving rights to apes


Oh well, i think its good news. We should have more good news...



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by virraszto
 


If they live in California, can a person get married to them?

..
..

Sorry, just a little humor...

Semper



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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So what will this do to zoos? While I personally think zoos do have some place as far as teaching children about animals and in many cases protection now as well; zoos do though take away the basic right of animals as far as freedom.

So what sort of affect will this have on zoos and similar parks? I agree with the poster though that says shipping a baby ape off differs little from shipping of a human child. At the same time even though they are possibly a “lesser” being it is also no different than shipping off a lizard to a pet shop which is every bit as important as any other animal.

I think there is an ethical issue when dealing with animals and keeping them in a place where they normally would not be of their own choosing.

Slightly off topic but didn’t something similar happen in one of the Planet of the Apes moves? I remember they were used as slaves but could swear there was talk about ape rights and such.

Raist



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
So what will this do to zoos? While I personally think zoos do have some place as far as teaching children about animals and in many cases protection now as well; zoos do though take away the basic right of animals as far as freedom.

So what sort of affect will this have on zoos and similar parks? I agree with the poster though that says shipping a baby ape off differs little from shipping of a human child. At the same time even though they are possibly a “lesser” being it is also no different than shipping off a lizard to a pet shop which is every bit as important as any other animal.

I think there is an ethical issue when dealing with animals and keeping them in a place where they normally would not be of their own choosing.

Slightly off topic but didn’t something similar happen in one of the Planet of the Apes moves? I remember they were used as slaves but could swear there was talk about ape rights and such.

Raist


A newly born baby chimp etc is far more aware of its surroundings than a newborn human baby...and well...from what ive seen before...a gorrila mother saved a young boy when he fell into an enclosure in a zoo and was unconscious...but apes are like us and have vastly different personalities so...



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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The only thing I have to say is that this is brilliant news. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Virraszto.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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I think that animals should be treated with proper respect and without unnecessary cruelty. But those are animal. Granting animal, ape or ant, human rights is wrong. In the end i foresee that animals will be treated the same, but humans will be treated worse.
Apes are very smart,emotional and social animals. Not humans though. We have two completely different societies which will never find unified common set of rules and behaviors. In my opinion this move is overkill that will bring in future lot of suffering (even more then now) - for apes and humans.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Lethil
 


I think this is the event you are thinking about. Actually it was a big, male gorilla that guarded the boy until the keepers could get him out of the enclosure:

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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I understand what you are saying, though I wonder why you directed it at me.

While one new born may be more aware of their surroundings than another it does not make it any more right to be placing either in a dark box and shipping them anywhere. If you thought I was saying any different that is not so. If you thought that I was saying one is more important than another that is not so. For all intent and purpose though I do believe that humans have a soul, and while I am not sure that animals do I believe that we (humans) should do what we can to make sure they have a comfortable life. I do not see why animals do not have certain rights already on the books. Even animals used as food deserve the right to a life that is relatively pleasant and a very quick and painless death.

If there was another point you were trying to make to me I must have lost it somewhere in the translations of the internet posting game that we are all participating in at the moment. If this is the case please explain what you mean in another way I might be experiencing slow thought today. This has taken place before and I am sure my brain will have the same issues as I continue to grow older. Also this slight head ache I have might be interfering some as well with normal thought, if this is so it is a much better excuse.

Raist



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Better treatment of them is a great thing, but not giving them so much freedom to where they can go anywhere they want.

Would you like a 400 pound gorilla walking around freely, with no one to watch him?



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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All animals are equal....


.....some are more equal than others.

Good post! Star & Flag.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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If they migrated the Briatin they would get a free house and council tax, and if they had babies because they could get more Bananas then they will make more babies to help the sytem work. Cool, my new neigbour will be an ape.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by DJMessiah
 


He can certainly have my room!!!!

...
....

Sorry again... I just keep cracking up at the idea of Animals having human rights..

I love animals,, More than many I would guess, but my Cats and my Dogs have no sense of morality and they act instinctual. Now they do in fact have their own personalities, but I doubt if "Pebbles" cares about the 4th Amendment..

I'll ask her when she gets out of the litter box...


Sorry again

Semper



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


img]http://www.koko.org/images/KokoPixNew/080708_img_0216_k_yard_T.jpg[/img][

I once worked for dell computers and one night during a really long shift, a colleague remarked that they (dell) could get chimps to do this work!,
I replied, "they already tried that, but the chimps refused", i went on to point out that while my colleague (the "superior" being) was stuck in a factory with sweat rolling down his back, our chimp friends were lolling about in a tree, sucking on a bananna and playing with themselves. So much much for being superior eh?

I think the point is, that while chimps and our other cousins mightn't be that interested in our little amendments, they are nonetheless sentient beings and we really don't have the right to capture and imprison them without trial.

With regard to the morality of great apes, i recommend you study the life of Koko, a gorilla that was taught to sign (www.koko.org). An example of which was a time when she (koko) told her trainer that she wanted a baby. She had been raised with a male gorilla and the trainer suggested that she have a baby by this male, to which Koko more or less replied that since they had been raised together, their relationship was a akin to that of a brother and sister, which would suggest a certain morality to me. It's a fascinating story, which i do hope you look up.

More importantly though, gorillas, chimps, banobos and some of the lesser apes are being hunted to extinction by the african bush meat trade and to my mind the only way to protect them is to grant them some sort of equality with humans, so that to murder one of them would be a crime equivalent to murdering one of us, with the same penalties.




[edit on 17/7/08 by feoil]

[edit on 17/7/08 by feoil]



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