Most Dangerous Liar: Clinton or Bush?

My contention is that both of these Presidents were outrageous liars, and if the FULL TRUTH of what they did is ever revealed, it will completely dishearten, and probably destroy all confidence in the Presidency, including future presidents.

But I suspect that one was a bigger liar than the other.

I'm interested in hearing opinion on this, rather than giving my own opinion, but I think Clinton was actually a bigger liar, more adept, and more deceitful (and I'm not just talking about "lying about sex" here, but much darker secrets that we may not know about yet.)

One example of a huge Clinton lie, probably worthy of its own thread, is here:

blather.net...

(I am convinced that Clinton has never told the truth about what happened at the above link, that the truth was actually too dark, and to embarrassing ever to be revealed to the American public. I include it only as one example.)

Regardless, Clinton was undeniably a smooth and self-serving liar – we know that. But I think Bush is also a huge liar, and I will be surprised if anyone defends Bush here by contradicting that assertion.

We have to live in a framework of what we believe to be true. That belief system maybe incredibly polluted. We may be living in a delusion that is quite detached from reality, making it quite possible that things like alien bodies at Area 51, or all other topics at this website, are 100% true.

reply to post by Buck Division

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Clinton he was a cheater... Bush is the most honest man I've ever seen!

Is this a joke?

I'm not joking, no, but it is probably worth asking me, or are you saying that you are joking about Bush being the most honest man, because that would be an understandable joke, but I'm not really sure what you are saying here, or the point your making, other than you think that I might be joking, and yes this is a one sentence post, but I am joking about that.

Bush lies all the time when you see him say that he wants to keep America safe.

i saw this on a movie but i found the quote to be very apt

"All presidents lie, they have done all done so after Trueman, and what he said was"the buck stops here"

or something to that effect ill have to rewatch that movie

Hills Have eyes 2 Unrated (remake not the old one)

i think clinton was the least harmful liar.

No argument with your opinion, Demandred. It is a good one, But I will go a bit further and say that both Bush and Clinton did a lot of harm with their lies.

#1 I believe George Bush committed a HUGE lie of omission. That lie is as follows: He was aware that the attacks of September 11th were likely to occur, but he said to himself "They wouldn't dare!" and he did nothing! (Come on – the intelligence reports were on Bush's desk!) Bush will never admit to that -- but I bet it is true. He WANTED this war, contrary to what he has implied.

#2 I believe Bill Clinton committed a relatively minor lie, but it was one of pure commission, and extremely grievous in its sheer boldness. He NEW he was lying, he actively lied, and he thought he could get away with it. There was no rational other than he didn't think it was important enough to tell the truth about. He chose to lie, because being the President, people would believe him! To me, that was a very dangerous thing to do. The consequences: Clinton set the "truth" bar VERY LOW. Other lying Presidents would inevitably follow him. I bet I could draw a line between that lie, and the invasion of Iraq.

#

Neither one of these guys is / was honest, blunt, truthful, or anything that we want or need for a President. They manipulated us with lies.

And unfortunately, the same situation likely exists with Obama and McCain -- I don't know for sure yet. I fear we are going to go down a long and tortuous path of lying USA Presidents for at least another generation (or two) of humanity. That really depresses me. The consequences will not be good.

Edit: To clarify -- I list just two obvious examples, above. The biggest lies have yet to be discovered and / or confirmed. I am sure there are countless horrific examples that will never be known: Murders, rapes, tortures, embezzlement, horrible injustices, as well as many lies that exist strictly to prevent embarrassment. How many deliberate lies exist to hide selfishness and stupidity? QUITE A FEW, no doubt.

That's all I have to say on this subject. Whew! I feel better now

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Buck Division]

I would have to say Clinton
People seem to suicide or fly into mountains around the Clintons

Okay – just one more thing to say.

(Man – maybe I should be entertaining myself with a blog or something. I find I have more to say on this topic than I originally thought.)

Consider you have two friends:

Friend #1. You invite this first friend over to your house. Later, you find your wallet missing. You suspect your friend may have picked it up by accident, but he denies it completely! He is offended at the suggestion. You later learn (by reviewing your "Nanny" tapes, lets say) he picked your wallet up, looked at it carefully, and snuck it into his pocket! He stole your wallet, and deliberately lied!

Friend #2. You lend your second friend your sports car on Friday evening. Saturday morning he shows up at your doorstep. The car is smashed! He apologizes – it was an accident! He really regrets what happened. Later, you find out he went on a bender Friday night – he went driving in your car, totally drunk! He didn't tell you that! What a disrespectful jerk!

The first is a lie of commission: a deliberate lie. It cost you $50 bucks and some minor inconvenience in obtaining a new wallet.

The second lie is one of omission: he didn’t tell you the whole truth about his plans when he borrowed your car, and you now have major inconvenience and expense in getting your car fixed!

Which is worse?

I would say the first lie, even though it was not as expensive. I think you would totally divorce yourself from your first friend. He can't possibly be trusted. He probably lies to you all the time.

Your second friend – another big liar! You are upset, surely! But at least he didn't totally abuse your friendship by denying that he wrecked your car. You won't lend him your car again of course, but you might continue the friendship on some level.

Friend #1 is Bill Clinton. Friend #2 is George Bush. Neither one of these people are to be trusted. But Bill Clinton's lie, although not costing you as much, was still much more abusive. You can never trust him again with anything of small or large consequence, as I see it.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Buck Division]

Yes. A lot of coincidences there. As I said previously, if you lie about small things that make you look bad, are you going to tell the truth about big things that are criminal?

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Regarding Bill Clinton, I really regret one thing: If only Clinton had looked directly at the TV camera and said, "No comment. Think whatever."

If he had said that, I would never have written this thread. Instead he chose to say, "I did not have sex with that woman."

At that moment, I thought to myself, "He has just put the full honesty and prestige of the Presidency on the line. So he must be telling me the truth."

That moment was the beginning of the end of my innocent belief in Bill Clinton.

Edit: Probably a good thing, actually. I might never have believed what a huge liar Clinton was, if not for that one mistake in is perfect lying demeanor. So I guess it was a lucky moment for me after all.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Buck Division]

Yeah well Friend #2 (Bush) didn't sell supercomputers to China that could be used for nuclear weapons guidance. Or pardon convicted felons who contributed to his campaign... (Bush does have Libby though, though it doesn't hold a torch)