It seems to me that, if you accept Christianity as truth, one would actually prefer "damnation" over joining God in Heaven. Before I go on, of course, I should point out that I don't buy into the whole idea of eternal physical torture at the hands of demons in a lake of fire. From what I can gather, that popular image of Hell is a fairly new concept cooked up by priests in order to scare us into following orders.

So what is Hell really like? Well, since there are so many differing ideas of what exactly Hell is, I'll use the definition provided by the Cathetism of the Catholic Church:

'We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."610 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.611 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self- exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell." '

Basically, the way that translates to me is that Hell = an eternity spent apart from God.

Now let us consider the path that leads to this supposedly miserable punishment, and the opposite path that leads to what is surely a truly wonderous reward.

To cut right to the point, let's just examine the cardinal sins. This gives us a general idea of what God considers bad behavior, deserving of his eternal scorn:

Lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and pride.

Depending on one's interpretation, as many as all seven of those could much more easily be seen as virtues when you're trying to live an enjoyable life instead of following orders, and without the first - lust - the species would go extinct within a single generation! And when should it ever be considered wrong to be proud of oneself?

I'll tell you when. When you're a subject of the most vain entity in history. God wants nothing but blind obedience and praise from human beings. He does not appear to want us to be happy at all, and explicitly commands us not to seek knowledge or strive for success and wealth.

So why would you expect him to do a complete 180 once you're dead and in Heaven? If you've spent your entire life denying pleasures and slavishly adhering to a ridiculous doctrine, do you really think the reward will be a paradise?

I'd much prefer to spend eternity in Hell, where surely all Earthly passions and pursuits are held in the highest esteem - finally free from the reach of that great party-pooper in the sky. And, as an added bonus to being eternally separated from God, imagine the wonderful company of the other damned souls! Philosophers, pleasure-seekers, artists and the like, enjoying everlasting orgies, feasts and merryment. Heaven, meanwhile, would be full of slaves and prudes.

Since neither of those places actually exist, and are only simple fictions designed to instruct and control idiots, I don't see where one would be any more preferable than the other.

Heaven and Hell, as expressed as pure joy or pure pain, can only be found here on Earth during our brief existences, and everybody seems to get both in roughly equal measure before we pass into an infinity of nothingness.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by Nohup]

Sin is the ONE component you forgot that makes the world (not so great)
It taints everything it touches like mildew.

Now, let's look at that list (not that I really believe there are only 7)
How would they look in heaven?

Lust,( JOY) gluttony,(Banqueting) greed,(More than enough for everyone)
sloth,(sweet rest) wrath,(no anger) envy, (Why should we if we're perfect?) and pride.(Confidence and boldness)


[edit on 16-7-2008 by Clearskies]

[edit on 16-7-2008 by Clearskies]

Since none of you know for a fact that these places exist/do not exist, then we can believe whatever we want without people putting us down. Nohup, you do realize that not everyone who believes in a religion is an idiot right? If you think that then my friend you should look no further to convict anyone.

Originally posted by EverythingYouDespise


I'll tell you when. When you're a subject of the most vain entity in history. God wants nothing but blind obedience and praise from human beings. He does not appear to want us to be happy at all, and explicitly commands us not to seek knowledge or strive for success and wealth.

So why would you expect him to do a complete 180 once you're dead and in Heaven? If you've spent your entire life denying pleasures and slavishly adhering to a ridiculous doctrine, do you really think the reward will be a paradise?

It's like a nagging wife: She doesn't want you to do the dishes, she wants you to WANT to do the dishes . God doesn't want you to just praise him or he would just make you; he wants you to want to praise him haha.

Sounds like some BS mindgames to me. The only part of religion I could never accept and bothered me since I was a child was this whole concept of 'worship' and 'obedience'. No thanks...

After a great deal of searching I came to believe in Christ, not myself.

I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No-one comes to the Father but through Me.

John 14:6

As a sinner I needed guidance, revelation and renewal. The second half of Christ's statement shows where its leading, even though I deserve none of it.

Originally posted by pause4thought
After a great deal of searching I came to believe in Christ, not myself.

That is truly unbelievable. I'm not trying to bash you, but wow. Once you lose faith and strength in yourself and look at other sources of comfort and hope, you've lost it all. Human will is an amazing source of energy and hope, human determination. I'm in awe at your comment, just wow.

hell is nothing but a grave

lake of fire it was people seem to think hell is, they are different things

heaven is the heavens

jesus is coming back to rule on earth, so for us to go to heaven just to come back i dont get it

i dont think there is a place called heaven, the universe is heaven as god is omnipresent

noone is burning in hell right now cause the book of life and judgement day have not happened

we all sort of sleep when you die until that day comes

no relatives in heaven, no bad people in hell

they are sort of slumbered i guess

that is my opinion

I'm speaking specifically of my ability to avoid living in a way that leads away from Heaven. I lost confidence in it a long time ago.

Jesus said

I assure you, unless you are converted and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 18:3

If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

Little children lean on their parents and trust them implicitly. It's not natural for adults to think that way, but the prize makes it well worthwhile!

Originally posted by pause4thought
I'm speaking specifically of my ability to avoid living in a way that leads away from Heaven. I lost confidence in it a long time ago.

If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

Sounds like you had a rough past, and went straight to a solution that filled your confidence again, which is excellent. Just ashame you lost belief in yourself and depend on someone else to guide your life. I hope all goes well for you, just wish you'd somewhat see that what creates you to others is yourself then unique of a human heart powered by self-confidence...even through the worst of time.

Edit, spelling error.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by Tomis_Nexis]

great post, i am now considering you a friend...

god is indeed a jealous and caniving little bastard playing with his lego set in the skies....that's if he exists in the first place...which i don't believe he does...

"For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God." (Exodus 20:5)

god, the hypocrite, the murderer, and the slayer of souls...

whoever worships god, jesus and the holy crappy spirit are nothing but filthy scared losers!!





Edited to remove caps in the word god, as a filthy being such as him does not even deserve a capital in his filthy name



[edit on 16-7-2008 by The Soldier Of Darkness]

Originally posted by Nohup
Since neither of those places actually exist, and are only simple fictions designed to instruct and control idiots, I don't see where one would be any more preferable than the other.

I'm approaching this topic from a philosophical vantage point. If they were known actual locations, I'd just buy a couple of tour guides and figure out which one seemed more appealing.

Originally posted by Clearskies
Sin is the ONE component you forgot that makes the world (not so great)
It taints everything it touches like mildew.

I've never understood that viewpoint. After all, it seems like pretty much everything enjoyable in life is considered sinful. The funny thing is, whether most of us can admit it or not, pretty much everyone in the world is an unrepentant sinner. How many big fat gluttons shout about fire and brimstone from the pulpit every Sunday? What about the teetotallers who are so full of pride at their fascinating ability never to drink? Or those lustful Mormons or Catholics with eight or nine kids?

I think there is a difference between the wicked and sinners.I think the wicked are those that causes pain and misery on others for the sake of causing pain and misery.Sinners are people that make spiritual "mistakes" if you will and make choices that goes against God's law.From what I understand and believe is that the wicked along with Satan and his demons are tormented forever in the lake of fire.Sinners who dont repent after being judged will just cease to exist,cut off from God and not join him in heaven.To me that is truly hell a perma ban from the creator.I could be totally wrong,but thats what I believe till I learn other wise.