Home-grown veg ruined by toxic fertiliser

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Have you ever had your "horse poop" tested for soluble salts? You may be surprised how it compares to miraclegrow.

Well composted manure from a reliable source is a very good soil amendment, but fresh manure is not. Leaf mold or compost works just as well in building soil structure.

Ash contains very little, if any nitrogen. Too much can harm plants, so use it sparingly.

Don't work the soil as the poster describes if it too wet. This is a great way to destroy soil structure.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Use miracle grow and shauster on your lawn or on your hedges. but better yet not at all.

Exactly so.

Cattle manure is really best for fuel and for generating energy as the Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, and Estonians do in great large plants ... and as the poorest of the poor do in India.

I can attest that one of the most powerful things I did was get into the soil cultures like you suggested. Dr. Paul is right if that is what he is advocating. I've literally seen plants grown under those proper soil conditions with the microrhyzia up to 50% larger in all aspects from the stem to the height to the fruit size and quantity.

It's initially expensive the the dividends are waaaaaaaay worth it. Soil is supposed to be alive, not the sterilized mess most farms make their soil into.

The vigor these plants display are obvious and impressive.

Ahem

Excuse me folks for a moment,

I would like to remind everyone that

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Let's stick to discussing the topic and not each other.

Thank you.

This video of Dr. Paul Stamets may be instructive along these lines for those unfamiliar with him:



(I think his idea of getting rid of ethanol and replacing it with fuel made from mushrooms is simply brilliant.)

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
Ahem

Excuse me folks for a moment,

I would like to remind everyone that

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Let's stick to discussing the topic and not each other.

Thank you.

I would like to remind everyone that posting knowingly false information is against the TOS of this site, and the thread title AND body information are both that. False.

sorry left out a step. you are correct. you should get the hose poop way before you prepare the bed. all manuer is supposed to be broken down and composted period. good call.

Nitrogen will kill plants in as little as 12 hours when over done. some plants can handle more even in different cultivars of the same species some less. Use nitrogen sparingly and very little during the flowering and fruiting.

I never said to keep the beds flooded while during the growing and fruiting, only as a way to establish a water table. this isn't the amazon where plants can grow in anoxia. I am not advocating over watering. Notice I talked about good airflow and draining soil and all that stuff about sand. loamy is best. good points though.

also if the plot you intend to plant in already has a good water table and is consistantly moist. than skip the flooding stage. BTW the flooding is before you plant anything in there. I think you may have mis understood what I was saying intially. it's all part of the prepping of the plot not the actual growing of the plants. soil should be constantly as moist as a nice moist chocolate cake. holds water which when the soil is squeezed in your hand will ooze water but will also crumble and break apart when mashed.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by BASSPLYR]

reply to post by forsakenwayfarer


It is a legitimate news submission, it seems you might have to address your concerns about the article with the publisher.

It is not a violation of ATS T&C.

Enough,

If you would like to discuss how you think the article is in error you are most welcome, further off-topic posts will be dealt with accordingly.

Thank you.

reply to post by JacKatMtn


The article is not in error, the mislabeling of a fertilizer when in fact it was a HERBICIDE is GROSSLY inaccurate. The poster also treating opinions as fact is a bit unsettling, but not against the rules.

FERTILIZER =/= HERBICIDE.

The chemical was designed to kill plants, and thusly did so. The issue therefore should not be put forth as though it is an issue of incorrectly marketed chemicals, SHOULD NOT be put forth as though it is an issue with DOW company as this was an INDUSTRIAL ACCIDENT and not something nearly comparable to any inferrences drawn by the OP and is obviously misleading other posters to believe FALSE INFORMATION.


In short, I won't take it up with the article because the article reports the facts correctly. This poster does not.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


I might also ad that amending a very high clay content soil with sand...is good way to make concrete.

Do you know that some fungicides are based on another fungus' toxic exhudates? Yes, that's a chemical. So, any substance that has the suffix "cide" on the end isn't all bad is it?

Mycorrhiza occur naturally in many soils. Along with a zillion other nasty and beneficial "bugs". SOME plants benefit from innoculation....not ALL plants. That's a very broad generalization.

Big thanks to Pellevoisin for posting on this topic & big thanks to Bassplyr for all the good gardening advice. I'm a gardener, primarily vegetables. It's very disheartening to read that these chemicals are being leached into gardening products thought to be "safe." I was happy a few weeks ago when I read the Canadian organic farmer one his case against Monsanto. Unfortunatelty, that's what it takes

In defense of the OP, the title of her thread is the title of the article.

I find it ludicrous that Dow sells a legitimate, tested product with clear instructions as to its' use. The product is used incorrectly (the hay was sold to be eaten by livestock, then the tainted manure caused the problem)...and everyone is then blaming Dow.

clay soil is a problem unto it's self for most veg gardens. some plant like it, but I try to not even plant in clay like soils generally. you can and when you do make sure to add organic amendment. hell I would recommend using tons of perilite if it were practical. it's a little pricy but if one wanted to go balls to the walls for their soil and spend the money. it would solve a lot of airation problems.

Mycrorrhiza is present in most out door soil that hasn't been slammed by mass agriculture. but more is always better. but you are right. mycrorrhiza can inhibit phosphorus uptake. Not all plants like it. but by and large it is very beneficial.


Never said everything that ends with "cide" is bad. Don't know where that statement came from or why you are bringing it up.


[edit on 16-7-2008 by BASSPLYR]

Commercial formulations - DowAgroSciences recently introduced three products that contain aminopyralid (Table 3). Milestone and Milestone VM both contain 2 lb/gal aminopyralid, but have slightly different markets. Milestone and ForeFront are both registered for use in pastures; ForeFront will provide broader spectrum control due to the addition of 2,4-D to this formulation. Milestone does not have any grazing or hay restrictions, whereas forage treated with ForeFront can not be harvested for hay within 7 days of application. Aminopyralid may persist in the manure and urine of animals feeding on treated forage, thus animals should be allowed to graze on untreated pastures for 3 days before being transferred to areas where sensitive broadleaf crops occur.

*ISU Weed Science*...This is the label.

The person who sold the manure is the responsible party.

It's a plant growth regulator, just like 2,4-D.....these compounds do not even effect animal cells. Paranoia, again???

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Sorry, the "cide" comment was directed at the OP...my mistake.

Perlite is a fantastic amendment for clay soil. Great recommendation. I use a 50/50 mix of perlite and leaf mold compost.

"If I can drain it...I can grow it"

Originally posted by mistressofspices
... big thanks to Bassplyr for all the good gardening advice.

Yes, indeed, big thanks to Bassplyr and Pellevoisine for all of the excellent information.

While this stuff getting into the food chain and ruining allotments, fields, and crops, what I am most worried about is the basic knowledge of how to work the land and work with land that farmers knew well not that long ago.

The small farmer and cottage gardener are heroes in my book.

It seems like the important lesson is to know your own land and to be intimately acquainted with the origin of anything you add to your own land.

The other thing is to get over our inner-Polyanna and realize that multi-national globalist chemical and agricultural companies exist to make money and truck-loads of it, and they have no altruistic principles behind their money-making ventures. They aren't friends of the Earth and need to be kept heavily regulated and in check (if not check mate).

Originally posted by starcraft

The person who sold the manure is the responsible party.

Nope.

There are plenty of responsible parties for this in the UK, but you've not named them yet.

Obviously, anything that can get into the food chain and cause this kind of damage makes it clear that the regulatory agencies did not do their due diligence in the approval of ForeFront.

And labels don't exculpate Dow or others from accountability in the Courts. I can imagine very interesting lawsuits going forward in the UK as well as at the Hague in due course.

reply to post by Queen Maeve



Yes, companies are in business to make money. This is termed "capitalism". It just so happens that these companies sell products to consumers (farmers, the demand side)...that are also in business to make money. One of many inputs are chemicals, like it or not. It's these farmers that are feeding the world on a limited amount of arable land.

This misinformation, disinformation and downright ignorance that surround big, bad chemical companies is astounding.

By the way, what's wrong with MY gardening advice? I feel left out. I have a degree in soil science, agronomy and horticulture.

reply to post by Queen Maeve



No offense but you're really not thinking clearly here. Don't let your preconcieved, uninformed notions sway your logic.

By your logic, if a person was killed by a handgun.....we should go after the company that makes the bullets., not the criminal who fired the gun. That's just silly.

just to be clear I have no comment on how herbacides and pestacides got into the manuer. I'm just talking about decent agricultural practices for small gardens and home grow ops (no not that kind)

also starcraft you do know a lot about botany and agriculture. people should be reading your posts. I just have no comment on pesticides in fertilizer.

I feel that salt is mucho bad too, and that although people can use some synthetically made ferts instead of natural ones. I still think it's better to go wit the old school methods. especially concerning flavor. bone meal, blood meal, guano, fish and kelp are the way to go in that respect and fructose, not thesynths in my opinion.

PS whats your thoughts on superthrive? better than other b-1 or just more of the same? personally I like it but I only use it on shocked plants and during the initial phase not during flowering when most plants are way done focusing on root growth.