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An Atlantean puzzle: No inhabitants of the Azores

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posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 



" Yet the Azores have no confirmed inhabitents until the Portuguese showed up in the 15th century? "


somethin' don't seem right about that time frame..


Ireland was inhabited 1000yrs before Our Lord showed up!

seems to me that the phonecians could have easily gotten there earlier. they did darn near everywhere else!

anyways, for me, there are bigger fish to fry than atlantis. I think if it was real, then maybe it was in

the 1st earth age. we are in the 2nd earth age and we got a lot of things to come together on and

I think atlantis can wait. Altho if something huge was found out, I'd love to hear about it...




posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 08:59 PM
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Howdy Toasted

It would seem the Phoenicians nor anyone else got there before the Portuguese, or more correctly, left no trace that they did.





posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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Hanslune,
I have been trying to find that translation of the dialogues, but have been unsucessful, so far.
I'll keep trying.

Ok,
For those who keep insisting that the native americans were atlantis,




The Olmecs although advanced in some areas, they were still 3000 years behind the mediteranian basin civilizations.
They did do some amazing things, the first written language in the new world. They invented the zero, as a place holder in the "long count calendar", before anyone else.
They passed on their spritual beliefs and patheon to several subsequent central american cultures.
Rubber
Here's what they didnt do.
They didnt have the wheel, they didnt use metals other than gold and silver, they didnt use draft animals and they didnt build any water craft more advanced than a dugout canoe.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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Heres a good question...Why are Russian and American subs always in this area?I heard several reasons.But not the actual truth.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by alienstar
 



why don't ya be a sport, and join the navy/subs....
..



c'mon, 4 years for your budz here @ ats ain't a lot to ask for...



just think, they got great food too..



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by toasted
 


Ha i'm a little to old to be joining the Navy.I probably wouldn't mind the food anyways..can't be any worse then having a gf that can't cook.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by punkinworks
 


If there water craft were so un-seaworthy, then why the giant seaport at Tihuanaco?

Hanslune, i have heard about (somewhere, not sure where) a story of a monastary on a "giant island" that sat around/on the Azores. One day, the island disappeared. A supply ship showed up, and it wasn't there. the water had something different about it (i can't recall).

As well, there have been chinese anchors found off Brazil. The Chinese travelled trans-atlantic.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 06:51 AM
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Howdy Hanslune,

those are some nice maps there. But the one Im looking for, looked a little bit more like this:





Similar also to the medieval map associated with Kircher:





If there ever was a country in the atlantic that "sank" I find it more likely that we are talking about this plateau that used to be above water and is now below sea level - the azore islands only being the uppermost tip of a former mountaineous area.

But the azores deserve more detailed archaeological research for a whole other reason: It would be these islands that would likely be a stopping point for any pre-middle-ages transatlantic contact.



[edit on 19-7-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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If there water craft were so un-seaworthy, then why the giant seaport at Tihuanaco?


Hans: That's easy, no seaport there. Its about seven km from lake Titicaca. There is evidence that the city was once a port, having been positioned right on the earlier shoreline of the lake. One of these wharves is big enough to accommodate hundreds* of ships."

*Sounds impressive - but the ships they are taking about are the small one man reed boats. So one does have a lake port dated to around 3200 BP





Hanslune, i have heard about (somewhere, not sure where) a story of a monastary on a "giant island" that sat around/on the Azores. One day, the island disappeared. A supply ship showed up, and it wasn't there. the water had something different about it (i can't recall).


Hans: St Brendan has a story about landing on a whale. I'm not familar with that tale, it does sound familar thou. Look at one of the Celtic or Welsh mythlogical sites, they might have something on that.



As well, there have been chinese anchors found off Brazil. The Chinese travelled trans-atlantic.


Hans: AFAIK the Chinese didn't get to the Atlantic until modern times.



If you are referring to the claims of Gavin Menzies I can only say that you'd better to read When China Ruled the Seas: The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne, 1405-1433 by Louise Levathes. Gavin is mass of nonsense - to be kind

Comments on Gavin



“The evidence is just overwhelming.” In this article Bill Hartz takes a detailed look at some of Gavin Menzies "evidence" for a Chinese circumnavigation of the planet in the early 15th Century and concludes "We speculate Gavin had the dream first, and then went looking for evidence to prove it real, couldn't find any, so he just made it up."






[edit on 19/7/08 by Hanslune]



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Howdy Sky




If there ever was a country in the atlantic that "sank" I find it more likely that we are talking about this plateau that used to be above water and is now below sea level - the azore islands only being the uppermost tip of a former mountaineous area. But the azores deserve more detailed archaeological research for a whole other reason: It would be these islands that would likely be a stopping point for any pre-middle-ages transatlantic contact.


I've been reading about the Mid-atlantic ridge which led me to the Azores. It is interesting there were no people or animals on those islands. One would have thought it would be crawling with them, based on all the concepts and ideas of trans-atlantic travel and Atlantis. Its an interesting puzzle - right where there should be clear signs - there is nothing.

There has been a great deal of exploration around the various sea mounts etc. You can find info on that in the material that reject the 1974? claims of the Soviets of finding Atlantis.

If you cannot find it let me know and I'll search thru my saved files and find it.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Its an interesting puzzle - right where there should be clear signs - there is nothing.


Well, if you follow basic "atlantology" you know that all signs of civilization were said to be destroyed many thousands of years ago (if not tens of thousands of years ago).

Surely you´ve already read about this legend:

Carthaginians on the Azores

Any evidence of this whatsoever, in your opinion?



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Yes I had come across that before. It says it best in the last paragraph.




Is the "statue" of Ponta do Marco evidence of a Carthaginian voyage? Highly unlikely. Are the coins evidence? It is now impossible to say. Yet explaining away the statue and the coins begs the question: Could the Carthaginians have reached Corvo or the Americas? Most scholars now reject the idea, but by the eighth century B.C. at the latest, Phoenician ships were regularly going from Tyre and Sidon to the trading station at Mogador, a distance of more than 2,000 miles. Sailors who did that were perfectly capable of going farther. Mogador, an island off the coast of Morocco, is located just where the Canary Current starts west, just where the Columbus route to the Americas leaves the African coast. If the Azores were found in antiquity, shouldn't there be evidence of the fact there? Not necessarily, as there was no native population with which to trade. Stops for water, like the one Columbus made, would likely have left no trace.


Until something is found early visitors to the Azores will remain an idea, like the idea of Polynesians making it to SA, what was given a big boost by finding the evidence of a Polynesian chicken in SA.

More money, more time, more people, but given the lack of pottery, habitations etc. It doesn't look good for the it having been found before the Portuguese got there.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


That was the rumor i heard about them knowing about Atlantis off the coast there found by a Soviet sub.You have any info on this?



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Not subs

Quote: da story....




On May 21, 1979 an interesting article was published in the New York Times. Soviet oceanographic expeditions to the Atlantic Ampere Seamount made some extraordinary discoveries of ruins, destroyed by lava, and also photographed them. The pictures (taken by Vladimir Marakuyev) and the findings were reported by the deputy Director of the Soviet Academy of Science's Institute of Oceanography, Professor Aksyonove. The pictures were taken in 1974, when the Russian research ship was exploring the ocean surface near the Horseshoe Archipelago, approximately 300 miles West of Gibraltar. On the Ampere Seamount, they found at a depth of around 200 feet, stone walls of up to 5 feet high and a width of 2.5 feet. Also a stone staircase with five clearly visible steps was discovered, leading to a stone platform connected to another staircase. Since the date the pictures were taken, other oceanographic expeditions have confirmed the findings, and even found more structures of the same kind over a wider area."


da reality


In his article, Mr. Vandecruys stated about the sunken
city to have been found on the Ampere Seamount:

"Since the date the pictures were taken,
other oceanographic expeditions have
confirmed the findings, and even found
more structures of the same kind
over a wider area. But even though on the
eastern side of the Atlantic, this is
still not the Canary Archipelago of course!"

However, the claim that the findings of Dr. Petrovsky /
Vladimir Marakuyev have been found by later investigators
is completely false. The Ampere Seamount has been studied
in great detail since 1978, and nobody has found any of
the ruins reported in Anonymous (1978, 1981). Papers,
i.e. Bogdanov et al. (1984), Khun et al. (1993, 1995),
Litvin et al. (1982), and Marova (1988), have reported
on the results of detailed studies of the surface of
the Ampere Seamount. Also, the top of the Ampere Seamount
has been intensively stuied by biologists investigating
the reefs from on its summit. None of these studies has
found anything remotely resembling ancient ruins,
including stone walls, staircases, or platforms. From
the number and level of detail of this published
research, a person can confidently conclude that enough
detailed research has been done about the Ampere Seamount
that if the submerged ruins were real, they would have
been found by now. It is quite clear that these ruins
don't exist.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:07 AM
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There are 2 fundamental problems with almost all Atlantis theories:

1) There is no evidence of any bronze age culture existing anywhere in the world 6,000 years before the start of the bronze age (c3,000BC), let alone in Greece.

2) Why would any culture outside of the Mediterranean invade the Mediterranean and lose a war with Athens? No explanation has been given for this important aspect of the story, least of all by those suggestion location of Atlantis in places like the Americas.

It's quite clear that the time frame given by Plato is inaccurate. Since we know that aspect of the story to be wrong, we cannot trust any other aspects either.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Essan
2) Why would any culture outside of the Mediterranean invade the Mediterranean and lose a war with Athens? No explanation has been given for this important aspect of the story, least of all by those suggestion location of Atlantis in places like the Americas.

Well that's the thing: you can imagine whatever you want fill the gap.

What if "Athens" wasnt actually Platos Athens? If you paint a picture of Atlantis as an "advanced" and "magical" civilization 9000 years, why not make a proto-Greek civilization that dominated the entire central and eastern Med of equal technological prowess? This civilization is of course where later Greeks got their stories of magical creatures, such as satyrs and centaurs: they must have helped the proto-Greeks defeat the evil Atlantians


(sidenote: we can also say the Atlanteans looked like elves. Everybody loves killing elves)

[edit on 20-7-2008 by merka]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Howdy Essan and Merka

Yep a staggering lack of evidence. Imagination and belief have filled in the gaps.

With T & C as your only ancient source you're pretty much in an intellectual cul de sac. No sign of people or mammals on the Azores and I'm checking now on Madiera. Odd considering the mind set that Atlanteans might have been there or travelled there.

It just doesn't work - I had mentioned before that I've notice more and more Atlantis believers putting the mysterious land in different dimensions, times (way before us or way after) or on other planets. The influence of no evidence is "marinating" the imaginations of some.



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