Child bride gets divorced after rape, beatings

Child bride gets divorced after rape, beatings

www.cnn.com

SANAA, Yemen (CNN) -- Nujood Ali is 10 years old, but she already has been married and divorced. It was an arranged marriage in which she said a husband three times her age routinely beat and raped her.

"When I got married, I was afraid. I didn't want to leave home. I wanted to stay with my brothers and sisters and my mom and dad," she said, speaking to CNN with the permission of her parents.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Usually I am one to stick up for Muslims. This time though they are on their own. This is just sick. This is not 1400 years ago, this is now. As a parent I cannot understand how someone could do this to their child. That is all this girl is, a child. A parent is supposed to do everything they can to protect the child, not sell them off to abuse and rape.

"When I heard, my heart burned for her; he wasn't supposed to sleep with her," said Nujood's mother, who asked not to be identified.

But, initially, she also told her daughter she could not help her -- that she belonged to her husband now.

Nujood's father, Ali Mohammed Ahdal, said he is angry about what happened to his daughter. "He was a criminal, a criminal. He did hateful things to her," he said. "He didn't keep his promise to me that he wouldn't go near her until she was 20."

Sorry this is just all too messed up.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I agree with that sentiment.

Generally, though not always, I come down on the side of the culture and the behaviour with in that culture. This ain't one of those times...

This was barbaric. Ten year olds should be in school. Ten year olds should be doing many, many things that don't include getting married, getting beaten, most especially getting raped.

Culture? I advocate for different cultures generally. But this particular facet of culture, and not just in Yemeni, but all over the world; needs fixing.

This is one of those issues about Islam that can't be defended with the usual "this happens because someone has perverted or misunderstood the Koran" defenses. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, so if your "Supreme Moral Authority" is a pedophile, there's some precident for the rest of your followers to at least rationalize the behavior in their own minds (not trying to say all Muslims are pedophiles.)

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
This is one of those issues about Islam that can't be defended with the usual "this happens because someone has perverted or misunderstood the Koran" defenses. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, so if your "Supreme Moral Authority" is a pedophile, there's some precident for the rest of your followers to at least rationalize the behavior in their own minds (not trying to say all Muslims are pedophiles.)

dont forget most muslims see nothing wrong , infact she is lucky she was not stoned to death for leaving her husband...

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
This is one of those issues about Islam that can't be defended with the usual "this happens because someone has perverted or misunderstood the Koran" defenses. Mohammed himself was a pedophile, so if your "Supreme Moral Authority" is a pedophile, there's some precident for the rest of your followers to at least rationalize the behavior in their own minds (not trying to say all Muslims are pedophiles.)

You are right, at least about the misunderstanding the Koran part, this is about parents not thinking about the best interests and welfare of their child. You would think that if someone was offering to marry your 10 year old, warning bells would go off in your head.

As far as the father whining about this guy breaking an agreement that stated he would not touch her for 10 years...YOU SOLD YOUR DAUGHTER INTO A MARRIAGE WHEN SHE WAS 10, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT WHAT HE DOES TO YOUR LITTLE GIRL!!! (Yes I am yelling, I hope the idiot hears me). It is cases like this make me wish the G8 would get all thier forces together and local culture be dam,ned, we are bringing some updates to these backwater civilizations.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


As you can see from my post above, I'm not defending this...

However, Muhammed, by the standards of his time, wasn't a pedophile. By my standards? Yes. Not by his, or his times. If you check back through the histories and letters of the times you'll find many an instance of "child brides". Lifespans were much shorter, etc...

reply to post by Rook1545


were on our own?
you even look at where these things take place and what sort of society?
these people marry their kids off since they live in poverty,
its also done in India, thats right none Muslims aswell.

so it costs the family less to get rid of their kids when they are young

en.wikipedia.org...

In a child marriage, children, or even infants, are married. The married children often live apart with their respective families until well after puberty. Child marriages are typically made for economic or political reasons. In rural India and several other countries, the requirement of providing a dowry for daughters is generally acknowledged to be a contributing factor to female infanticide.

other sources

www.pardesiservices.com...

google

www.google.co.uk...:en-GBfficial&hs=W9T&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q =india+arranged+marriage+kids&spell=1

before anyone asks why i used india as an example
its the first that came to mind.

this is done in alot of countries.

and i wouldnt put it on faith straight away.

as much respect i have for you i didnt expect you to jump head first without looking at the wider picture.

i wont go into the prophet (peace be apon him) and the details on that as enough members have explained that already in detail,

i wont repeat my self for the posters after you as i know what i say to them will fall on deaf ears and not worth it.

reply to post by bodrul


I guess I should worded it better. I didn't mean that the entire Muslim nation was on it's own. You know my posts bodrul, I like Muslims, I stick up for them when it is warranted. I just meant that, this time I am not going to stand up for them just because they are Muslim. I would like to say this is an isolated incident, but it isn't, and it is not just Muslims doing it (as you pointed out).

AS a philosophical aside, do we hear about it more just because they are Muslim and they are the group we are supposed to hate right now, or is it because it is more prevalent with them. I think it is the first one.

reply to post by Rook1545


Leave it be to ignorance to attribute this to Islam. The west has absolutely no clue about what arranged marriage is about. To them, they think the arrangement is when two people are forced to get married prior to ever meeting each other.

In Islam, it's different. The parents of the two will find someone who will likely be the suitor for one another, then the two will meet and see if they can be right for each other. If they do not like the person picked, then they will ask their parents to find another.

What happened here was because of culture, not Islam. You can argue all you want that this is Islam in origin, and yet it's not, unless you can quote from the Quran that says it's ok to rape.

The father even said, "He was a criminal, a criminal. He did hateful things to her," he said. "He didn't keep his promise to me that he wouldn't go near her until she was 20."

If it were part of Islam, then why would he say something like that, if he was ok with it?

One more thing, since I know the people who have a false understanding of Islam, who try to defame it through threads like this are predominantly Christian (and no, I'm not trying to put all Christians in a bad light). Joseph became Mary's husband at the time of Jesus's birth, and yet Mary was only 12.

reply to post by DJMessiah


While what you are saying is true and while it was a different situation centuries ago, with this practice being socially acceptible, you are missing a clear difference. Christians, by and large, don't hold anyone other than Jesus Christ up as being their moral compass. Divine morality doesn't change, at least it isn't supposed to change for Islamic, Christian, and Judaic believers as God (the same God for all 3 religions) is unchanging. This is where a dramatic difference occurs between the religions. Mohammed is upheld as being God's prophet and the ultimate moral authority as it relates to God and God's will. The Koran talks of Mohammed's fondness of his youngest (child) bride Aisha and how Mohammed believed it to be divine guidance that drew him to her, both sexually and emotionally. This causes a quandry for Islam which is at the root of this article... if Mohammed is believed to be the ultimate moral yardstick, then anything he did must be considered to be moral and above reproach and, therefore, should be set as a goal for modern Muslims.

www.wnd.com...

Looks like some of his followers are doing exactly that.

Originally posted by Rook1545
Usually I am one to stick up for Muslims. This time though they are on their own. This is just sick. This is not 1400 years ago, this is now. As a parent I cannot understand how someone could do this to their child. That is all this girl is, a child. A parent is supposed to do everything they can to protect the child, not sell them off to abuse and rape.

"... he wasn't supposed to sleep with her," said Nujood's mother, ... (Her father said) "He didn't keep his promise to me that he wouldn't go near her until she was 20."

In case anyone missed it, reread what her mother AND her father said. The guy wasn't supposed to sleep with her until she was 20.

Not that I agree with child brides, but I feel this article is being used to say "Look! Muslims are child rapists!", when the reality is much, much more complex than that.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
reply to post by Rook1545

 

In Islam, it's different. The parents of the two will find someone who will likely be the suitor for one another, then the two will meet and see if they can be right for each other. If they do not like the person picked, then they will ask their parents to find another.

The father even said, "He was a criminal, a criminal. He did hateful things to her," he said. "He didn't keep his promise to me that he wouldn't go near her until she was 20."

If it were part of Islam, then why would he say something like that, if he was ok with it?

Those quotes are contradictory. If the parents picked the guy and were ok with him, how can they come back and say he is a criminal? THEY PICKED HIM!

I have said I don't want to make this a blanket Muslim bashing statement. I am trying to say that if this was not a part of Muslim culture and tradition, it would not have happened. You can substitute Indian or whatever for Muslim, the truth remains if it was not part of the culture it would not have happened.

Originally posted by Rook1545
Those quotes are contradictory. If the parents picked the guy and were ok with him, how can they come back and say he is a criminal? THEY PICKED HIM!

Did you read how I said it was their cultural tradition to perform that type of marriage, not their religion? They can come back and say he's a criminal because he didn't wait till she was 20, as was their agreement. Did you even read the article?

I am trying to say that if this was not a part of Muslim culture and tradition, it would not have happened.

It's not part of Muslim culture. It's part of a culture that existed prior to Islam and spread through Africa and the M.E. If the marriage practice has existed and practiced before Islam, then why is it attributed to Islam?

[edit on 16-7-2008 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Did you read how I said it was their cultural tradition to perform that type of marriage, not their religion? They can come back and say he's a criminal because he didn't wait till she was 20, as was their agreement. Did you even read the article?

Of course I read it. My point is that if you are oh so willing to marry off your daughter at 10, you really have no concern for her welfare and can't really be outraged when the guy you gave her to decides to do to her what he had in mind from the beginning.

The thing about religion, is that it is tied to culture. The only time that relationship is broken is when the religion moves to a different culture, such as coming to North America where generally accepted practices are different. A colliery to that is when people move and carry on those traditions. Such as people in Britain or Canada continuing with arranged marriages. Now do you think the cause of that is the culture or the religion? And if it is the culture, why do they always claim religious persecution when they are rebuked for the practices?

It's not part of Muslim culture. It's part of a culture that existed prior to Islam and spread through Africa and the M.E. If the marriage practice has existed and practiced before Islam, then why is it attributed to Islam?

[edit on 16-7-2008 by DJMessiah]

It is very possible that the religion adopted the cultural practices. This would not be the first time. Take the communion ceremony that Christians practice. That was part of the Jewish culture and Passover. The Christians have adopted that cultural practice as a part of their religion.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


You haven't read what other members said about Mohammads "pedophile" status have you? Back in those days when life spans were shorter and what not, a girl was basically considered a woman when she started menstrating. So in those times, it was not pedophelia.

Nowdays life spans are longer and we put more value into educating our children and keeping them home longer. Therefore they are now still considered a child long after they have started menstrating.

Nujood's father, Ali Mohammed Ahdal, said he is angry about what happened to his daughter. "He was a criminal, a criminal. He did hateful things to her," he said. "He didn't keep his promise to me that he wouldn't go near her until she was 20."

What the hell is wrong with people? Ok he promised you he wasn't going to touch your 10 year old daughter, so it's ok to marry her off to him? What kind of sick weirdo wants to marry a 10 year old? Didn't that raise any kind of flag to the parents?

I know we have different values in the west but people are people. I think that if we are to follow Muslim custom this sick pedophile and the daughters dad need a duel stoning!

MOD NOTE;

This is a contentious issue.
The culture which is under discussion here is alien to most posters who will be adding to this thread.

Please do remain civil and post in an intelligent manner as you add to this thread.

But when catholic priests/Christian fathers...

Sometimes you just wonder how people can be so close minded and bigoted that they see no wrong in their own societies while laying into other faiths and people. It's not that i find this particular cultural 'trait' acceptable but i am confident that it's not something that many parents would do to their children unless their socio-economic situation drives them to. Arranged marriages are most certainly not unique to Muslim nations and if anything it spread like so many other Hellenic ( later Roman) customs did.

PS: I have the same level alternating levels of disdain/respect for people of all faiths as i know they are all human and have fallen victim to the same general deceptions.

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX


I somehow doubt that anyone that is excoriating these people for allowing their daughter to fall into this monsters hands ignore the same thing happening amongst catholics.

No matter the culture, it's a reprehensible practise that is centuries out of date...IMNSHO.