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Originally posted by saint4God
Okay, well, what started off as a nice gesture thread has turned into yet another pointless melee and Christian-bashing. While we have those who tank up on Haterade :w: and make baseless judgements and accusations about Christians, I shall slip off quitely in search of meaningful exchange.
Thank you Thread Originator for your kind sincerity.
Pray, train, study, play,
God bless.
[edit on 18-7-2008 by saint4God]
...How many Christians here have had a mystic God experience, where they saw the light that "God" was composed of, and saw that that light was emanating from everyone and everything, including yourself? How many who claim to be true of the Christian Faith know EXACTLY what God is composed of? How many of you are actually experiencing God...
I think that all things should be able to teach us something... and even evil has that which is good (God) about it, because how would you know what God is without knowing the Devil.
"What ISN'T God?"
Do Christians, in general, not believe that we all are one? If we all are one, then there can't truly be any distinction between right and wrong, God or the Devil, humans or animals, Jesus or average Joe.
It would have to all have the same potential or else it couldn't hold form.
Many articles have been written about the post-Christian era.
There's a reason it exists.
People are smart enough to see the incongruencies of the Christian faith --
Holding onto outdated theological constructs is not going to save Christianity.
Do I need to "qualify" myself in order for me to be proven right?
Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I see some Christians in here believing that they are exactly right, and the word ends there... but where does that leave room for evolution of the soul and of ideas and of the very things that God created? Would God not want his creations to evolve into higher and higher forms of thought? Would God create one book, stating all the laws of what man should think and believe, and then simply be done?
Have you ever considered that God himself may be evolving right along with us, and that a lot of what was said way back in the first three centuries AD might not be what is needed now?
If you don't believe in evolution, then I don't see any way that any arguments could ever be resolved. We might as well not exist if we are to be condemned, if not for one book and one book only. What good is knowledge and learning, in that case?
I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Peace my friend.
Originally posted by Matrix1111
And the arrogance of Christians continues to upset two thirds of the world that isn't Christian. Why? Because the true teachings of Jesus have never come off the stainglass windows of church chapels. Christians are just happy in their assumed superiority and figure Jesus will fix the problems of the world. Christians can just continue to reap their blessings at the expense of the underprivileged. Indigenous peoples of the world love the way Christian missionaries were used to colonize the world and enslave the masses into servitude. Muslims love the way Christians have marginalized their cultural value and installed corrupt dictators that have exploited the Muslim people and kept them impoverished. The list of injustices goes on and on. And why? Because Christians reject James' "works not faith alone" teaching. So they just rest on their laurels thinking the world should love them. How narrowminded and arrogant is that?
Well, before I actually start insulting you, I better go.
:-)
Well, before I actually start insulting you, I better go.
Let's agree to follow the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,"
even though those who do not believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God have no reason to follow such a rule.
If someone were to say to you, "If I can misinterpret any one of your statements, then you are lying or in error," then, what would your hope of communicating with that person be? This is exactly the attitude of the liberal toward the Word of God as found in the Bible.
No wonder liberals cannot make a connection with the God of the Bible.
Every single argument that has ever claimed Biblical error has followed the deceptive pattern just mentioned. All of those arguments have been shown to be bogus, but the Bible stands.
An error or conflict in Scripture would need to be absolute. It would need to involve no assumptions. A situation would have to exist where there was no set of assumptions that could possibly show that there was no error or conflict. Some would say that this would eliminate all possible errors, but this is not true. If there were real errors in the Bible, then it would be very easy to find them using these rules. Science books, by this rule, should be and are replaced often because of the errors that exist in them.
From a Naturalistic or Materialistic world-view:
The correct way to interpret a statement, in the natural or material, is to say, "I don't know about that about that particular point," whenever a statement has any possibility of being interpreted in many ways. If there is any way or if there are any assumptions that could make the statement a non-error, then the naturalist, if he or she is honest, would not claim that there was an error. If the Naturalist or Materialist were actually honest, they would further admit that there may be scenarios of which they are not aware.
Virtually every Naturalistic/Materialistic claim of biblical error involves a Naturalist/Materialist who is claiming that his/her interpretation is the only possible interpretation and they always are making assumptions. Without these assumptions, the supposed error disappears.
From a rationalized Christian world-view:
The correct way to interpret a statement, from a rationalized Christian world-view, is to say, "I don't know about that particular point, but the Bible says of itself that it is without error," whenever a statement has any possibility of being interpreted in many ways. If there is any way or if there are any assumptions that could make the statement a non-error, then the rationalistic Christian, if he or she is honest, would not claim that there was an error.
The problem is that the rationalizing Christians tend to add the suppositions that are products of their own minds to the Bible. Then, they find that God is not like their suppositions, and they foall into doubt. Without these assumptions, supposed errors always disappear.
The second part of the answer has to do with the very necessary safe guards that God built into the Scriptural church order, the Scriptural church order that most of the church chooses not to follow.
Every Christian is aware of the deceptiveness of the human mind and how It is very easy to interpret Scripture by the human mind and think that a revelation from God is taking place. When revelation is given, it is natural for the human mind to try to fill in that which has not been revealed.
Whether they rationalize their speculation or spiritualize their speculation, they fill in from the human mind and blunt God's Sword. This is one of the main causes for doctrinal debates between Christians and it is actually a sign of spiritual immaturity.
The order of God, which is clearly given in the Bible, shows the wisdom of God in creating an order that, among many other benefits, provides the benefit of guarding against division because of speculative doctrine.
Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Let me just ask the true Christian believers in here something. I'm not going to condescend or belittle in any way, and this may come off as me being that way, but it is merely a series of questions.
How many Christians here have had a mystic God experience, where they saw the light that "God" was composed of, and saw that that light was emanating from everyone and everything, including yourself? How many who claim to be true of the Christian Faith know EXACTLY what God is composed of? How many of you are actually experiencing God, as opposed to having been taught about God, and thinking that the information presented to you is enough?
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Matrix1111
But understanding that God holds together the universe does not mean that you understand God.
I'm not talking about Orthodox Christianity.
I have seen too much to take the Bible literally.
I'm talking about the path of Gnostic Christian Mysticism.
Good questions. Apparently the "true Christians" here haven't had such experiences.
Many articles have been written about the post-Christian era. There's a reason it exists. People are smart enough to see the incongruencies of the Christian faith -- if not all religious faiths.
Holding onto outdated theological constructs is not going to save Christianity. Its decline is going to continue. It's inevitable. Yes, we are entering a new age. The old age is phasing itself out. Do I need to "qualify" myself in order for me to be proven right? Or do you just need to open your eyes and begin investigating the subject on your own?
Holding onto outdated theological constructs is not going to save Christianity.
Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Saint4God, I want you to stay here... and I think everyone here should keep a cool head.
Originally posted by dunwichwitch
If you don't believe in evolution, then I don't see any way that any arguments could ever be resolved.
Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Unless you are a spiteful pessimist, you cannot deny the beauty and truth in much of what Jesus taught. You could say it was all made up, and that Jesus never existed... but then you're missing the message, and instead shooting the messenger, and that is the definition of ignorance, my friends.
Thank you and peace.
Originally posted by dunwichwitch
you cannot deny the beauty and truth in much of what Jesus taught.