It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

First Guantanamo video released

page: 6
3
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by CallMeMaury
Clearly, we do our own rights a disservice and more speedily ensure their dissolution by not affording them to our enemies.

No, that is a bunch of hogwash. One has nothing to do with the other.
This is why our Constitution is the U.S. Constitution and not the 'World Constitution'.
Look, prisoners are given basic human rights but they are not afforded the rights of U.S. citizens. Get over it!




posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:11 PM
link   
I can see both sides of this even though I was really angry.A soldier died that is a complete tragedy and a waste of life but thsi case hinges on th age of the perp who was a child and was still a child in Gitmo.Are all you posters who want him punished telling me you were fully compus mentis when you were in your early teens?Of course not.Why do you think minors cannot enter into contracts?If thsi was a thirty year old man that had thrown the grenade I would obvioulsy have less sympathy .But treating kids like this is going to have the Jihadidts strapping on the explosive belts and heading for the naerest legitamate target in their eyes.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:19 PM
link   
reply to post by WhatTheory
 


I understand your point. You are summarizing the law as it currently applies. (Although this point has been argued a great deal.)

What are your views on "innocent until proven guilty?"

I think it is a basic precept of justice and I think it should be afforded to everyone. Regardless of current laws and traditions:

Do you personally believe these people should not be afforded the right to be innocent proven guilty?



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by CallMeMaury
Do you personally believe these people should not be afforded the right to be innocent proven guilty?

Yes.
Enemies caught on the battlefield IMO should not be afforded the rights of U.S. citizens. It's that simple.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:45 PM
link   
reply to post by WhatTheory
 


Do you think our soldiers should be afforded rights if caught on the battlefield by our enemies?

I am not asking if our soldiers ARE afforded rights by our enemies, I am asking if you think they SHOULD be afforded rights by our enemies.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by CallMeMaury
Do you think our soldiers should be afforded rights if caught on the battlefield by our enemies?

Of course I do.
And we are affording the Gitmo detainees basic human rights and that is not in question. What is in question is if they should be afforded U.S. civilian rights. And the answer to that is no.

Let me add that even though we do give these terrorist basic human rights plus some, what happens when our soldiers are captured? They get beheaded, burned and hung from a bridge.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:54 PM
link   
reply to post by WhatTheory
 


I understand that of course. But you have to admit, that right now these people are in limbo. We have to do something with them.

What do you propose we do with them if we don't give them trials and convict or acquit them?

Should they be held indefinitely without trial?

Should they be executed without a trial?



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by CallMeMaury
What do you propose we do with them if we don't give them trials and convict or acquit them?

We are giving them a trial. I think military tribunals are beginning this month.


Should they be executed without a trial?

They should have been shot on the battlefield. This would have saved us from all this hoopla over nothing.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 03:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by WhatTheory

They should have been shot on the battlefield. This would have saved us from all this hoopla over nothing.

It certainly would have. I don't pretend to know how the military should conduct all its affairs and I too am upset about these matters.

I just feel, if we don't vigorously defend our rights in all cases, and in this instance I believe that should include giving these detainees the due process afforded a citizen. We should apply our rights to everyone. Are not all men created equal?

Either way, it has been great discussing this with you.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 03:10 PM
link   
reply to post by WhatTheory
 


Whattheory, what the heck are you afraid of when I make a point, pointing out how you "claim" that you answered all my questions, but when I post the questions that I notice you didn't answer you decide not to responf to them. I've noticed all you do is take little snipetts of what people say and twist there words to fit what you want.

Give me an answer to the questions I posted previously, or are you afriad?
I think the fact remains that i flushed you out as being a shill, a charlatan, a sell out, you sold out on your country, but for what? You are one of the biggest threats to this country right now, but at what price?

I think that sense you never bring anything good to the table, you should be banned, all you do is twist peoples words and start arguements, if you love to fight so much why don't you just join the UFC or something.

I'm done talking to a mindless zombie for a political party, when you feel good and ready to join the patriots and real americans let me know.

-Jimmy



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 03:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by CallMeMaury We should apply our rights to everyone. Are not all men created equal?


I cant jump on this train. Why should the US GIVE our rights to NON US citizens. They don't contribute to the freedom of this country. They don't care about the sacrifices made by millions to uphold and defend the land we call home. They aren't a part of OUR system...so why include them as such.

I agree they deserve basic rights. Food, Water, Shelter, and then other things can be allowed, such as religious rights (as long as they aren't over the top), a book, etc.....I wouldn't expect and KNOW I wouldn't recieve the rights afoorded to me if captured...I just hope they even feed me 3 times a day the way we do our detainees...not to mention I hope I don't get put infront of a camera and beheaded...if I'm lucky they will do to me what we did at AG...make me get naked and pose is goofy positions...that i can handle...
..loosing my head...not so much

[edit on 7/17/2008 by rcwj75]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:05 PM
link   
One side kills and it's "war". The other side kills and its "crime". Someone points a finger at a kid and he is guilty.

Well at least he got interrogated by properly educated personel.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by BlueEyes]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 10:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
Whattheory, what the heck are you afraid of when I make a point, pointing out how you "claim" that you answered all my questions, but when I post the questions that I notice you didn't answer you decide not to responf to them.

Apparently you cannot read nor comprehend because I answered all your dumb questions. Or it could be you just don't like my answers.


I've noticed all you do is take little snipetts of what people say and twist there words to fit what you want.

Look, I'm sure you are aware the Mod's don't like excessive quoting. And your posts are long and full of nothing but babbling.
I quote the entire sentence of the pertinent part of the post.
So please get your facts straight.



I think the fact remains that i flushed you out as being a shill, a charlatan, a sell out, you sold out on your country, but for what?

Ok, you keep believing that.

This only shows how delusional you are.


I think that sense you never bring anything good to the table, you should be banned

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. And of course you would want me banned. You cannot handle people with a opinion different from yours. Are you a marxist or something?


I'm done talking to a mindless zombie for a political party

Good, then I should not see you replying to me anymore.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 10:59 AM
link   
reply to post by WhatTheory
 


Since you aske d a question, I will do you the justice of replying.
No, I'm not a Marxist, are you? All you do is attack people who believe differently than you, so I guess that makes of even? Nope, the reason why I tell people why I think they're wrong is because even the most simplest of poeple can figure out that war is wrong, killing is wrong, doing bad things to others is wrong. So if you have a problem with that, then you need to see a phyciatrist becaue you obviously cannot differenciate between right and wrong. I do not support what terroists do (know matter who they are with, Islam, Christianity, CIA), i am a man wanting peace in the world, if everyone could just quit helping themselves and start helping otherss, then this would be a great place to live, you cannot kill terroism with a bullet, it's a mindset that will never die, the only way to kill terroism is by a change of heart and no force nomatter how aggressive and brutal it may be cannot change the heart. If we show love and kindness to those who do us wrong (Just like Jesus told us to do), then a change of heart will come, it may not be rapid, but it will last.

About the excessive quoting thing, I think it has to do with when you have a quote within a quote within a quote. THat is the only time points have been taken away from me considering the excessive quoting thing.

However, if you read, I made some points earlier that you didn't respond to (or could not argue agianst) and I actually reposted them and you still have not responded to them, it's easy to say I don't read something, but I would apreciate it if you directly respond to them, instead you quote some thing that you can spin so that you can say I'm a liberal (which I'm not, I've told you many times that I'm a Conservative Constitutionalist).

With the way you talk and act, you seem more like bill O' Rielly than and actual patriotic American. Mr. O' Rielly is a sell out to the NWO

-Jimmy



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
However, if you read, I made some points earlier that you didn't respond to (or could not argue agianst) and I actually reposted them and you still have not responded to them

Good lord man, instead of whinning like a little girl just come on out and ask me the question. Apparently you feel like I did not answer some dumb question and I think I did so just ask the question directly in your next post and I will be happy to answer it again. It's obvious I don't know what question you are refering to so just ask it.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:14 AM
link   
reply to post by BlueEyes
 


Lets get a few things straight with all this "Crime VS War thing...

1) What occured on 9-11 was an ACT of war, but with no founding country...but by a group of individuals who sought to bring destruction and mayhem (IE:Terrorists)...THAT makes it a crime...

2) We gave The Taliban like 48 hours (Not sure but close) to either hand over Bin Laden or suffer the consequences...they didn't, so we did. THAT was an act of war...

3) The persons who engaged us on the battlefield, whether they were Taliban or Foreign fighters, are soldiers and should be treated as such....BASIC human needs (Food, water and shelter)...which, BTW...is the ONLY thing the GC REALLY provides for POW's. The GC also deecries torture (As it should) but says NOTHING about being interrogated by any means other than physical abuse, which is against the GC.

4) This little sniveling idiot, which HIS parents hung out to dry, should be afforded the basics and THAT IS ALL!!!

5) This one is to SOLJAH: Obviously, you've never been to SERE or Survival School (I Have...the later...SERE is WAYYYY harder than Survival School...different techniques and all as well as other more "Punishing" things)...that video was an absolute JOKE...if Survival School OR SERE was like that, I would've thought it was a walk in the park...TRUST me SERE nor Survival School are walks in the park...they are 3 weeks of pure hell...but the thing with them both is YOU KNOW it's only training and you'll be done in 3 weeks...not so much with these yahoos...If you want to see what that is all about...look at the footage of our pilots and the brit pilots who were captured during Gulf War 1...YOU won't even know what to look for, but anyone who has been through the training can pick it up...

6) I'm not saying kill them all at GITMO...I'm sure that there are some guys in there who thought that they were doing what was right by their religion...forced to fight (Like GW1), etc...if there were War Crimes committed, then that should be dealt with utmost speed...unless we think there's more info we can glean from them, then keep them in the GITMO hotel for a while and see what pops up.

7) Everyone MUST remeber this, though...we treat the prisoners AAAALOT better then ANY other POW's since warfare began (Just ask the WWII Pow's that still survive)...but yet these "People" BEHEAD, BEAT and TRULY TORTURE their POW's...can you imagine the outcry if we responded in kind??? Why is it the US and GB are getting smashed about because of GITMO when EVERY POW that has fallen into the hands of these idiots has NEVER made it back alive or for that matter in one piece???



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:47 AM
link   
reply to post by WhatTheory
 


i'm not whining like a little girl, i'm showing everyone that you spin topics cause you know that I'm right and your wrong, but you still want to see the Communist dream come true (Yes, what you support is communism/marxism, where government is God, it's bad bad thing btw).

So here are the points which you have'nt adressed yet, which took up and were the central points of most of my different posts.

Spin away spider, spin away...

"This kid may have been wrongly accused, show me proof that says otherwise, the problem is that you most likely can't cause it's a matter of "National Securety", that means that any evidence that the gov doesn't want that could possibly show them doing wrong, is kept locked away. how's about all the survalence footage of the Pentagon hit that was confiscated? There have been many FOIA requests concerning the public release of that footage, they have never been able to get anymore than two of those videos out to the public, one of them shows nothing hitting the side of the wall, the other shows a small blue thing (much smaller than a comercial airliner) hitting the building. So even if we request security footage of detainees, we won't get it, why? because the gov does not want to release anything that could possibly drum up support for the up coming revolution that will happen soon. So let's just face it, we're never going to know if this kid was ever guilty of anything, you guy's are just poo flinging monkeys.
One of these days when your forced to comly with martial law you'll look back and see that us crazy CTer's were right."


(Concerning your accusation of me being a liberal which i've stated many times I'm not one, if I were i'd say so here is my response to your accusation)


"No, I'm not, I don't like Liberals, I also don't like conservatives, it's this "football team" mentality conserning both parties I can't stand, the whole Democrat/Republican thing was created just to devide us, see what a marvelous job it has done? Because of the sports like nature people stoop to support there team nomatter wheather they're right or wrong. I don't have a team, I don't like sports, I'm more of a problem solver, not a problem maker. Even though I believe that our votes don't matter, we have a poor choice in canidates eh? We have a Liberal (McCain) and we have a Marxist (Obama), my uber conservative republic mom and dad agree with me on that. So I guess if I were a Liberal as you claim I am, wouldn't I vote for McCain? Honestly dude, admit it, you're a sucker for sports, you're a big sports fan. You've picked your team."


(Here you called me something along the lines of being a Liberal tool and this was my response)


"I'm a tool? Ya mean I'm some guy who is used by others to achieve and objective or goal? Lol, yeah right, I'm the guy who hasn't chosen a football team, I'm a free thinker, you're the tool, root for your team (the NeoCons) all the time and harass others if they say something you don't agree with, so why did I come after you guys? I'm sick and tired of your propaganda, your obvious spinning of points people make about the party you're for, you sir are just a big of a spindocter as Bill O' Rielly."


It's easy to just say somone is this or that when they ask you tough questions instead of answering them. THat is what you do when I ask questions and post points like the above ones which you have doged, yet were a major part of my posts and the central points, all you could do is twist my words and spin little things.

-Jimmy

[edit on 18-7-2008 by jimmyjackblack]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:51 AM
link   
reply to post by jimmyjackblack
 

So what is your question?

Please, just give me one sentence which contains your question. You babble so much, your question must be hidden.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:56 AM
link   
reply to post by PlaneIP
 


So are you saying two wrongs make a right?

Lets see
Wrong+Wrong=Wrong
the reason why is cause no right has been done, all that has been done is wrong.

Right+Wrong=Wrong
Right had been done, but in return wrong was commitid, therefore wrong was the outcome, but only the party that added the wrong in instead of a right is the one wrong.

Wrong+Right=Right
Wrong was done, but instead of adding another wrong, the situation was change and a right was added in it's place, making the party that did the wrong, wrong, and the party that did the right, right.

So how do two wrongs still make a right, it's like subtracting from subtraction, you eventually end up with a negative number.

-Jimmy



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 12:03 PM
link   
reply to post by WhatTheory
 


Lol, obviously your dodgeing my question. Btw, you just had more than one question in your sentance, is this a double standard (see spinning is easy).

Seriously though, you've replied to other small points I made, but you obviously can't handle larger ones that take a little brain work (not much just a little) so your equivalent of intelligence must be rather low, or you are purposfully dodging questions (as I previously stated) because you know that you can't answer those questions and reply to thos epoints because it will flush you out to show us what you really believe in (I've stated before what that is).

So are you going to continue to dodge my what I've posted and confirm the obvious, are you going to spin some more and get caught in your own web or are you actually do the justice of replying to what I'd posted with what you truely believe?

-Jimmy




top topics



 
3
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join